If the Hawks win tonight does it guarantee BK and woody

[CWell]

Woody has earned an extension even if we don't win another game in this series.

he's done no such thing.He's still a horrible coach that should be let go.

[LL Cool Scott]

Nothing would surprise me from these owners. I could see them both getting lifetime extensions. I could see them both getting fired. I expect nothing but a terrible decision one way or another from the Spirit group.

[NDaATL]

I want them both gone, but will understand if Woodson gets resigned because of this series. Other bad coaches like Lawrence Frank, Eddie Jordan and Sam Mitchell have also been resigned because of a good season or playoff run.

[_BBIB_]

If Woodson and BK didn't suck so bad we wouldn't be playing Boston right now.

You can't possibly say BK sucks considering he has put together the most promising young roster in the Eastern Conference, 2nd to only the Blazers in the entire NBA

[_BBIB_]

-= original quote snipped =-



Just my opinion, but what BK gets questioned most for is Marvin and Marvin hasn't stepped up. There is still time, but it isn't looking good. If BK had confidence and vision in Josh and Josh then the upside of Marvin would have paled in comparison to the potential of landing a top flight PG. I think having the Joshes step up without Marvin doing likewise is actually hurting BK's case for retention.

YOur logic sucks

BK made MOVE to get JJ, Josh Smith, Bibby, and Law

Did Al Horford fall in our laps sure? BUt you need luck


Did not the Spurs need luck to get Ducan?
Bulls to land Jordan?
The list goes on.


Harping on the Marvin Williams hindsight pick ignoring the fact that BK has contructed the most talented young roster in the East is just holding a vendetta.

[HMFFL]

I'm expecting Billy Knight to be back another year. He doesn't have any first round picks to mess up and the players that he has put together are making him look fairly decent with the two wins against Boston. Many people on and offline are actually giving Billy some praise after the two victories. I guess they have yet to watch Chris Paul and Deron Williams during the playoffs.

Coach Woodson on the other hand may want to start packing his bags now. However, if we win another game or the series, I fully expect both back.

[_BBIB_]

I'm expecting Billy Knight to be back another year. He doesn't have any first round picks to mess up and the players that he has put together are making him look fairly decent with the two wins against Boston. Many people on and offline are actually giving Billy some praise after the two victories. I guess they have yet to watch Chris Paul and Deron Williams during the playoffs.

Coach Woodson on the other hand may want to start packing his bags now. However, if we win another game or the series, I fully expect both back.

Funny how people with an agenda always mention Deron and Chris Paul. Allows them to mention two guys in ONE draft.

A hindsight move at that.

BK's biggest mistake was reaching for Shelden Williams. The only clearcut bad move in foresight and BK has thus admit that mistake in a trade that has landed us a veteran PG.

With the fortune of landing Horford and the wheeling and dealing to land Law alongside all these other young players, it is beyond absurd to harp on a move that hardly looks like it can hinder us from being title contenders one day.

BK has added enough talented players on this team where we don't need an all-star at the PG position to win a championship nor do we need Marvin to be one in his place.


And honestly the funny thing is everyone ignores the potential of the rookie PG as they conventiently pretend that the position will forever be gaping hole

[HoopsGuru25]

I'm expecting Billy Knight to be back another year. He doesn't have any first round picks to mess up and the players that he has put together are making him look fairly decent with the two wins against Boston. Many people on and offline are actually giving Billy some praise after the two victories. I guess they have yet to watch Chris Paul and Deron Williams during the playoffs.

Coach Woodson on the other hand may want to start packing his bags now. However, if we win another game or the series, I fully expect both back.

I actually think it's the other way around. Woodson is the one who's name is being mentioned in the media. Woody is the one firing the crowd up,shaving his head,wearing that enormous championship ring, and giving the post game interviews. It's looking better and better for him everyday IMO.

I have yet to hear BK's name yet in these last two wins. The fact is that the Hawks are a 37 win team, and although BBIB is right about Shelden being his worst pick....BK is STILL known as the guy who passed on Chris Paul for Marvin Williams and that mistake looks even bigger now that both are playing on a national stage.

The good thing is that I don't see either way that both come back which is a start in the right direction. BK has basically thrown Woody under the bus and they no longer speak to each other. I would rather keep Woody if I had the choice. Any one arguing that BK needs to back is insane. The object of building a team is to build one good enough to win a championship and that is nearly impossible when you pick the wrong player as many times as BK has in the lottery. BK's 2006 off-season alone screwed the team by wasting the number 5 pick and wasting the capspace. BK built a team that has peaked at 37 after 5 years on the job. Any talk of an extension is a joke...he should be lucky he worked for owners who were dumb enough to keep him this long.

[parson]

I don't believe we can say BK "admitted his mistake" by trading for Bibby when he tried to trade for Calderon in the last offseason and was denied by the owners.

[Rip2137]

The reason I don't want D'Antoni are...

1. He plays an extremely tight rotation even in the regular season like Woody. With the talent the Suns have it's impossible not to win in the regular season if your top 7 players are that good.

2. An absolute garbage record despite having Marion/Amare/Joe the year before they got Nash. There record with Nash misses a game is complete garbage despite having two other all-stars and a very good supporting cast the last 4 years. There plus/minus differential when Nash is off the court is ALWAYS one of the highest in the league. I don't think the Suns would have been any worse with Mike Ivaroni as coach.

3. They've yet to win a series in which they didn't have home court. It doesn't say much but it does say that the Suns aren't overachieving.

1: I can see the other years making that argument, but he played Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Giri, Hill, Diaw, Amare, Shaq and sometimes Skinner in his rotation this year. Thats 9 guys. The guys not getting PT were DJ Strawberry, Eric Piakowski, Sean Marks, Linton Johnson and Alando Tucker. Who was supposed to play out of those guys?

2: He went 21-40 with a team with no point guard. They traded Marbury and Hardaway a few games into his tenure and a absolutely horrible Leandro Barbosa was the starting point. He also didn't have Amare. He missed 30 games that year. So you mean that he had a horrible record with Marion and Joe. I mean seriously, he was supposed to win with a starting front court of Jake Voskul and Jahadi White?

The plus minus differential is simple. there isn't a backup point guard there. The never has been. Marcus Banks and Barbosa are not back up points. Joe Johnson was the back up point the first year with Nash. There is a fall off because of the gigantic talent falloff. I am not saying Nash isn't a great player. I was saying he wasn't this great until Mike was around. I don't think that is coincidence.

Just like guys have their best years statistically when they come to the suns. People want to attribute that to Nash, but guys like Steven Hunter and Eddie House were barely on the floor with him. Its the offense and the system put in place by mike.

3: I would say going to the West finals (and probably winning it if not for Bells injury) without Amare and Kurt Thomas would be overachieveing. But maybe thats just me.

[conleyorbust]

Well, Nash certainly is that good. You can watch him and know it - he is probably the best shooter in the game right now and possibly the most creative passer since Magic. The point is that D'Antoni's system maximized the talents of guys like Nash, Marion, and Amare. Didn't make them as good as they were, just let them play to their strengths. Our offensive system occasionally plays to Joe's strengths but the rest of the team can suffer. Of course having a pg for a full season might help with that but I do think its time for a change - and unlike Phoenix we won't have to play a 4 time champion every season in the playoffs which is the real reason the Suns didn't win a championship (I'm not holding the season where they had Diaw play center against them - that season was a testament to the brilliance of Nash).

[HoopsGuru25]

Suns record w/o Nash in 4 years=4-13.

Nash's net +/- in 4 years. +15.8/+9.1/+18.0/+14.8

I also didn't include their awful record the year before w/o Nash. This another example of Rip automatically thinking good record=good coach. I'm sorry but if you have Amare/Marion/Barbosa/Bell/Diaw and suck that much w/o Nash then you probably aren't a good coach. We don't have a HOF pg,a big man who can score at will in the halfcourt or transition,or an insane amount of shooters like Phoenix does.

Karl would be a good hire if you want an uptempo coach. I don't think his attitude would be a good fit but in terms of coaching style and track record...he would be very high on my list. He has been successful on 3 different teams unlike D'Antoni. Denver plays EXACTLY like I've wanted Woodson to play for years. They are great at blocking shots,forcing turnovers,and just pushing the ball despite not having a great point guard(Miller was good but he's wasn't elite)or 4-5 outside shooters like Phoenix does.

[Rip2137]

I have never said good record = good coach. If that was the case, good coaches would never have bad records.

I am not arguing that the team is much better with Nash on the court. But i am also pointing at the fact that Nash wasn't a MVP player before he got to the Suns the second time. He was a decent NBA point guard that everyone laughed at Phoenix for overpaying when he signed that deal.

To ignore mikes effect on Nash's playing career is as silly as ignoring Nash's effect on the Suns. The Suns only have ONE point guard on the roster. When nash leaves, there is simply no one to run the point. Right now Mike Bibby and Acie Law are better than any other point guard they have in phoenix not named Nash.

Its not just about running, its how the Suns run. Anyone can sprint up court. And D'Antoni was still able to win 50+ games without the shooters that he has had in the past. they don't have 4-5 shooters. This year, only Nash and Bell could shoot threes in the starting lineup(much like only Joe and Bibby can i ours). Grant Hill is a midrange shooter(much like Marvin), Amare scores at the basket off of pick and rolls and face up moves with the occasional jumper (much like Smith) and Shaq...misses alot of freethrows and tries layups when he should be dunking the f-ing ball(sorry....still bitter). Horford can step out like Amare. It would fit his offense more.

No, it won't move as smoothly without Nash being his overdribbling self, but it would be ridiculously improved over what we have now.

and if you are arguing that having Giri and Barbosa as shooters off the bench means they have alot of shooters, Barbosa and Giri aren't any greater shooters than J-Rich and Salim.

[HoopsGuru25]

Rip...you do realize that Nash made the all-star team the year before signing with Phoenix right?

The facts just don't add up. D'Antonio is just not a good coach when he doesn't have a hall of fame PG run his offense. 4-13 is just awful. It isn't like the Cavs when they lose Lebron or when Minnesota used to lose Garnett. A supporting cast that good(including 2 all-stars) shouldn't just start sucking when they don't have a great point guard....especially considering that I'd Barbosa over some of the starting point guards in the NBA right now(and just about all of the backups).

I haven't seen anything to believe that Steve Nash isn't the reason why D'Antoni's "system" is so good. Therefore I don't want him coaching the Hawks.

[Rip2137]

But my point is that his HALL OF FAME point guard wouldn't have been able to sniff the Hall had he not played for D'Antoni. So I don't see how you can just stuff all the praise on Nash and say Mike is a bad coach.

Sure, Nash made the allstar team. Fine. He also was the guy that got pulled from games in the 4th quarter and was getting booed in Dallas. He was a good point guard in Dallas. He plays for Mike and he is a Hall of Famer. I think its a little silly to give him none of the credit here.

[HoopsGuru25]

Rip he is playing in a system better suited for his skills....but you called him a 'decent" point guard when he was a consensus top 5 point guard. Nash was a great shooter and a great passer LONG before he ever played for D'Antoni. He's just playing in the perfect system and with the perfect teammates(well before the dumb Shaq trade)to fully utilize those skills to the best of his ability. Bibby isn't going to become a great passer or become a more consistent shooter just because he's playing under a new coach. I will say it again...I don't want D'Antoni to coach the Hawks unless some one can show me evidence that Nash is the reason his system looks so good. It's not like he's a proven commodity who has run this system with different players.

[JoshB914]

I think CP3 is better than Nash. But there is no question that Nash is one of the great point guards (and overall players) in the league.

[_BBIB_]

BK's 2006 off-season alone screwed the team by wasting the number 5 pick and wasting the capspace. BK built a team that has peaked at 37 after 5 years on the job. Any talk of an extension is a joke...he should be lucky he worked for owners who were dumb enough to keep him this long.

Actually that Shelden move was made up for with the fortune we had of landing the 3rd pick.

If you think this team has "peaked" then I don't know what a team with potential looks like.

[HoopsGuru25]

Actually that Shelden move was made up for with the fortune we had of landing the 3rd pick.

I actually have no idea what you are talking about. How are Shelden and Horford connected in any way? It also just wasn't the awful Shelden pick that made it one of the worst off-seasons in NBA history. It's the fact that they had over $10 million dollars in cap space and used it on Speedy and Blo Wright. Billy Knight found a way to turn a very promising off-season into a complete debacle.

If you think this team has "peaked" then I don't know what a team with potential looks like.

lol-I'm saying that at the end of BK's contract,which was nearly 5 years....the team peaked at 37 wins. If you think he deserves an extension after that then you're crazy. It's almost as crazy as saying you wouldn't trade Acie Law and Marvin Williams for Chris Paul.

[_BBIB_]

If you think this team has "peaked" then I don't know what a team with potential looks like.

lol-I'm saying that at the end of BK's contract,which was nearly 5 years....the team peaked at 37 wins. If you think he deserves an extension after that then you're crazy. It's almost as crazy as saying you wouldn't trade Acie Law and Marvin Williams for Chris Paul.[/quote]

I thought you meant that this team had peaked at 37 wins. I thought you were out of your ever-loving mind (yes like I was when I made that assertion about Paul).

I think when you assess that we have the brightest young roster in the entire conference, and 2nd to Portland in the NBA, you can't fire the GM who assembled the team just because of a gaffe here and there.


With such a promising roster, one would assume the future doesn't look to bleak.