Josh and Bass

[Teffer10]

I know that everyone wants to keep Bass including me, but what could the combination of Bass and Josh net us if we decide to stick with Dirk and Kidd?

I know Josh's value has dropped but Bass' has vastly increased. Therefore, the package of those 2 could possibly land us another all-star caliber player to go with Dirk and Kidd.

Ideas???

[dirkforpres]

Bass is too underrated to trade right now. Dallas shouldnt look to trade him yet, because his value should continue to go up, not to mention he is one of our few young players we have on this team.

[Pointguard01]

Well if we are gonna try and contend, that is the package we try and trade, maybe along with Stackhouse to get salaries right.

Stack + Howard + Bass is about 17 million which should bring in a star hopefully.

[diesel50]

I know that everyone wants to keep Bass including me, but what could the combination of Bass and Josh net us if we decide to stick with Dirk and Kidd?

I know Josh's value has dropped but Bass' has vastly increased. Therefore, the package of those 2 could possibly land us another all-star caliber player to go with Dirk and Kidd.

Ideas???

What about Howard for Marvin Williams?

[theman]

Well if we are gonna try and contend, that is the package we try and trade, maybe along with Stackhouse to get salaries right.

Stack + Howard + Bass is about 17 million which should bring in a star hopefully.

Stackhouse is a free agent and I don't think many teams will want to do a sign and trade with him.

Maybe that package could land Vince Carter. That actually looks good for both sides.

How about Cat Mobley straight up for Howard? Cory Mags in a sign and trade?

Those three and a pick for Mike Redd?

[Teffer10]

Bass is too underrated to trade right now. Dallas shouldnt look to trade him yet, because his value should continue to go up, not to mention he is one of our few young players we have on this team.

I agree that Bass is underrated but still has tremendous value at .6m.

If the Mavs decide to make another attempt to ride Dirk and Kidd to a championship, Bass is the only bargaining chip that we have to procure
anyone who is even close to all star status. If we want guys like JO or Brand, we will need to offer up more than Howard and Stack.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Mavs trade Howard for Artest, and then Stack/George for VC.

Then sign Diop with some of the MLE.

Kidd/Terry
VC/Jones
Artest/Wright
Dirk/Bass
Damp/Diop

[Pointguard01]

Stackhouse is a free agent and I don't think many teams will want to do a sign and trade with him.

Wrong, Stackhouse has 2 yrs left on his contract. If you are looking at Hoopshype.com, they have it blank because they dont know the exact figures yet, but there is not a $0 in the blank like it would be if the contract expired.

[theman]

Wow. It good to once have been good.

[Captain_Obvious]

No interest to trade Bass. I'd want to hold on to the first Dirk backup that can actually produce behind or with Dirk in five years.

No need to make a firesale for Howard, he will be better the first ten games next season and we can trade him then. We are you all so eager to trade him on his all-time low value peak??

[bstein14]

Bass + Howard for Prince?

[Rand10]

Bass + Howard for Prince?

Howard > Prince, even with his recent struggles.

[bstein14]

-= original quote snipped =-


Howard > Prince, even with his recent struggles.

That's certainly debatable.

No one defended the SF position better this year than Prince (based on PPG below average).

Prince is stepping up for Detroit these playoffs scoring 17+ PPG shooting 63.9%.

Prince is the 4th option on team that is one of the slowest paced in the NBA.

I think if he was a #2 option on a team that runs the ball a little with Kidd at PG Prince would average 17-20 PPG.

[Teffer10]

No interest to trade Bass. I'd want to hold on to the first Dirk backup that can actually produce behind or with Dirk in five years.

No need to make a firesale for Howard, he will be better the first ten games next season and we can trade him then. We are you all so eager to trade him on his all-time low value peak??

If we don't include Bass in a trade, there is basically no way to improve this team unless we can get damn lucky by signing a good FA for the MLE.

It will be extremely difficult to improve in a Howard deal that doesn't include Bass. Maybe Stack and Josh for VC but I don't see where that is enough of an improvement.

Bass is a solid player for our future but then you have to look at where we will be in about 5 years when he is in his prime. If we are going to attempt to go after a championship with Dirk, it makes no sense to have someone that good playing behind him when he could help us get a player that could be a better complement to Dirk. If Dirk is on this team for 3 or more years, that means this FO has not committed to rebuilding which means that we will absolutely suck when Bass is in his prime.

Using the logic in your second paragraph, we should trade Bass why his value is at a high level. I would trade Josh too because his mindset is that of a person who needs to move on to another situation. I don't see his value increasing that much in the first few months of the season. Even if he is back to his old self, I don't see where it will be enough to land us an all star caliber player. Right now, Josh and Bass could get us a solid player to start the season with Dirk and Kidd. I don't want anymore of this crap coming from Dirk a few weeks before the playoffs about still trying to gel.

[Captain_Obvious]

If we don't include Bass in a trade, there is basically no way to improve this team unless we can get damn lucky by signing a good FA for the MLE.

It will be extremely difficult to improve in a Howard deal that doesn't include Bass. Maybe Stack and Josh for VC but I don't see where that is enough of an improvement.

Bass is a solid player for our future but then you have to look at where we will be in about 5 years when he is in his prime. If we are going to attempt to go after a championship with Dirk, it makes no sense to have someone that good playing behind him when he could help us get a player that could be a better complement to Dirk. If Dirk is on this team for 3 or more years, that means this FO has not committed to rebuilding which means that we will absolutely suck when Bass is in his prime.

Using the logic in your second paragraph, we should trade Bass why his value is at a high level. I would trade Josh too because his mindset is that of a person who needs to move on to another situation. I don't see his value increasing that much in the first few months of the season. Even if he is back to his old self, I don't see where it will be enough to land us an all star caliber player. Right now, Josh and Bass could get us a solid player to start the season with Dirk and Kidd. I don't want anymore of this crap coming from Dirk a few weeks before the playoffs about still trying to gel.

Recently i read through a mock draft list and i saw at least 4 or 5 Cs in the top 30. All building/rebuilding teams out there rather draft a C prospect than develope a 6-8 PF, and they sure as hell dont give us their C prospect for Brandon. So i think his worth is a late first in this draft. He has more value for winning teams, but will they give us pieces that make us better? Will we trade with a possible contender?
I really dont think Brandon is much more than a throw in for the teams we want to trade with. He's more that guy that evens out the depth chart so you dont have any holes behind your main PF or C - he's no starting caliber player in this league.
But Bass is exactly what this team needs, theres no way we can get a guy even remotely close to his skillset. And his skillset, not his talentlevel, is what makes him so valueable for this team. He's no prospect for this team, he's become an integral part of it.

Which leads me to another knock on Brandon. I dont see him improving that much. I cant think of many areas he can improve in outside of passing and post moves. But maybe thats just me.

So i disagree when you say we can improve by moving Bass, trading Bass will generate more holes, not only depthwise but also skillwise, that will offset any improvement at SG or SF. Any team that'll trade with us will do it to get Josh and/or an expiring. The only rational behind them demanding Bass is to package him in a trade with a contender later that season to aquire a draft pick. Thus this has a high possibility of biting us in our very own ass.
Plus, including Bass to Howard and Filler (Terry or Stack) for one max player will destroy any depth we have left after the Kidd trade.
We cant affort a 3 for 1 trade or sth on the line, we need a 1-2 trade.(I dont see Stack as a player anymore, hes useless)

My approach would be to build a bench around Bass and Terry. We need a quick 7-footer with blocking abilities - Diop?. We need an athletic shlashing SF - Reyshawn?. We need another shooter off the bench - JR Smith?. Use Josh and Stack to build a backcourt around Kidd.

I prefer Miller and Artest. Is it possible? Probably not. Maybe we just need two premium shooters as we'll build our backcourt around Kidd. After all we always were a jumpshooting team, we can as well concentrate on improving what made us strong in the past (and weak in the recent playoffs). And i think Josh has enough value left to accomplish that.

PS: Im sorry if this post isnt directed fully at your original post or doesnt answer some questions/statements you built. I was just writing down my opinion and saw no way of fitting it in your post or even rearranging your post afterwards to make sense within.

[arkuo]

-= original quote snipped =-



That's certainly debatable.

No one defended the SF position better this year than Prince (based on PPG below average).

Prince is stepping up for Detroit these playoffs scoring 17+ PPG shooting 63.9%.

Prince is the 4th option on team that is one of the slowest paced in the NBA.

I think if he was a #2 option on a team that runs the ball a little with Kidd at PG Prince would average 17-20 PPG.

if prince was the best in defending small forwards, then why would you even think of trading him away?

bass would be like maxiell anyway.... unless detroit has plans to let go of maxiell somewhere...

[bstein14]

-= original quote snipped =-



if prince was the best in defending small forwards, then why would you even think of trading him away?

bass would be like maxiell anyway.... unless detroit has plans to let go of maxiell somewhere...

After last year's playoffs, I think that 99% of Pistons fans would have traded Prince for Josh Howard.

Prince has even admitted that Lebron is the hardest player in the NBA for him to guard, even harder than Kobe who he can use his length on. While I may think that Prince can defend Kobe, Manu, or Peja better than Howard, I think Howard may be able to do more against Lebron.

Howard is more physical than Prince, and perhaps could do a better job against a player who the Pistons will undoubtedly play against in the playoffs many times in the next decade.

That said, after the first round and seeing Prince defend Iggy so well, and score so efficiently (60+%).... and seeing Howard play so poorly it would be a tough decision to trade Prince for Howard straight up. That said, adding a good young player like Bass(who himself would probably catch a late lotto or pick 13-15) would make this a hard trade for Dumars to turn down.

[Harry Heinous]

Josh Howard dropped off in a big way 3/5 into the season.

And what's this I hear about him admitting to smoking bud in the offseason?
funny and totally out of left-field for me if that's true.

[Teffer10]

If we don't include Bass in a trade, there is basically no way to improve this team unless we can get damn lucky by signing a good FA for the MLE.

It will be extremely difficult to improve in a Howard deal that doesn't include Bass. Maybe Stack and Josh for VC but I don't see where that is enough of an improvement.

Bass is a solid player for our future but then you have to look at where we will be in about 5 years when he is in his prime. If we are going to attempt to go after a championship with Dirk, it makes no sense to have someone that good playing behind him when he could help us get a player that could be a better complement to Dirk. If Dirk is on this team for 3 or more years, that means this FO has not committed to rebuilding which means that we will absolutely suck when Bass is in his prime.

Using the logic in your second paragraph, we should trade Bass why his value is at a high level. I would trade Josh too because his mindset is that of a person who needs to move on to another situation. I don't see his value increasing that much in the first few months of the season. Even if he is back to his old self, I don't see where it will be enough to land us an all star caliber player. Right now, Josh and Bass could get us a solid player to start the season with Dirk and Kidd. I don't want anymore of this crap coming from Dirk a few weeks before the playoffs about still trying to gel.

Recently i read through a mock draft list and i saw at least 4 or 5 Cs in the top 30. All building/rebuilding teams out there rather draft a C prospect than develope a 6-8 PF, and they sure as hell dont give us their C prospect for Brandon. So i think his worth is a late first in this draft. He has more value for winning teams, but will they give us pieces that make us better? Will we trade with a possible contender?
I really dont think Brandon is much more than a throw in for the teams we want to trade with. He's more that guy that evens out the depth chart so you dont have any holes behind your main PF or C - he's no starting caliber player in this league.
But Bass is exactly what this team needs, theres no way we can get a guy even remotely close to his skillset. And his skillset, not his talentlevel, is what makes him so valueable for this team. He's no prospect for this team, he's become an integral part of it.

Which leads me to another knock on Brandon. I dont see him improving that much. I cant think of many areas he can improve in outside of passing and post moves. But maybe thats just me.

So i disagree when you say we can improve by moving Bass, trading Bass will generate more holes, not only depthwise but also skillwise, that will offset any improvement at SG or SF. Any team that'll trade with us will do it to get Josh and/or an expiring. The only rational behind them demanding Bass is to package him in a trade with a contender later that season to aquire a draft pick. Thus this has a high possibility of biting us in our very own ass.
Plus, including Bass to Howard and Filler (Terry or Stack) for one max player will destroy any depth we have left after the Kidd trade.
We cant affort a 3 for 1 trade or sth on the line, we need a 1-2 trade.(I dont see Stack as a player anymore, hes useless)

My approach would be to build a bench around Bass and Terry. We need a quick 7-footer with blocking abilities - Diop?. We need an athletic shlashing SF - Reyshawn?. We need another shooter off the bench - JR Smith?. Use Josh and Stack to build a backcourt around Kidd.

I prefer Miller and Artest. Is it possible? Probably not. Maybe we just need two premium shooters as we'll build our backcourt around Kidd. After all we always were a jumpshooting team, we can as well concentrate on improving what made us strong in the past (and weak in the recent playoffs). And i think Josh has enough value left to accomplish that.

PS: Im sorry if this post isnt directed fully at your original post or doesnt answer some questions/statements you built. I was just writing down my opinion and saw no way of fitting it in your post or even rearranging your post afterwards to make sense within.

You make a lot of sense and most of this is tough to argue. I do still disagree a bit on your thoughts of Bass. I agree that he is probably about as good as he will ever be. However, I think he is a bit overhyped now and with that small salary, he could be very valuable as some trade bait for us. Yes, probably a throw-in in a Josh deal but if that could land us a player like Brand I could probably live with some holes on the bench. Not likely that LA would let Brand go for that package, but if it was available Cuban should do it in a minute.

I'm just afraid that Dirk and Kidd are not enough star power to take us all the way. I don't see Josh's value there to help us improve. Bass is probably my favorite player now but like you, I think he has a fairly limited ceiling on developing into anything special.

I say that we use his success in the POs as leverage to land a bigger fish.
My ultimate wish is that we trade Dirk and Josh to begin the rebuild process. I don't think I can handle several more years of this stinking Euro ball crap that makes us incredibly soft and lazy for extended periods of a game. Don't get me wrong, I love Dirk and what he has done, but he is too influential to everyone on this team and seems to turn everyone into lazy jump shooters (e.g. Howard, Finley, George, and now even Bass).

[JES12]

We should trade niether because:

Bass: Undervalued around the league
Howard: is at an all time low and I want to see him with a new coach first (he tuned Avery out months ago)

That is, of course, unless we get an offer we can't refuse.

And LOL out Howard + Bass + Capspace (Stack's expiring since only 2 mil guaranteed in 2009-10) for Vince Carter.

That dude is an idiot. Carter and Kidd don't mesh; Carter and Harris do. Even before Kidd, with age and injury, I would only give capspace and a late 1st rounder for Carter before his Harris rejuvination.