Raptors Fan Here..

[Smills91]

Ford is to injury prone he is not woth the risk !

I do not understand why some of you want him as bad as you do ?
He would be a great addition to our team if he was not injury prone so bad he just came off of one of the harsher type of injuries you can have for an nba player !

I dont see us trading for any of their point guards at all .

trading salmons,williams & a 2nd rounder is way,way to much for him

Petrie is easily a top 1-5 GM in the leauge but if he did that deal i would start a petition to have him fired !

lol

The evolution of basketball, SPEED KILLS. Martin is extremely effective because he's quicker/faster than nearly EVERY 2 guard in the league. Same can be said of salmons amongst SF's. If you add TJ Ford at PG then the same can be said of him at the 1. That gives us 3 guys who are probably in the top 3 quickest/faster guys at their respective positions. That screams fast breaking. Easy transition points etc. That's the way basketball is headed. It's becoming a game of speed. SPEED KILLS. If we cold land Speights/Arthur with a pick at the 4 that only adds to that fact. If 3/5's to 4/5's of your starters are fast/quick this tactic can be effective. Add a couple guys off the bench in this manner as well and match in some post offense/defense and you got a VERY effective team.

I mean there are only so many Tim Duncan's in the league that you can anchor your offense AND defense around, and since we don't have one, this is probably the next best tactic. Speed, Shooting, getting to the foul line. That's the game plan.

[dozencousins]

Smills your statement has alot of truth to that but the bottom line is the deal you suggested

1. is giving up way to much !
2. with fords situation of his recent injury and being injury prone is simply not worth the risk.

i would not do that deal

[Smills91]

Smills your statement has alot of truth to that but the bottom line is the deal you suggested

1. is giving up way to much !
2. with fords situation of his recent injury and being injury prone is simply not worth the risk.

i would not do that deal

Which deal are you referring to?

I wouldn't trade Ron for anything less than Ford/1st. Bare bones minimum for me. And I only do that because the Raptors are out East(a LOT to be said for that.)

The Teams that I see interested in Ron are these: In no particular order -

Suns
Raptors
Mavs
Bucks
Blazers(I think you all overrate the 'character' card here)
Nuggets
Warriors
Rockets
Heat


I see some teams as potential maybe's as well:
Pistons
Hornets
Celtics

I think there is going to be a lot of demand for Ron from teams that ended their season in a disappointed fashion. He's a legit 2 way star and their is a premium on GREAT perimeter defenders and Ron is one that can be had on a reasonable salary - thus making a deal feasible in terms of matching salaries.

[dozencousins]

1st i would not trade artest for ford !

like i said ford is not worth the risk with his injury prone situation

i was reffering to the deal you mentioned earlier

salmons,williams and a 2nd for ford

again ford is not worth the risk if we were talking about possibly another point guard talent or power forward talent then i would be more in agreement

i dont see us doing a deal for any raptors point guards

[Smills91]

1st i would not trade artest for ford !

like i said ford is not worth the risk with his injury prone situation

i was reffering to the deal you mentioned earlier

salmons,williams and a 2nd for ford

again ford is not worth the risk if we were talking about possibly another point guard talent or power forward talent then i would be more in agreement

i dont see us doing a deal for any raptors point guards

I'm okay with Ford/1st and Calderon/1st for Artest if we decide to move artest, which could happen. Ideally, I'd like to keep Artest, draft Westbrook at #12 and deal Salmons/Williams for another mid first rounder to snag Speights/Arthur.

[sackings916]

I'd do Artest for Calderon straight up, but im just not a fan of Ford;s game. Smills I agree that that speed lineup is tempting, but Ford's speed will be offset a little by his inability to hit outside shots. The only Ford/Artest deal I'd do is Artest/Thomas or SAR for Ford/1st/expirings.

[Smills91]

I'd do Artest for Calderon straight up, but im just not a fan of Ford;s game. Smills I agree that that speed lineup is tempting, but Ford's speed will be offset a little by his inability to hit outside shots. The only Ford/Artest deal I'd do is Artest/Thomas or SAR for Ford/1st/expirings.

At this juncture, I think Kenny and his deal are basically an asset. There is probably no trade out there worth moving Kenny for. Basically because he devalues any trade. I'd just rather keep him and stock pile ASSETS now, that way when we have 30 million in expirings we can use the ASSETS WITH the expirings to make a blockbuster trade(which is potentially 1 year away or so).

I think Ford's ability to penetrate, Martin and Garcia bombing away from downtown and even Hawes ability to hit the J would actually be a really good line-up. While I prefer Calderon, I do think Toronto moves Ford and re-signs Calderon.

Ford is still a really good PG. And he does have the injury risk. So IMO that offsets any "artest is nuts" arguments. Meaning we should be able to ask for full value for Artest since they both come with their own set of risks.

[longfellow44]

^^^Smills you and I agree perfectly on this one.

I think Ford would make our team very sexy. Trading with Toronto would really allow us to get the value we need out of Artest, not only because of a possible injury concern with TJ but also how much they need a player like Artest. It also helps because they are in the east so it won't hurt as much to trade Artest there.

However to do an Artest for Ford swap Toronto really has to include a pick weather it's this years or next years a pick has to be included because of the talent disparity.

I would love to somehow get around Ford's BYC status so we could get the pick this year.

Kings draft
#12 Westbrook
#17 Speights

Ford/Westbrook
Martin/Douby
Salmons/Garcia
Shelden/Speights/Moore/SAR/KT
Miller/Hawes

Westbrook could be our version of Monta Ellis who we could put in to be a great defender and he would be insurace against fords Injury concerns. Speights could be groomed as a Amare clone.

This team is imediately more productive because we have maximized our talent by spreading our talent to positions of need. We also secure our future and compete right now. I think this lineup is good enough to be in the playoffs.

[BMiller52]

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The evolution of basketball, SPEED KILLS. Martin is extremely effective because he's quicker/faster than nearly EVERY 2 guard in the league. Same can be said of salmons amongst SF's. If you add TJ Ford at PG then the same can be said of him at the 1. That gives us 3 guys who are probably in the top 3 quickest/faster guys at their respective positions. That screams fast breaking. Easy transition points etc. That's the way basketball is headed. It's becoming a game of speed. SPEED KILLS. If we cold land Speights/Arthur with a pick at the 4 that only adds to that fact. If 3/5's to 4/5's of your starters are fast/quick this tactic can be effective. Add a couple guys off the bench in this manner as well and match in some post offense/defense and you got a VERY effective team.

I mean there are only so many Tim Duncan's in the league that you can anchor your offense AND defense around, and since we don't have one, this is probably the next best tactic. Speed, Shooting, getting to the foul line. That's the game plan.

I would start Garcia over Salmons but lets say we dealt Artest to TO for Ford/1st. Draft Alex Ajinca from France(Tyson Chandler clone).

Ford/Martin/Cisco/Artthur/Hawes is a badass line up dude. With Martin on 1 side and Garcia on the other, Hawes in the post, Arthur at the FT line(Hawes/Arthur are actually interchangeable there but Arthur's quicker at rolling to the basket and Hawes is bigger so...) Ford would be able to have all the room in the world to make things happen. He'd be able to pick&pop/roll with Arthur, drive and kick to Martin and Cisco, and feed Hawes in the post. We'd also be sick at running with Ford's speed and passing ability. He'd be throwing alley oops to Martin and Arthur or he could throw it to Cisco spotting up at the 3 point line. He'd also be better at keeping up with the quick PGs like Paul and Parker. I'm not a guy who wants to trade Ron but I'm a big fan of Ford too so if we got a pick I think I'd be ok with it.

[pillwenney]

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I would start Garcia over Salmons

Good God, why? I mean I guess I would understand with the lineup fitting, but still, you're talking about a guy who is arguably better off the bench (Cisco), and a guy who is literally probably about twice as good starting (Salmons), and you want to switch that around?

[dozencousins]

smills i think your logic of us dealing a player like artest or salmons for a draft pick is possible more so if it were artest at this point if he does excersise his 8.4 million dollar option for a player of his caliber it is considered cheap by nba standards and with it being the final year in his contract it would be very tempting for a contender to make a run for him !

Keep in mind this saying that accountants use

(assetts minus liabilities equals owners equity )
it is a very true statement !

we have some great talent on our team right now but the main problem is our point guard position has little depth and the verdict on beno is not fully out yet !
our power forward position in my opinion is the weakest as i see hawes as more of a center than a power forward and i see sheldon as a good back up nothing more at this point ! all our other bigmen are old,broken down with injuries and in k9's situation he flat out sucks !

The theory you have at this point about k9 & reef being assets is not correct in this case both hold little if no trade value reef has more value than k9 !

The only chance we have to move them is with artest or b.miller in a deal with either or to buy them out and in reefs situation on the very slim chance he retires !

The only way reef and or k9 become a true assett is at the end of this coming season if either are still with the kings as in that case they will be in the final year of their contracts along with b.miller and m.moore those expirings could either save us around a total of 30 million off the books for free agents etc. or in trade of getting some great talent that teams are looking to move for whatever the reason is !

I pray we get as lucky as portland and seatlle did in last years draft being around the 10th -14th expected draft slots and both moving into the top 3 getting the 1 or 2 pick.

We have been lucky 1 time to get the top pick and we took
(nervous pervis ellison) TALK ABOUT BAD LUCK !

I hope fate is finally on our side for once

[BMiller52]

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Good God, why? I mean I guess I would understand with the lineup fitting, but still, you're talking about a guy who is arguably better off the bench (Cisco), and a guy who is literally probably about twice as good starting (Salmons), and you want to switch that around?

Salmons would stop the ball movement and I dunno if he is a good fit with Ford. They're both slashers a lot more than shooters. Cisco fits much better IMO.

[Smills91]

I'm not saying Kenny or Reef are Assets, NOW. I'm saying their worth more as potential assets in just ONE year that it's not worth taking a dive in returned value for our CURRENT assets. The opportunity cost of moving Kenny/Reef WITH a current asset is greater than getting a return that nets us future assets that we may potentially be able to sell in one year when Keeny/Reef/BMiller/Mikki all come off the books to create 30+ million.

So we're better off just letting the 'sunk' cost take effect NOW for one year, roll with the punches and THEN look to deal in one short year when they go from liabilities into assets.

[dozencousins]

smills

thats what i was saying !

i guess i simply misunderstood you i was reading it as if you were saying the opposite !

i guess great minds think alike !

keep posting i read peoples from time to time though i disagree with you at times i do however tend to agree with you more than not !

talk to you soon .....

[Smills91]

smills

thats what i was saying !

i guess i simply misunderstood you i was reading it as if you were saying the opposite !

i guess great minds think alike !

keep posting i read peoples from time to time though i disagree with you at times i do however tend to agree with you more than not !

talk to you soon .....

we go from this:


to this:

[deanx]

i think u guys are overrated artest's value. at the deadline artest almost got traded to the spurs for 2 first rounders, barry and elson, and thats low low first rounders.

[Smills91]

i think u guys are overrated artest's value. at the deadline artest almost got traded to the spurs for 2 first rounders, barry and elson, and thats low low first rounders.

How can you even say that?
1) He was NOT traded, therefore that package IS NOT and WILL NOT be sufficient

2) Of ALL the rumors out there, that one was never remotely considered one of serious consideration by REPORTS from the media.

3) Since when did TJ Ford become some marvelous commodity that teams are willing to give up their BEST player for with a mid-late first?

4) Your post is an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

[dozencousins]

LOL

smills that was a funny message !

anyways so you know i see miller getting traded to 1 of 3 teams in the off season 1 of those will be no suprise but the other 2 are somewhat unexpected i believe mark my words you heard it here 1st

miller will get dealt to either

1. indiana (no suprise )
2. detroit
or
3. the knicks

mark it down right now bdgking said it 1st !

[deanx]

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How can you even say that?
1) He was NOT traded, therefore that package IS NOT and WILL NOT be sufficient

2) Of ALL the rumors out there, that one was never remotely considered one of serious consideration by REPORTS from the media.

3) Since when did TJ Ford become some marvelous commodity that teams are willing to give up their BEST player for with a mid-late first?

4) Your post is an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

i'm quite aware he was not trade, hence i said almost. but it is likely they were close, so the value would have been close too. Although not enough, the considerations given were close.

i didn't even talk about tj, i am just talking about artest's value. And I am quite aware of his problems, considering I followed his news for fantasy basketball such as not feeding the dog, domestic problem with his wife/gf and her throwing a pan at his car, and his constant random missing games.

[KingInExile]

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i'm quite aware he was not trade, hence i said almost. but it is likely they were close, so the value would have been close too. Although not enough, the considerations given were close.

It always cracks me up when people think they can speak with so much authority about what "almost" happened, especially when it is in response to being reminded that a deal did not go down.

i didn't even talk about tj, i am just talking about artest's value. And I am quite aware of his problems, considering I followed his news for fantasy basketball such as not feeding the dog, domestic problem with his wife/gf and her throwing a pan at his car, and his constant random missing games.

Yup...I guess this should make you an all-knowing expert on Artest...even more of an expert than people who actually follow the team on a day-to-day basis.