The End of an Era for the Mavs and Suns?

HarlemHeat37 · Post #41 » by **HarlemHeat37** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:21 am

criticism for "being rude" is overrated..

it's just trash talking..

most of us don't know each other..we aren't talking about each others families..it's nothing personal..

it's talking bad about players and teams that we like and enjoy watching..our teams and our players give us the good and the bad..we gloat about the good, and we are embarrassed with the bad..so I don't see any reason why fans of other teams or players can't have negative(or positive) comments about our favorite players and teams..

again, most of us don't know each other..it's a message board..a message board isn't as fun if you don't get passionate responses, whether they are written in a nice way, or filled with hate..

Ballings7 · Post #42 » by **Ballings7** » Fri May 2, 2008 2:30 am

BBallFreak wrote:Sorry man, but with all the crap I've taken from Mavs fans since that Finals trip (during and after), I'm having a hard time feeling the sympathy, ya know?

I don't blame you.

That "fluke", "Dallas choked = Miami win", and "Dallas was the better team" stuff was/is garbage.

T-Spot · Post #43 » by **T-Spot** » Fri May 2, 2008 2:42 am

The Suns are still perennial contenders. Seriously, how the heck are they done? Do you guys know nothing about basketball?

Proof? Giricek is thinking of resigning.

edfmx86 · Post #44 » by **edfmx86** » Fri May 2, 2008 2:56 am

Suns Mavericks are out, Jazz and Hornets are in

i think the Lakers and Spurs have another couple of years in them but they fall, Jazz and Hornets will rule the west in front of the Blazers and Sonics

psyclone1982 · Post #45 » by **psyclone1982** » Fri May 2, 2008 2:57 am

We need some changes because the fact of the matter is while San Antonio is getting older we are getting older faster, we have one more year left with Shaq, Nash hasn't started to decline as of yet, once gain his numbers improved so he will still have at least one more good year in him, Grant Hill, well, who knows.

So we can't sit here and say, We'll be right, because our team can't beat San Antonio as it is, we need something, but we don't really have anything we can give to get something.

Maybe a barbossa trade or the #15 like was mentioned earlier, without a change somewhere, we are done yes, because Hill / Shaq are 1 year off being done, and this team couldnt take San Antonio past 5 games.

jourdy · Post #46 » by **jourdy** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:03 am

Ballings7 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I don't blame you.

That "fluke", "Dallas choked = Miami win", and "Dallas was the better team" stuff was/is garbage.

Except for the fact that majority of those who said that aren't even Mavericks fans. IIRC, most were Lakers fans, Cavs fans, Pistons fans, and yes, even Spurts fans. Dallas fans' main gripe was about Wade and the FT thing, but that's a different story altogether.

Ballings7 · Post #47 » by **Ballings7** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:16 am

It was a general statement, but that's good there weren't many Mavs fans being like that.

YiYaoYue · Post #48 » by **YiYaoYue** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:55 am

dallas and suns should do a trade... the youth + expirings of one team (except their best players) for future picks and veterans of the other team. One team choose to go for the youth movement and the other team go for the championship next year with all the oldies.

Anticon · Post #49 » by **Anticon** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:20 am

Rerisen wrote:Mavs are out, Suns are out, Toronto is out.

They all lost to teams with traditional bigs who rebound and defend.

The Suns have Shaq.

The Mavs have Dampier. He at least is intended to be a traditional big.

The Raptors I agree.

But I think the uniqueness of the Suns and Mavs roster is overrated, especially if you make it seem intentional. I'm sure the Mavs or Suns (or the Raptors for that matter) would love to have Duncan or Howard.

It's just not easy to get a guy like that.

LAKESHOW · Post #50 » by **LAKESHOW** » Fri May 2, 2008 5:23 am

they are done! and for all their trashing talking, especially the suns, weve got some payback once this new regime of winning starts hittin full steam.

Chubby Chaser · Post #51 » by **Chubby Chaser** » Fri May 2, 2008 6:32 am

The end of these two franchises proves two things:

1) The Run & Gun euro type system does not win championships. It is entertaining, and can get you 60 wins in the regular season. But once you play a disciplined half court system in the playoffs. You are always going to lose without being able to slow it down and play half court.

2) Transitioning your Run & Gun built team to a half court team is not as easy as changing coaches or making one trade. You have to completely rebuild the team's personnel to match the half court system. Half a$$ing it by acquiring Shaq mid season, or implementing Avery but still having a player like Dirk (who's game is meant for transition offense and wide open shots) as your primary offense doesn't work. Then they acquire Kid, but still stick to the half court schemes from Avery. These two teams tried to have it both way, which won't work. They have to completely but into it and rebuild personnel to match the system.

Post #52 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Fri May 2, 2008 7:10 am

^^ Wrong, Phoenix's problem hasn't been offense ever, just when both teams need a key stop, you know for sure Phoenix wasn't going to make it.

Ballings7 · Post #53 » by **Ballings7** » Fri May 2, 2008 10:09 am

Obviously Phoenix is a quality offensive team for what they do. But I think they have been/are lacking in ways there, in that they aren't quite versatile enough as a team, and rely too much on Nash to get things going well.

Since Joe Johnson left, they haven't had that 2nd legitimate creative offensive guy on the wings. To really help take responsibility off of Nash. Hill was definitely better than expected, but still it wasn't at the level of what is needed, especially at his age, and being an injury concern. They've also never had a true-type back-up PG for Nash. Barbosa's an undersized scoring guard with limited play-making ability.

Also specifically this season, the Suns became noticably less of a three PT shooting team, as far as strength and depth of shooters, especially after the Shaq trade. Compared to past seasons. 06-07 this lessening began suttlely and not too much, still having a good group of shooters, but it was not as good as 06 and 05.

They can and definitely do need to become more expanded offensively. As well as get that strong 3PT shooting back like it used to be.

Post #54 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri May 2, 2008 10:34 am

jourdy wrote:Except for the fact that majority of those who said that aren't even Mavericks fans. IIRC, most were Lakers fans, Cavs fans, Pistons fans, and yes, even Spurts fans. Dallas fans' main gripe was about Wade and the FT thing, but that's a different story altogether.

Wow, no.

Your owner was planning a parade route after the second game, your best player threw a ball up into the stands which hit (and incidentally killed) an old man who came to watch a game, kicked an exercise bike, and your fans were screaming about timeouts being called, how it was your series to lose, how Miami didn't beat Dallas as much as Dallas beat Dallas, and how "teh refs!!!11!!!!!1!!" screwed over your team (never mind Dirk, a jump shooter, breaking records in the FT department the series before. That somehow didn't matter).

Over the past two seasons, I have watched the Mavs lose twice in the first round. It proves, very succinctly and in no uncertain terms, that Miami's win was no fluke and that Miami was the better team for the simple fact that they had the cajones to actually step up and win the series.

It's vindication and karmic retribution, as far as I'm concerned. You'll be back, but hopefully you'll be better sports the next time around...

durden_tyler · Post #55 » by **durden_tyler** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:02 am

No for the Suns. One year left for Nash, Suns and a prime Stoudemire. Just a few moves here and there in the offseason and they'll be among the contenders once again next year...

jourdy · Post #56 » by **jourdy** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:14 am

We are talking about fans, not the team.
Mavs fans were not saying the team choked instead of the Heat playing better. If you think about it, choking is a lot worse than being beat by a good team, so why would any sane Mavs fan say the team choked?

Like I said, most Mavs fans' main gripe are Wade's FTs. Dirk and Wade are both great at drawing fouls, there's no one denying that. For many people, the problem lies with Wade getting the call at crucial moments (game 5 end game, game 6 forearm to Dirk end game), and a FEW phantom fouls.

Dirk kicking a bike, Josh Howard calling a timeout, or Dirk throwing a ball at the stands have nothing to do with what we are talking about, nor sportsmanship.

The only thing I see that can be considered "foul" was Dirk saying that he thought they were the better team, but when Dwyane found offense on that, Dirk took it back and gave props to Wade for a great series. (maybe you haven't read that?) It is unfair because when Dirk makes his opinions known, he gets blasted for it. yet when he says politically correct things (example - his comments on facing LA 1st round), he also gets blasted for it.

I seriously think you're making a big deal out of it, I don't know. Maybe you did get irritated when a lot of fans bashed on the championship (IMO typical fan - denial stage). If so, I respect that. I think everyone agrees Miami won that title. No one's going to take that away.

Post #57 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:27 am

jourdy wrote:We are talking about fans, not the team.
Mavs fans were not saying the team choked instead of the Heat playing better. If you think about it, choking is a lot worse than being beat by a good team, so why would any sane Mavs fan say the team choked?

Like I said, most Mavs fans' main gripe are Wade's FTs. Dirk and Wade are both great at drawing fouls, there's no one denying that. For many people, the problem lies with Wade getting the call at crucial moments (game 5 end game, game 6 forearm to Dirk end game), and a FEW phantom fouls.

Dirk kicking a bike, Josh Howard calling a timeout, or Dirk throwing a ball at the stands have nothing to do with what we are talking about, nor sportsmanship.

The only thing I see that can be considered "foul" was Dirk saying that he thought they were the better team, but when Dwyane found offense on that, Dirk took it back and gave props to Wade for a great series. (maybe you haven't read that?) It is unfair because when Dirk makes his opinions known, he gets blasted for it. yet when he says politically correct things (example - his comments on facing LA 1st round), he also gets blasted for it.

I seriously think you're making a big deal out of it, I don't know. Maybe you did get irritated when a lot of fans bashed on the championship (IMO typical fan - denial stage). If so, I respect that. I think everyone agrees Miami won that title. No one's going to take that away.

Of course we're talking about the fans. That's what I was complaining about, and they whined endlessly about the refs and how they got robbed because they were the better team. BS.

Forgive me in reveling in this, but nothing changes. A vast majority of Mavs fans on this board were absolutely obnoxious about it. I stand by my joy in their demise. I'm just hoping that, when they come back, their fans will display a bit more class. Losing builds character...

ILikeTheGrizz · Post #58 » by **ILikeTheGrizz** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:43 am

jourdy wrote:We are talking about fans, not the team.
Mavs fans were not saying the team choked instead of the Heat playing better. If you think about it, choking is a lot worse than being beat by a good team, so why would any sane Mavs fan say the team choked?

Saying your team just choked allows you to say that your team is still actually better than the team they lost to, which is really the name of the game. People don't like to cheer for teams because they win, they like to cheer for them because they're better, winning is just 'proof' of that. Choking to an inferior team means your team is still superior than them.

If you don't believe me, talk to anyone from Manhatten or the Bronx. They don't need to watch every Yankees game or even most- they honestly enjoy telling you how their team is the gold standard for historical North American team success in sports more than they enjoy watching most of the games.

jourdy · Post #59 » by **jourdy** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:56 am

ILikeTheGrizz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Saying your team just choked allows you to say that your team is still actually better than the team they lost to, which is really the name of the game. People don't like to cheer for teams because they win, they like to cheer for them because they're better, winning is just 'proof' of that. Choking to an inferior team means your team is still superior than them.

If you don't believe me, talk to anyone from Manhatten or the Bronx. They don't need to watch every Yankees game or even most- they honestly enjoy telling you how their team is the gold standard for historical North American team success in sports more than they enjoy watching most of the games.

Okay, I believe you.

Probably only me, but I'd rather be beat by a better team than be a better team that choked. Cultural difference? Maybe.

The End of an Era for the Mavs and Suns?

Is this the End of an Era for the Mavs and Suns?