Who wants to defend the Shaq trade now?

grantlongforpresident · Post #1 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:29 am

The whole "they weren't going to win with Marion anyway" argument never convinced me.

Many of the pundits loved this trade... but the talking heads were wrong. 7 of 10 experts on espn picked PHX over SA.

Shaq is an anvil around the neck of PHX for two more seasons. Phoenix had something going and they traded their best defender and rebounder for what's-left-of-Shaq. Shaq is slow, injury prone, and can't make a foul shot. Riley robbed Kerr.

There was not another team in the NBA that makes mores sense for Marion and less sense for Shaq than Phoenix.

In fact - i proclaim Kerr the worst GM of 2008 besides Chris Wallace. He mortgaged the future for a worse present. That is stupid.

Ed Pinkney · Post #2 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:31 am

Did you notice what happened to Amare's game after the trade. I say give it one more season with some minor roster changes and a new coach and see what happens.

PPAW4Life · Post #3 » by **PPAW4Life** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:34 am

From all accounts Marion made the Suns locker room lifeless and uninspired. Frankly, the Suns were no longer the Suns that we were used to and they weren't going to get past the likes of the Spurs or the Lakers as they were constituted.

The Shaq trade definitely took longer to work it self out than anticipated but the Suns were rejuvenated and they played the Spurs much closer than the results appear. The Suns easily could have taken both games in San Antonio and it would have been a completely different series.

Maybe a full season with Shaq and healthy Grant Hill will tell a different story.

Fencer reregistered · Post #4 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:49 am

It's like the Celts under Paul Gaston -- desperation moves, because ownership put the team in a financial straightjacket.

Phoenix in recent years has given away Kurt Thomas, the pick that was Loul Deng, and 4+ other first rounders.

They lost in no small part because good players played too many minutes and made dumb plays when exhausted.

BrokenLeftyJumper · Post #5 » by **BrokenLeftyJumper** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:58 am

Not only did the trade not work considering it was specifically done so the Suns could get past the Spurs, but consider these other two aspects of it:

1. The Suns were tied for first in the West when the trade went down. The finished as the 6th seed.

2. The Suns legitimately could have beat the Spurs last year, this year not so much.

s1ickd · Post #6 » by **s1ickd** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:10 am

the trade was absolutely a good one. the suns are a better team with shaq. id be more affraid to play them with o'neal on their roster as oposed to marion.

they played a spurs team thats playing the best ball that they can possibly play. the spurs are a better team than the suns. they have always been a better team than the suns.

the problem with pheonix is their haflcourt execution. while they're great at scoring on the break, they put up a lot of bad shots. against an efficient team like the spurs or pistons, they will always lose.

Post #7 » by **ParticleMan** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:33 am

I don't know if it's a good trade or not, but I can say that completely changing the character of your team midseason is not a good way to ensure playoff success.

I'd say if they don't have more success next season, it will be a failure. The Nash/Shaq window is getting very small.

grantlongforpresident · Post #8 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:48 am

Marion is better at Offense, better at Defense, better at rebounding, and better on the fast break. He has a solid outside shot. Nash was throwing him ally-oops all day long.

It is not accurate to assume that they had no chance with Marion. It is accurate to assume they had less of a chance with Shaq.

PHX blew it. Kerr blew it. Phx will still be good - just not as good.

This is ultimately good for the celtics. We don't have to face them. Phx is the worst franchise. They sell their 1st round picks for money.

BobbySura · Post #9 » by **BobbySura** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:48 am

me.

marion wanted superstar salary and he obviously isn't a superstar. he wasn't coming back next season so it was pointless to try to trade him. was shaq the best trade possible? I'm going to say yes. I can't picture many people wanting to trade anyone for marion unless it was a salary dumping move like zach randolph. and that definitely wouldn't had been any good for phoenix.

so shaq comes, gives them some decent rebounding and defense and amare's game explodes. great. it still didn't fix the most glaring problem and that's steve nash. he can't guard anyone and barbosa isn't exactly much better. tony parker was probably the worst matchup he could have ever gotten. had phoenix ran into dallas, the lakers or the rockets I think they would have had a good chance to get into the second round. Maybe even against the nuggets because they could probably out score them.

Bigmiketruth · Post #10 » by **Bigmiketruth** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:04 am

lol come on now.

Shaq made PHX much better and well balanced. Three of the games they lost were theirs to win, Game 1, Game 3 & Game 5 and they just blew them, esp 1 & 5. I'd like to see what they look like for a whole season, esp if PHX medical staff are the miracle workers Shaq makes them out to be.

BrokenLeftyJumper · Post #11 » by **BrokenLeftyJumper** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:43 am

I don't know how people can be so convinced this was a good trade. It seems like some people think the Suns were just a big joke with Marion. Do people forget that if not for Amare/Diaw being suspended and some possible Donaghy influence in last years Suns-Spurs matchup, the Suns had a very good shot at winning that series.

And for all the crap Marion got for not stepping up in the playoffs, Shaq played like a big stiff in the great majority of that series.

Post #12 » by **Bleeding Green** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:48 am

Who ever defended it? Who ever defended the Kidd trade? No one I want to listen to.

GuyClinch · Post #13 » by **GuyClinch** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:14 pm

All three of the big trades down the stretch were epic fails, IMHO.

The Kidd trade was brain dead. You trade for a PG when your team is built around ISO moves - and you trade for a guy who is DONE. Why?!

The Shaq trade was idiotic. You get deadweight salary. Your better off letting Marion expire if you so worried about his salary. Now you have an untradeable stiff.

And worst of all was the Delonte West/Wally trade. Here me now all you "we are facing the Cavs fans." They will be LUCKY to make it out of the first round. It's not over yet. Washington is WITHOUT ITS BEST PLAYER and I bet it goes 7.

Pete

yodi184 · Post #14 » by **yodi184** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:24 pm

Two words: STEVE KERR

MyInsatiableOne · Post #15 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:46 pm

GuyClinch wrote:All three of the big trades down the stretch were epic fails, IMHO.

The Kidd trade was brain dead. You trade for a PG when your team is built around ISO moves - and you trade for a guy who is DONE. Why?!

The Shaq trade was idiotic. You get deadweight salary. Your better off letting Marion expire if you so worried about his salary. Now you have an untradeable stiff.

And worst of all was the Delonte West/Wally trade. Here me now all you "we are facing the Cavs fans." They will be LUCKY to make it out of the first round. It's not over yet. Washington is WITHOUT ITS BEST PLAYER and I bet it goes 7.

Pete

Right on, Pete. The only reason the Cavs trade was the least-bad is that LeBron is so good he makes up for it. But he's taking a **** beating from Washington...they're just doing it on purpose now cos they hate him.

Mahoney_jr · Post #16 » by **Mahoney_jr** » Fri May 2, 2008 5:35 pm

I still like the Shaq-trade, because I still don't like Marion. Not a winner. Not a playoff performer by any means.

humblebum · Post #17 » by **humblebum** » Fri May 2, 2008 5:44 pm

Mahoney_jr wrote:I still like the Shaq-trade, because I still don't like Marion. Not a winner. Not a playoff performer by any means.

Yep. This is a big reason why I initially liked the trade and why I still like it. Add to that, that I hate small ball and Amare is better suited as a PF and the deal looks even better.

Let's face it, the Suns are NOT better than the Spurs (and probably not better than the Lakers either) with Marion OR with Shaq. They have really weak defense overall at the 1, 3, 4, and 5 spots. Shaq gave the Suns a legit post defender but he can't handle dribble penetration from smalls... and with the way Nash and whoever they trot out at the 3 spot defends there is simply too much penetration into the paint.

The Suns really hurt themselves by getting rid of so many first round picks. That is what has killed the Suns... NOT trading Marion for Shaq. Imagine the Suns with Rondo and Luol Deng.... They would be absolutely ridiculous.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #18 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Fri May 2, 2008 6:12 pm

humblebum wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yep. This is a big reason why I initially liked the trade and why I still like it. Add to that, that I hate small ball and Amare is better suited as a PF and the deal looks even better.

Let's face it, the Suns are NOT better than the Spurs (and probably not better than the Lakers either) with Marion OR with Shaq. They have really weak defense overall at the 1, 3, 4, and 5 spots. Shaq gave the Suns a legit post defender but he can't handle dribble penetration from smalls... and with the way Nash and whoever they trot out at the 3 spot defends there is simply too much penetration into the paint.

The Suns really hurt themselves by getting rid of so many first round picks. That is what has killed the Suns... NOT trading Marion for Shaq. Imagine the Suns with Rondo and Luol Deng.... They would be absolutely ridiculous.

But at least Marion put up numbers on a consistent basis. With Shaq now you don't know what you'll get or even if he's gonna play.

GuyClinch · Post #19 » by **GuyClinch** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:36 pm

Talentwise the Shaq trade was stupid. They could have just kept Kurt Thomas and had a similiar to Shaq player down low. Yes I am saying that Kurt Thomas isn't much worse then Shaq now..

The Suns were acting like the Gaston C's - I agree with that sentiment. they didn't want to shell out some money for a decent free agent big - as it might put them over the gap. So they take on cap garbage like Shaq. It's much like the Vin Baker trade..

Pete

intheknow · Post #20 » by **intheknow** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:58 pm

The Shaq trade was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) move. It might have worked if Shaq had been 10 years younger and the plan was to change the way the Suns play ball - but as it was - pure stupidity!