Curious what yall think

Bubbaleo · Post #1 » by **Bubbaleo** » Fri May 2, 2008 10:44 pm

derek, paris: what do you see happening with monta ellis, baron davis, and andris biedrins this offseason?

Bill Simmons: (12:19 PM ET ) I think they're going to trade Davis. Just a gut feeling. He has some miles on him and he wore down in the final month of the season - not a good sign for the next few years - and they need that money to pay the other 2 guys. I don't see them going into next year with a $76 million payroll. The Clips seem like a natural fit for him - they have a high pick and could basically get it done if it's Livingston, Maggette (both expiring contracts) and the pick. I think I'd do that if I'm the Clips as long as the pick wasn't top-2.

I just saw this posted on the mercury forum and was wondering what the resident experts think about it. I'll give my two cents in a bit.

WarFan · Post #2 » by **WarFan** » Fri May 2, 2008 11:10 pm

I would consider this deal. However, Simmons is mistaken in his belief that Livingston is still under contract. This trade would be pretty complicated because Maggette and Baron can both opt out and Livingston is up for RFA.

Assuming Baron and Maggette don't opt out, the best way to make this deal work would be for the Clips to make the pick and sign him (about 3 million), then wait 30 days. Then S&T Livingston (it would have to be about 4.5 million in the first year) with Maggette (7) and the rookie for Baron(17.8).

The problem I have is that I'm not sure who I would want with that pick. Normally I'd want Eric Gordon, but with Maggette and Livingston coming back in the trade that crowds the back-court already. The only way I'd do it is if Love was moving up the draft boards and I really wanted him. After those two, I don't really care for any of the other prospects around 6 better than what would be left at 14.

Also, this is all assuming that Livingston would be healthy and willing to take the contract.

giberish · Post #3 » by **giberish** » Sat May 3, 2008 12:03 am

If Baron is traded, the Clippers are the most likely option (assuming they either pick 3rd or 6-7th). It would hopefully be for the Clippers 1st + salary filler as he noted, but the salary filler wouldn't be Livingston (he's a FA, and I expect the Clipps want to resign him to a cheap/short deal). It would likely be two of Mobley, Maggs and Thomas.

Warrior-Poet · Post #4 » by **Warrior-Poet** » Sat May 3, 2008 12:31 am

that's not enough value for baron. i don't think he's traded for so little....or traded at all this offseason.

livingston might not have anything left, so no sense in trading for him.

Sid the Squid · Post #5 » by **Sid the Squid** » Sat May 3, 2008 12:54 am

That's way more than enough value for Baron...We end up with Gordon for a washed up Baron? ..OMG..Warriors are not going to extend Baron..I realize most of the posters here secretly believe and hope that happens..But Baron's done as a warrior..What a great trade that would be.

Post #6 » by **floppymoose** » Sat May 3, 2008 1:04 am

Whatever folks think of BDiddy, we need another PG if we trade him. I love Monta as our main PG, but you gotta have a backup.

Sid the Squid · Post #7 » by **Sid the Squid** » Sat May 3, 2008 1:07 am

floppymoose wrote:Whatever folks think of BDiddy, we need another PG if we trade him. I love Monta as our main PG, but you gotta have a backup.

Runi!!!

Twinkie defense · Post #8 » by **Twinkie defense** » Sat May 3, 2008 3:26 am

I don't see the Clips and Warriors making ANY trade.

toffee · Post #9 » by **toffee** » Sat May 3, 2008 5:53 am

floppymoose wrote:Whatever folks think of BDiddy, we need another PG if we trade him. I love Monta as our main PG, but you gotta have a backup.

You think Monta is ready to be a NBA starting PG?

Post #10 » by **floppymoose** » Sat May 3, 2008 8:54 am

I'm not sure he's ready, but I'm sure the team is ready to find out. I'd much rather give him a try there than settle for him being a SG. If he can handle the PG spot, he'll be a top 10 player in the league.

Post #11 » by **FNQ** » Sat May 3, 2008 9:07 am

toffee wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You think Monta is ready to be a NBA starting PG?

It would be great if we knew that answer now... and we really should.

St.Nick · Post #12 » by **St.Nick** » Sat May 3, 2008 1:20 pm

510Reggae wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

It would be great if we knew that answer now... and we really should.

...and smarter people that watch him every single practice/game DO know the answer.

Post #13 » by **Sleepy51** » Sat May 3, 2008 1:35 pm

Monta was the lead guard for roughly half the minutes this season.

What games were you people watching?

killacalijatt · Post #14 » by **killacalijatt** » Sat May 3, 2008 5:52 pm

I dought Livingston has nothing left in the tank.
He's young he can still make a comeback, never say never.

But Id want to ship out Cory or Sjax to a 3rd team.
Do u know how boring its gonna be watching Maggete go to the line 20 times
Or watching Sjax just chuck like no tomorrow, atleast when Baron was here he had half the responsibilty now hes gonna do it full time.

Post #15 » by **FNQ** » Sat May 3, 2008 7:21 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:Monta was the lead guard for roughly half the minutes this season.

What games were you people watching?

The first half of the season his job was to bring the ball up and swing it to get the defense moving... always swung to Baron.

It sucked really... even in the 2nd half, we set Baron up... Monta posting him up, Monta isoing him or Jax on one side...

I remember in February teams were scared stiff of Tay... if Al had is legs, Jax had his toes, or Baron had a jumper we would have taken off... teams were collapsing on Tay's drive so quick, and the passing lanes were enormous.

Either way... he should been the initiator more... he only shot 53% and had a 1.9:1 TO ratio... our infallible management blows it again... there's no excuse for not knowing his value right now, so now Mullin and Tay/agent are in a delicate situation. This FO has the foresight of Ray Charles...

Post #16 » by **FNQ** » Sat May 3, 2008 7:24 pm

killacalijatt wrote:But Id want to ship out Cory or Sjax to a 3rd team.
Do u know how boring its gonna be watching Maggete go to the line 20 times

Yes it would... but for some reason, the NBA brass seems to love it... the Clips are overplaying their hand with him though. He should be a Stackhouse instant offense off the bench type... now he thinks hes worth a ton and all the NBA teams are aware of what he does... he may even opt out

I'd love him here though, unless the refs/rules change... <10 seconds on the SC and we can't get in any offense going, handoff to our fullback Maggette...

Chris Cohan · Post #17 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat May 3, 2008 7:31 pm

Ellis is a star in waiting. Any BS from Nelson or anyone here about his supposed inability to play point guard is in direct and irrational opposition to the fact that he played point guard every day of his life before his NBA development began and was outstanding at it. Instead of starting at point guard for a top-25 college team, he entered the NBA and was scoring 15+ PPG as soon as he got regular floor time. He racks up assists in his sleep when he doesn't have to defer to Davis and/or Jackson and showed excellent lateral defensive movement and instincts often.

His initial development was put in the hands of notorious boring/lame NBA point guard mechanic and NBA novice, 35-seconds-or-squat Mike Montgomery. Now he's got Nelson and Davis to contend with.

You can invest your own future millions in those two ahead of Ellis if you'd care to but I don't think the Warriors will. The "he's not a point guard" debate is for those who don't watch the games or didn't until they heard Baron Davis was not completely washed up after all.

Those folks can go back to sleep now.

Post #18 » by **floppymoose** » Sat May 3, 2008 9:09 pm

The most significant problem Ellis had this season at PG was that he leaned on Baron for leadership.

If Baron looked at coach and saw the "give it to Monta" sign, and gave it to Monta, Monta did fine. If Monta came up with no Baron and looked at coach and saw the "go to it Monta" sign, Monta struggled.

I think that's something that he will grow out of with more experience playing without Baron, which will likely happen in one of the nxt two seasons - either because Baron leaves or is traded, or because he gets injured.

Post #19 » by **FNQ** » Sat May 3, 2008 9:25 pm

floppymoose wrote:The most significant problem Ellis had this season at PG was that he leaned on Baron for leadership.

If Baron looked at coach and saw the "give it to Monta" sign, and gave it to Monta, Monta did fine. If Monta came up with no Baron and looked at coach and saw the "go to it Monta" sign, Monta struggled.

I think that's something that he will grow out of with more experience playing without Baron, which will likely happen in one of the nxt two seasons - either because Baron leaves or is traded, or because he gets injured.

I agree... but this responsibility should be on the coach here. Kid has never played PG, and our offensive setup... its pretty much a joke. When Tay was asked to run plays, he did them well... he was excellent and the pick and roll with Dre by the end of the year. He's just limited with passing the ball as of right now - which is why I really wouldnt have minded seeing him thrown into the fire more often. A talent like Tay can easily adapt once he knows what hes doing...

A big reason I want Baron to go is to accelerate that development. Yes it'll be rough and not make our team immediately better... cost us a few wins. If a few wins now is the difference between Monta being a decent scoring PG or a good/great one, seems obvious to try it...

Chris Cohan · Post #20 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sun May 4, 2008 1:33 am

floppymoose wrote:The most significant problem Ellis had this season at PG was that he leaned on Baron for leadership.

If Baron looked at coach and saw the "give it to Monta" sign, and gave it to Monta, Monta did fine. If Monta came up with no Baron and looked at coach and saw the "go to it Monta" sign, Monta struggled.
I think that's something that he will grow out of with more experience playing without Baron, which will likely happen in one of the nxt two seasons - either because Baron leaves or is traded, or because he gets injured.

Where did you come up with this equation?
It's almost entirely fabricated as best I can tell.