Curious what yall think

[floppymoose]

I can't help you man. I've tried but it's no use, it seems. Good luck to you.

[Chris Cohan]

Typical. Enjoy your condescension, Flop.

[Chris Cohan]

The most significant problem Ellis had this season at PG was that he leaned on Baron for leadership.

If Baron looked at coach and saw the "give it to Monta" sign, and gave it to Monta, Monta did fine. If Monta came up with no Baron and looked at coach and saw the "go to it Monta" sign, Monta struggled.

I think that's something that he will grow out of with more experience playing without Baron, which will likely happen in one of the nxt two seasons - either because Baron leaves or is traded, or because he gets injured.

Ellis was great many times without Baron around down the stretch and in other years, as well, even under Montgomery and with JRich for that brief closing stint pre-Monty Can. THAT is my problem with you on this, Flop. At bottom, we're agreeing entirely and are very supportive of Monta Ellis. But you're either covering your arse instead of just saying GIMME MONTA or you're totally infatuated with Baron Freaking Davis and need ot find ways to claim he has leadership abilities. He really, truly doesn't most years.

Because the occasions in slow down half court offense (!) in which Ellis was without Davis were almost non-existent this year until March. So what you've really said is that Ellis was usually successful when running point. And you're totally ignoring how often Baron made Ellis' job at point tougher. And there are lots of folks who saw Ellis run point in a nice fast system without the chucking once Nelson ran him out on his own when he suddenly changed up his rotation in MARCH and APRIL.

Just drop it, dude, you're making this up to fit your agenda.
Baron is unnecessary.

Time to move on and get serious about longterm success, not short term contract whoring.

[FNQ]

-= original quote snipped =-



Hey Guys, pay attention to that!

No... its naive to think it will ever be a buyers' market, because usually the teams with capspace are prone to make a huge splash and dictate an overinflated market.

[Chris Cohan]

-= original quote snipped =-
No... its naive to think it will ever be a buyers' market, because usually the teams with capspace are prone to make a huge splash and dictate an overinflated market.

The Lewis signing was reflective of a terrible buyers' market. The player had all of the power because no one had cap space and no one was available. And because his agent was dealing with former Warriors brassman, Otis Smith. That contract has absolutely no relationship to the kind of offseason we may see in 09.

Teams will have cap space and consider Baron's ball hogging unhappiness at having to peddle his wares knowing Iverson, Andre Miller, Bibby, Kidd, Odom, Brand, Marion, Rasheed Wallace, Andre Miller, Artest, and even Gilbert Arenas, can all be as available as him from the opening tip of the 08-09 season.

[old rem]

If Baron is traded, the Clippers are the most likely option (assuming they either pick 3rd or 6-7th). It would hopefully be for the Clippers 1st + salary filler as he noted, but the salary filler wouldn't be Livingston (he's a FA, and I expect the Clipps want to resign him to a cheap/short deal). It would likely be two of Mobley, Maggs and Thomas.

Not interested in big $ filler as most of the return and not real sold on what's at 6-7 or whatever. Livingston has yet to stay healthy long enough to become much better than Watson.

Pick-Thornton and Mobely as filler? Perhaps - except Mobely probably ain't enough fill and so I guess they have to add Ross,who I think would be a S+T.

Then we creatively trade down the pick and get some value...or maybe trade down #14...take Love with #7.

[warriortone]

The Warriors were prepared to blow it up and rebuild around Ellis and Biedrins last offseason. Then the team made the run and the playoffs. No such mandate this time around. Precisely the opposite, in fact.

So are you saying that the FO is going to do everything in their power to keep the current group intact and only make minor adjustments? Please tell me I read this wrong.

[Chris Cohan]

1. No sense of urgency anymore - Less pushing for something special like last year and their hands are totally tied by Baron's personal option timeline.

2. The team won a lot and did not miss the playoffs by much. Some in the FO basically feel the way they told Bob Fitzgerald to spin it ad nauseum to finish the season - it's the league's playoff format that needs changing, not us.

But it was clear to all how poorly the team played to finish the season and since they controlled their position until the collapse, the first two points do not secure anyone's job for next year. The charge that it was the bench, not the starters, is not fooling anyone it needs to. Players and coaches with clear histories of behaving exactly as they did showed their true colors after putting on a good show thanks to some good fortune last year.

More importantly, the salary management has been an ongoing project with definite steps that have not yet been completed. One step was cutting the future commitment years down as much as possible by shedding contracts like Fisher's, Foyle's, Murphy's, Dunleavy's, and Richardson's. Done.

Baron Davis was considered a failed acquisition in several ways when he went out for his surgery last year, although he was first and foremost considered a total PR success. He was immovable once the team found a taker for Richardson. Rightly so-- the team would have lost a lot of revenue this year without him. But now they'll be fine.

Next up is moving out the risky players whose much more agreeable contracts were attainable precisely because they are not all you could ask for.

Other elements include an ongoing approach to extending drafted players that may or may not mean we lose Monta or Bedrins in the next two years.

So the bottom line is that any spin suggesting the failure to make the playoffs was anything less than just that - a failure on the part of the leadership - does not convince Robert Rowell to do anything but stay the course. And Baron Davis and his agent being totally focused on ridiculous financial expectations means the Rowell/Davis relationship has a fine chance of souring intensely RIGHT NOW. Nelson waiting to see what unfolds there is an afterthought. Rowell already put Nelson in his place by putting the onus on the Old Man's integrity once and for all if he chickens out with no self-sufficient focus to wind up and let go.

[warriortone]

Thanks for the feedback, ROWELL.