Woodson a keeper or Hawks high

Rip2137 · Post #21 » by **Rip2137** » Mon May 5, 2008 8:49 pm

Okay, since you want to nitpick, 39.8 (although you were the same person that liked to point out that Horford didn't average a double double when he was averaging 9.7 rebounds...just saying)

Yes, shooting 40 percent and averaging 20 points (especially with the number of shots JJ was taking) is sucking. there is no way around it at all. 40 percent from the field in the NBA if officially a BAD fieldgoal shooting percentage. Not average...not okay. Its BAD.

If a guy is shooting 40%, they are going to say he is shooting badly. I really don't understand how you are trying to argue otherwise.

And isn't it a bit lame to have 20 points as the all important scoring mark to say someoen is carrying the team? the team averaged, what, 94 points per game for most of the season. JJ was jacking up the most shots and shooting a crappy percentage, so how exactly were the other two supposed to averaged ove 20? What they did do is average damn good numbers and damn good shooting percentages.

15 points on 49 percent shooting, 18 points on 51 percent shooting and 16 points on 44 percent shooting are all better than 20 points on 40 percent shooting any day.

I am not saying JJ is not a better player than the two of them. But simply put, they outplayed him for 4 months(just noticed I have been saying 5, but it was November through Jan.)

They were carrying the team. Simply put. It certainly wasn't the guy shooting 40% from the field.

conleyorbust · Post #22 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:08 pm

tontoz wrote:
So are you saying JJ played better in Dec and Jan and February than Josh Smith?

Did you even read your own post? You said EVERYONE was outplaying JJ.

Smith doesn't have to deal with the defensive attention JJ does. If he did he would probably average 10 pts and 7 turnovers per game.

JJ is always the focal point of the other teams defense. Smith has it easy by comparison.

Just to point out that JJ was injured for a month and a half last season and Smith averaged around 20-10-3-3 over that span... I think it was on 45%-ish with his FTA being upped but I don't remember exactly. I don't know if I'd want him doing that for a full season but its moronic to say that he couldn't deal with that pressure when he has before.

A big problem with it is that Smith's shot is so bad that when he is playing second banana or whatever he gets a lot of open looks which he either misses or has to pass up because he has no accuracy.

Anyway, I said before that I was OK with Joe going through a slump because it looked like he was injured. I just didn't like the fact that everyone else was busting their ass and he was complaining about HIS lack of help while he was having his worst season in 5 years (turned out to be better than that).

tontoz · Post #23 » by **tontoz** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:10 pm

Yes, shooting 40 percent and averaging 20 points (especially with the number of shots JJ was taking) is sucking. there is no way around it at all. 40 percent from the field in the NBA if officially a BAD fieldgoal shooting percentage. Not average...not okay. Its BAD.

If a guy is shooting 40%, they are going to say he is shooting badly. I really don't understand how you are trying to argue otherwise.

A typical starting shooting guard will shoot 44-45%. Over those first few months JJ was shooting on average about 3-4% lower than that.

McGrady shot 41.9% on the season. I guess he sucked too. Ditto Baron Davis.

Stephen Jackson averaged 20 ppg shooting 40% on the season but i don't see anyone talking about him sucking.

What you don't understand is just looking at the shooting percentage doesn't tell the whole story. Guys who take a lot of 3s might have a lower shooting percentage but actually score more points because of the 3s they hit. Their EFFECTIVE shooting percentage is much higher than their actual shooting percentage.

But i am obviously wasting my time trying to explain that to you.

A typical PF shoots a much higher percentage yet Smith shot 37% in November. Now that is REALLY sucking.

JoshB914 · Post #24 » by **JoshB914** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:14 pm

It was more than shooting % though. JJ's defense and body language made it look like he was frustarted and not interested. When we got Bibby it seemed to get him movitaved again. I think he'll be back on his game next year for all 82 games.

tontoz · Post #25 » by **tontoz** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:26 pm

JoshB914 wrote:It was more than shooting % though. JJ's defense and body language made it look like he was frustarted and not interested. When we got Bibby it seemed to get him movitaved again. I think he'll be back on his game next year for all 82 games.

Or injured. I don't think he was wearing that sleeve on his calf as a fashion statement.

I hear people making allowances for Bibby because he isn't 100%. Funny how those same people don't apply the same standard to JJ who has a history of playing through injuries.

I am sure everyone has heard of the All-Star break. Ever think that maybe the time off helped JJ?

JoshB914 · Post #26 » by **JoshB914** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:40 pm

If JJ is playing, he needs to be better than that. He even said himself that he was healthy, if he was hurt to the point that it was causing him to shoot 40% he should have sat out a few games. There is no questioning the guys heart and desire to get on the floor, but he really was hurting the team for some of that stretch. Sometimes I also think our trainers suck, maybe JJ was hurt and they didn't think it was serious (Speedy Claxton).

Bibby is not anywhere close to being in JJ's league, so him being hurt is going to have more of an effect. I wouldn't call it an excuse, I would just say that Bibby has a limited game, so a bum ankle killed him. However, if he played like that for 50 games like JJ, then I would be on his case too.

The best thing about JJ is he looked re-energized the second half of the year. I think he'll be ready for 08-09.

tontoz · Post #27 » by **tontoz** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:46 pm

if he was hurt to the point that it was causing him to shoot 40% he should have sat out a few games.

If he sat out just a few minutes the offense went down the toilet.

Besides it is ultimately the coaches decision who plays. Players generally aren't going to pull themselves unless they can't play. If JJ says he can play then you know Woody will play him 40+ even if he is hurting.

We saw Bibby limping around the court for 40 minutes a game.

He even said himself that he was healthy, i

So do you think it is a good idea to let your opponents know you are hurting? Do you think he wrapped his calf for fun?

JoshB914 · Post #28 » by **JoshB914** » Mon May 5, 2008 9:56 pm

We probably would have lost the games he sat out. But if the injury was so bad that it was lowering his shooting % by 4-6 points then it would have been worth the rest. If the AS Break was really what cured him, then why couldn't we have just sat him out for a week earlier in the season?

And yes, Woody is a clown for playing him all those minutes.