GS-NO's trade will go down as the best in franchise history

[D-Weaver]

You want to be terrible with exciting young talents with unknown ceilings until a Garnett/Kobe trade presents itself.

Or you can have a great scouting department and some savvy FO personnel ( we all agree Mullin is not exactly the alpha dog in GM meetings,hehe) to pull of moves like trading for a HS kid just drafted giving away a tested starting C in Divac, and wooing Shaq in free agency. 3 titles right there.

Or complimenting a 'tanking' product like Duncan with late 1st-rounders like \Parker and Ginobili. 3 title more.

Or trading a problem child like Sheed and have him become a great team player and getting a gem late in the 1st round with Prince. 1 more title.


7 title in the past 8 years had little if nothing to do with tanking to acquire a franchise player. Sure Duncan accounts for that 'little

[floppymoose]

I'd hire Chris Webber (not kidding)

As coach? That could be interesting. He seems like a smart guy, and likable. And he has the former player respect card.

edit: oops, I see you meant as GM. What about as coach instead?

[FNQ]

I wouldn't trust Webber's decision making ability under pressure as head coach or GM... I wouldnt be opposed to keeping him as an underling for a while until he gets used to it....

I'd love him as a big man coach though...

[Sleepy51]

I wouldn't trust Webber's decision making ability under pressure as head coach or GM... I wouldnt be opposed to keeping him as an underling for a while until he gets used to it....

I'd love him as a big man coach though...

This I can agree with 100%. Chris has always been too thin skinned to be a front man. He needs someone to stand ahead of him. I wouldn't peg Chris as a success an a leader in any walk of life. He's intelligent and charismatic and SHOULD be right there, but his lifelong battle for validation and his threadbare sensitivity are not leadership characteristics.

Assistant coach? Sure, I guess. Can he teach guys to have gigantic hands?

[Sid the Squid]

Webber's kings would of won the championship if his teammates didnt choke in game 7 vs LA..

You're talking trash..

Webber's all grown up..He's matured nicely..

Great basketball mind.

You need to flipflop more with your opinions on players..

I used to think the exact same things about Webb..But I've kept my eye's open..

[Sleepy51]

I've kept my eyes open too. He's still very sensitive and very concerned with validation (demanding to start here, going back to his restaurant after missing a few layups.)

He is a sensitive man. No shame in that, but you have to have thicker skin to be a successful coach, exec or leader.

I think you might be seeing what you want to see because it's easy to forgive Webber his faults with Nellie pissing you off on an hourly basis.

[Sleepy51]

And I'm definitely not talking trash. I like Webb. You read me totally wrong about Nellie's Webber experiment this season. I wasn't against it because I don't like Webb. I wasn't against it at all. I was against Nellie's clumsy hamhandedness with it. I was against doing it in a way that would offer more disruption, when the goal was to increase the cohesion. I wasn't calling out Webb at fault (except where your proposed starting promise came into play) I was just calling it as I saw it, and I was 100% right in how it played out.

I liked Webb more than Nellie the first time around too. I never wished ill on him when he left, and I almost got in a fight with my brother who was cheering when he dislocated his shoulder in his return with the Bullets.

I don't hate Webb, but I do know leadership. He got a hole in his game there. It is what it is. People don't get to be good leaders just becasue they are "qualified." There are other intangible elements that are even more important than competence and knowledge. Webb has the charisma. He's got that in spades. But his sensitivity is an achillies heel as a coach. Player would smell it like blood in the water.

[FNQ]

I don't question his ability to lead... he was the Kings leader, and even though they never made it to the ring (Exhibit A under the title "Short SGs are not PGs, right Mike Bibby? Foreword by "Arizona PGs never translate"), that team fed of Webb, and he got intense on a few occasions...

What I never saw from Webber was a cool head in crunch time... when it was time to really make a decision, I remember panic... Then once he got traded to Philly, never even gave him a look...

Overall maturity, I think he has to have some... he re-united with Nellie, if only for a brief period of time. If anything, I'd have to say his plummet from grace was humbling and that for right now, he's more docile than ever.

Baby steps though. I'd rather he teach BWright and Beans to pass the ball better first, focus only on that... if he's successful? Reward the guy with Smart's job once he fizzles out again.

[Sleepy51]

And I think you all are failing to credit Vlade with a significant portion of the leaderhsip burden on those kings teams. Webb was the star player, but Webber was being led by Vlade in Sac. You would never pick him as the leader for a post game interview or media hype, but Vlade was the heartbeat of those Kings.

[Sid the Squid]

I just think Chris did enough to deserve that NBA championship...It's not his fault in any way that Doug Christie is a girly man brain dead brick layer choker who launched an early 3pt shot with 21 ticks left on the shot clock down 1 to the lakers.

[Sleepy51]

What I never saw from Webber was a cool head in crunch time... when it was time to really make a decision, I remember panic... Then once he got traded to Philly, never even gave him a look...

That's the sensitivity thing in action. The urgent need for validation and fear of rejection affects your decisionmaking under pressure.

It's why women can't be in charge of anything important

[Left*My*Heart]

CWebb as an assistant coach to tutor the bigmen is fine with me, but other than that, I would have a wait and see approach with him. I question his basketball IQ.

[St.Nick]

Webb was not a good post player at all. I would really not like him to be our big man coach, unless it was teaching our guys how to pass.

[Sleepy51]

I just think Chris did enough to deserve that NBA championship...It's not his fault in any way that Doug Christie is a girly man brain dead brick layer choker who launched an early 3pt shot with 21 ticks left on the shot clock down 1 to the lakers.

I actually agree. Although I blame Vlade for not grabbing that rebound with both hands. 7 footers tipping at rebounds drives me nuts. I hate when Dre does it too.

When Webb manned up and played Center defending Shaq I wanted to leap out of my chair cheering and punch myself in the face at the same time. Here was the guy Nelson ran off for not wanting to play center guarding the most dominant center ever in the biggest moment of his career and doing as good a job as anyone in the league had done that season (with a bad knee and bad back.)

(Note the history of Nelson being clumsy and heavy handed in his on court manipulations - he's nothing if not consistent.)

[Sleepy51]

Webb was not a good post player at all. I would really not like him to be our big man coach, unless it was teaching our guys how to pass.

His post game was ugly, but effective. He did a lot of unorthodox things because he never learned great back to the basket footwork, and he could fall back on those gargantuan paws. Throwing the ball in the hoop from awkward positions was nothing for him because it was like holding a tennis ball.

You're right that he can't teach the stuff that made his post offense effective, but he could teach defense and rebounding. And having our big men think like passers would be fantastic.

I would prefer Webb teaching his unorthodox game to having Tuner teach guys how to be like the Collins twins.

[old rem]

Its a crap shoot to tank and then hope for things to work out via the draft. Look at all the teams that tanked and were supposed to be hot poop after winning the draft lotto, but instead had luck work against them.

Boston in the Tim Duncan year
Denver in the LeBron year
Milwaukee with Bogut
Charlotte every season

Look where these teams are now (not including Boston, who mired in squalor for far too long before reaching this point <and still may be knocked out by Atlanta tonight!>).

A normal franchise will not attempt to go from 48 wins to 20 wins, especially when they have so many talented guys on the team that would not allow that to happen. Monta, Biedrins, and Brandan alone could will this team to more than 20 wins. I mean, we play the Eastern Conference teams 30 times a year for goodness sakes.

The rational approach to next year is to just play it to win. We did it 48 times last year despite having no bench and not getting contributions from our rookies (whoever you want to find responsible for that). Our young players stand to gain a lot more by learning how to win than by being on a team trying to lose.

If you compromised a positive, winning attitude, traded all of our star veterans, and fired our coach just to HOPE that the guy we drafted would turn out to be a difference maker...thats just not reality nor is it a recipe for success.

Regarding Baron...I think most people would agree that if there is a good deal for him...something which capitalizes on his EC and his high level of play...then we should be open to moving him. But to take back guys that not only produce less but also have long term contracts, that is just unsound management.

Anyways, its a stone cold lock that our team is not going to tank next year. I know it makes for dull RealGM chit chat, but its simply a fact that cannot be reasonably disputed.

Our high picks got Joe Barry Carroll,Chris Washburn,Mike Dunleavy,and Joe Smith. Wowie zowie. Rd 2's, Ellis and Arenas are better than all 4 of those top 3 guys.

Recent history 1A....Pietrus + POB....lotto + lotto are about to escape with MP still a bit underdeveloped and POB as invisible as a 7 footer can get.
They join the mass exodus,J Rich,Dun,Murphy,Foyle,Diogu...all lotto picks.

The Spurs shot to the top with David Robinson. He missed a season injured and the Spurs sucked but got Duncan.

Lakers had post Shaq menopause and that earned them pick 10.

Bulls....well...the whole team moved on,and they traded Brand for HS phenom Chandler

Orlando managed to lose Shaq and T Mac and have Grant Hill forever injured-payoff Dwight Howard. Detroit sucked and the big prize was Darko

Some very good teams have hardly any home grown lotto picks...have a core of the very guys that we shrug off as no upside or not having the physical measure.

[St.Nick]

Its a crap shoot to tank and then hope for things to work out via the draft. Look at all the teams that tanked and were supposed to be hot poop after winning the draft lotto, but instead had luck work against them.

Boston in the Tim Duncan year
Denver in the LeBron year
Milwaukee with Bogut
Charlotte every season

Look where these teams are now (not including Boston, who mired in squalor for far too long before reaching this point <and still may be knocked out by Atlanta tonight!>).

A normal franchise will not attempt to go from 48 wins to 20 wins, especially when they have so many talented guys on the team that would not allow that to happen. Monta, Biedrins, and Brandan alone could will this team to more than 20 wins. I mean, we play the Eastern Conference teams 30 times a year for goodness sakes.

The rational approach to next year is to just play it to win. We did it 48 times last year despite having no bench and not getting contributions from our rookies (whoever you want to find responsible for that). Our young players stand to gain a lot more by learning how to win than by being on a team trying to lose.

If you compromised a positive, winning attitude, traded all of our star veterans, and fired our coach just to HOPE that the guy we drafted would turn out to be a difference maker...thats just not reality nor is it a recipe for success.

Regarding Baron...I think most people would agree that if there is a good deal for him...something which capitalizes on his EC and his high level of play...then we should be open to moving him. But to take back guys that not only produce less but also have long term contracts, that is just unsound management.

Anyways, its a stone cold lock that our team is not going to tank next year. I know it makes for dull RealGM chit chat, but its simply a fact that cannot be reasonably disputed.

Our high picks got Joe Barry Carroll,Chris Washburn,Mike Dunleavy,and Joe Smith. Wowie zowie. Rd 2's, Ellis and Arenas are better than all 4 of those top 3 guys.

Recent history 1A....Pietrus + POB....lotto + lotto are about to escape with MP still a bit underdeveloped and POB as invisible as a 7 footer can get.
They join the mass exodus,J Rich,Dun,Murphy,Foyle,Diogu...all lotto picks.

The Spurs shot to the top with David Robinson. He missed a season injured and the Spurs sucked but got Duncan.

Lakers had post Shaq menopause and that earned them pick 10.

Bulls....well...the whole team moved on,and they traded Brand for HS phenom Chandler

Orlando managed to lose Shaq and T Mac and have Grant Hill forever injured-payoff Dwight Howard. Detroit sucked and the big prize was Darko

Some very good teams have hardly any home grown lotto picks...have a core of the very guys that we shrug off as no upside or not having the physical measure.

Just want to say that I agree with you and I am honored that you quoted my post.

Just to clarify something, Detroit got Darko as part of the infamous Otis Thorpe deal with Memphis. Which actually reminds me...Memphis was another one of those teams that rebuilt, rebuilt, rebuilt...got to 50 wins...and are now rebuilding again.

In the NBA all youve got is today and maybe next week (figuratively speaking). Looking into things several years in advance rarely ever works due to the volatility of change.

[Sleepy51]

Some very good teams have hardly any home grown lotto picks...have a core of the very guys that we shrug off as no upside or not having the physical measure.

Which "very good" teams are those?

The Wiz have the guy we COULDN'T keep, and the guy we moved out because he was too athletic to justify benching in favor of Dunleavy's smarts. Tawn wasn't dealt because of anything he lacked. He was in the marketing department's way.

Hughes is crap on a crap team.

Joe Smith is a roleplayer being carried by Lebron.

Murph, Dun and Ike play for a rebuilding team that couldn't make the Easter conference 8 spot.

Who are these "good teams" making treasure form our trash?

[Copperhead]

Actually watching Paul gets on my nerves with his flopping and *nice guy" routine...I'm glad he's not on the W's..I'd rather lose with Gilbert than win with a Paul or a Davis.

You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdERYOtqsg