ImageImageImage

Is Lebron the greatest player in the league?

Moderators: bisme37, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts

Is Lebron the greatest player in the league?

Yes
31
48%
No
33
52%
 
Total votes: 64

nasbahceltic
Rookie
Posts: 1,204
And1: 80
Joined: Jul 02, 2006

 

Post#81 » by nasbahceltic » Wed May 7, 2008 12:55 pm

bruno sundov wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You have gone from being lazy at work to thinking about other men naked!!LOL. Just kidding. The guys is a machine. I don't know how else to put it.

He isn't D howard all chest and arms. LBJ would have been or was a nasty football player. Maybe a QB or running back.


He played tight-end in highschool
Image
User avatar
MyInsatiableOne
General Manager
Posts: 9,319
And1: 180
Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Location: Midwest via New England
Contact:
     

 

Post#82 » by MyInsatiableOne » Wed May 7, 2008 1:27 pm

cfan79 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I was thinking the same thing. I guess everyone's a little gay.


Umm, no! :D

And also, if God made LeBron to be perfect, wouldn't be be a MUCH better defender??
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#83 » by tombattor » Wed May 7, 2008 3:40 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Umm, no! :D

And also, if God made LeBron to be perfect, wouldn't be be a MUCH better defender??

No because God gave him all the tools to be the best defender in the league too. He just doesn't use them as often as you'd want him to. However, when the Cavs played the Lakers, Lebron shut down Kobe down the stretch, when they put him on Kobe.
GuyClinch
RealGM
Posts: 13,345
And1: 1,478
Joined: Jul 19, 2004

 

Post#84 » by GuyClinch » Wed May 7, 2008 3:41 pm

Lebron is a bit too stocky - I think the perfect baller has a body like Jordan or Kobe. Those guys have better quickness.
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#85 » by tombattor » Wed May 7, 2008 3:51 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Lebron is a bit too stocky - I think the perfect baller has a body like Jordan or Kobe. Those guys have better quickness.

But if you can be bigger and have the same quickness and speed, wouldn't that be better? You know Lebron is quicker and faster than Kobe at this point, right? I think you are falling victim to the perception that a leaner-looking player is always faster. But I don't blame you because that's generally true. Just not in this case.
GuyClinch
RealGM
Posts: 13,345
And1: 1,478
Joined: Jul 19, 2004

 

Post#86 » by GuyClinch » Wed May 7, 2008 4:21 pm

Where the leaner looking player has the advantage is on defense. They can change direction better then a stocky player as they have less mass to move in another direction.

That's why MJ was so dominant on defense.. Long, lanky and super quick.. Much like a taller version of Rondo or a smaller version of Garnett.

Pete
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#87 » by tombattor » Wed May 7, 2008 4:28 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Where the leaner looking player has the advantage is on defense. They can change direction better then a stocky player as they have less mass to move in another direction.

That's why MJ was so dominant on defense.. Long, lanky and super quick.. Much like a taller version of Rondo or a smaller version of Garnett.

Pete

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. However, Lebron is as quick in changing direction as any player 6'6" or taller. This guy is the ultimate physical specimen.

However, you are once again only looking at one aspect of D and failing to consider everything. If you are an offensive player who may not have quickness advantage, but have a size advantage, you can just post the defender up and back him down all day, all night. When Jordan tried to guard Magic, Magic posted him up and torched him. It wasn't until Pippen, who is bigger and stronger than Jordan, checked Magic, Jordan was able to take over and win their first championship.

OTOH, you can't post up Lebron because he's too strong. You need a combination of speed, quickness and power to be a great defender.
User avatar
canman1971
Senior Mod - Celtics
Senior Mod - Celtics
Posts: 14,919
And1: 8,926
Joined: May 13, 2003
Location: 18 Championship BLVD
       

 

Post#88 » by canman1971 » Wed May 7, 2008 4:29 pm

Until he can hit his FTs at a higher rate, he won't be the best. No reason for a guy with his talent to not hit at least 80% from the stripe.
User avatar
ermocrate
General Manager
Posts: 9,622
And1: 1,623
Joined: Apr 19, 2001
Location: Roma
Contact:
   

 

Post#89 » by ermocrate » Wed May 7, 2008 5:09 pm

Please! LeBron is NOT quick as a 6'4/6'5 guard, stop telling jokes... Plus he has a questionable ballhandling, nothing bad in that, at 23 is the second/third/forth best player in the NBA, he's going to dominate and define an era if he can develop 2-3 holes he has in his game.
"Negativity in this town sucks"
GuyClinch
RealGM
Posts: 13,345
And1: 1,478
Joined: Jul 19, 2004

 

Post#90 » by GuyClinch » Wed May 7, 2008 5:11 pm

However, you are once again only looking at one aspect of D and failing to consider everything. If you are an offensive player who may not have quickness advantage, but have a size advantage, you can just post the defender up and back him down all day, all night. When Jordan tried to guard Magic, Magic posted him up and torched him. It wasn't until Pippen, who is bigger and stronger than Jordan, checked Magic, Jordan was able to take over and win their first championship.


No I considered that - it's just that being a better help defender is more useful then being a better post defender. Yes you can't post up Lebron but few SF/SG play in the post anyway.

There is a certain "evolution" in the NBA so to speak - and the supreme body type is in fact the lanky, ultra quick and thin type. You could really see this when MJ was playing baseball. He was just incredibly thin compared to baseball players who were of course incredibly stocky compared to him.

Different sports attract people of different body types - and while Lebron might be a superior football player or baseball player. I don't think his extra bulk is useful in the game of basketball. It's probably a slight negative.

It's like the difference between AL Jefferson and Garnett? Who has the better body type - Garnett IMHO. If we are talking about the ultimate basketball body I would instead nominate Garnett or in this case Kobe.

Anyway lets just wait until the finals and then you can decide who the better player is. I can't imagine any unbiased viewer will pick against Kobe then..

Pete
User avatar
MyInsatiableOne
General Manager
Posts: 9,319
And1: 180
Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Location: Midwest via New England
Contact:
     

 

Post#91 » by MyInsatiableOne » Wed May 7, 2008 5:22 pm

canman1971 wrote:Until he can hit his FTs at a higher rate, he won't be the best. No reason for a guy with his talent to not hit at least 80% from the stripe.


^This.

You could *almost* play Hack-a-Bron late in games...he's atrocious at the line. If he hit 80%+, he'd average 35+ ppg!
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#92 » by tombattor » Wed May 7, 2008 6:21 pm

Pete, Lebron's 6'9" and 250 lbs. Fast as hell and jumps out of the gym. What other sport suits him better?
User avatar
tombattor
General Manager
Posts: 8,662
And1: 807
Joined: Nov 11, 2003
       

 

Post#93 » by tombattor » Wed May 7, 2008 6:25 pm

ermocrate wrote:Please! LeBron is NOT quick as a 6'4/6'5 guard, stop telling jokes... Plus he has a questionable ballhandling, nothing bad in that, at 23 is the second/third/forth best player in the NBA, he's going to dominate and define an era if he can develop 2-3 holes he has in his game.

Do you have a brain? Where did you read 6'4/6'5 guard from "any player 6'6" and taller?" And he is faster than all SFs and most big SGs. Yes, Iverson and Parker are faster, if you wanna go there, but then I seriously would have to question your intelligence.

Do you have any idea what makes Lebron so good? #1 reason is his ball handling. At his size no other player has the handle to be able to get to places they want, the way Lebron can. Have you ever heard of analysts say about Paul how he can get anywhere on the court? That's ballhandling.
User avatar
MyInsatiableOne
General Manager
Posts: 9,319
And1: 180
Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Location: Midwest via New England
Contact:
     

 

Post#94 » by MyInsatiableOne » Wed May 7, 2008 6:32 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Do you have a brain? Where did you read 6'4/6'5 guard from "any player 6'6" and taller?" And he is faster than all SFs and most big SGs. Yes, Iverson and Parker are faster, if you wanna go there, but then I seriously would have to question your intelligence.

Do you have any idea what makes Lebron so good? #1 reason is his ball handling. At his size no other player has the handle to be able to get to places they want, the way Lebron can. Have you ever heard of analysts say about Paul how he can get anywhere on the court? That's ballhandling.


I agree with you here, tombattor. And for the record, I've long thought that Pierce's ballhandling is rather OVERrated. How many times does he lose his handle and dribble it away/get picked when he handles it too much? Too many!
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
User avatar
ermocrate
General Manager
Posts: 9,622
And1: 1,623
Joined: Apr 19, 2001
Location: Roma
Contact:
   

 

Post#95 » by ermocrate » Wed May 7, 2008 10:41 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Do you have a brain? Where did you read 6'4/6'5 guard from "any player 6'6" and taller?" And he is faster than all SFs and most big SGs. Yes, Iverson and Parker are faster, if you wanna go there, but then I seriously would have to question your intelligence.

Do you have any idea what makes Lebron so good? #1 reason is his ball handling. At his size no other player has the handle to be able to get to places they want, the way Lebron can. Have you ever heard of analysts say about Paul how he can get anywhere on the court? That's ballhandling.
For me the better qualities he got are court vision, speed, enormous mass of muscle, height and intangibles. Ballhandling, post game and shoot are his flaws. If he wouldn't have been allowed to use is body to pass trough defenders he wouldn't have been effective at all, the reality is that you don't need to put a 6'6" or taller defender to defend him, you need a quick player that can put his body between him and the basket so the only thing he can do is charge, shoot over his head or take him in the low post, things he's not so good at.
"Negativity in this town sucks"
RayAllen#34
Sophomore
Posts: 100
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 20, 2008

 

Post#96 » by RayAllen#34 » Wed May 7, 2008 10:58 pm

Although kobe has a better outside shot, i dont think its what you can do, but rather how you utilize your skills, and lebron compensates for his weaker outside shot by driving hard to the basket more, hence is 50% field goal percentage. I think lebron is a better passer (not just because of his assists, but because he's a natural point guard) and a better rebounder. He's a good, but not great, underrated defender and turns it up in the fourth quarter to the point that his team leads the league in most come-from-behind victories. This is why I think Lebron is the best player in the league and not Kobe.
Image
GuyClinch
RealGM
Posts: 13,345
And1: 1,478
Joined: Jul 19, 2004

 

Post#97 » by GuyClinch » Thu May 8, 2008 5:14 am

Lebron is up there - but I just think Kobe's superior scoring ability and clutch play makes him more useful on a decent team. If you have an awful team that really can't do anything right - Lebron is your guy.

Kobe does his job as a scoring guard to perfection. I think Chris Paul deserves some love to - as he is the best at PG in the league. Lebron has a huge positive impact but he is a poor shooter for a SF. There is room for improvement.

Top four guys - Kobe, Paul, Garnett, Lebron..

Pete

Return to Boston Celtics