Top 10 players of this era (atleast 2000-2008)

[wigglestrue]

Fair enough. I'm not much of a cumulative stat guy myself. I see basketball as a game of opportunity cost and so I rate players based on their separation from the norm given the opportunity. What that amounts too, is that I'm very hesitant to move player A ahead of player B because he has more longevity at a level of impact that's not at B's peak.

What I tried to show in my post above was that the stats in his favor are heavily linked to usage and attempts. Yes, it's impressive that the little guy has endured for so long playing Chamberlain-esque minutes and hoisting so many shots and and handling the ball so much, but that same context diminishes his stats to a large extent. Honestly now, how can a player have so many steals and never make even an All-Defensive 2nd team? Because he's an average defender. He's also an average outside shooter, at best -- from beyond the arc, below average...counterproductive, even. For his decent number of assists, there is a hideous number of turnovers. Et cetera.

[PowerBull]

AI is way too high. Lebron has done more than him already.

really? Tell me

nba finals 1 : 1
mvp 0 : 1
all star teams 4 : 6
scoring titles...

and so on

[wigglestrue]

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really? Tell me

nba finals 1 : 1
mvp 0 : 1
all star teams 4 : 6
scoring titles...

and so on

Here are some other measures...

Seasons shooting better than 42% overall: LeBron 4, AI 4
Seasons shooting 35% or better from 3PT: Lebron 1, AI 0
Seasons with an AST/TO ratio better than 2: LeBron 4, AI 3
Seasons with an O rating 10+ points better than D rating: LeBron 4, AI 0.
Top 5 MVP finishes: LeBron 3, AI 3.
Top 5 PER finishes: LeBron 3, AI 0.
Top 5 win shares finishes: LeBron 4, AI 0.
Triple doubles: LeBron 17, AI 1.

[Dirk_diggler_41]

I don't know how Dirk isn't making it on some of these lists.

00-01 PER 22.8
01-02 PER 24.1
02-03 PER 25.5
03-04 PER 22.5
04-05 PER 26.1
05-06 PER 28.1
06-07 PER 27.6
07-08 PER 24.6

2000-01 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 ?????????????????

He's made an All-NBA team every single year since 2000. He's played in about 79 games per season this entire decade. I think he has the third most points since the 2000-2001 season.

[kandiking]

1.shaq
2. duncan
3.lebron
4.kobe
5.KG
6.Kidd
7.dirk
8.nash
9.Iverson
10.webber

[Wile E. Coyote]

Right now, it's:

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant

BUT, if Kobe wins two or three more rings in the next five years, then he vaults to 1.

[Cigamodnalro]

TMac should be on every list.

[True Warrior Zo]

I think it is pretty laughable to have Lebron in the top five. As much as i hate Dirk and think that he didn't deserve the MVP, i would argue that you would have to put anyone with an MVP during that time ahead of him. What has Lebron done? He averaged ponts in the high 20's and made one finals appearance. By those standards you would have to put AI ahead of him. If anyone has time, look at a site like basketball reference and look at all the other players accomplished compared to LBJ.

He's made what, 4 all star teams in that span? so half of them. You almost have to be partial to players that have been active all or most of that time.

[sp6r=underrated]

Due to the OP'S topic everything that happened pre-99/00 is irrelevant.

1. TD: If we were considering things that occurred prior to this decade, Shaq would be here.
2. Shaq: Highest peak, but the last two years you can question how much better he's been than an average player.
3. Kobe: Best offensive weapon of the decade.
4. KG: Great two-way player
5. Dirk: Really underrated here by a lot of people. He's made 8 All-NBA teams, had a three year stretch where he was considered a top 3 player.
6. Nash: For the decade the most dangerous offensive point guard in the NBA. The longevity argument against him doesn't really hold water, as demonstrated by previous posters.
7. Kidd: I've always felt Kidd is an overrated player. He, not Nash, is the guy who struggles in the half court. Because of his awful shooting, his massive skills at passing are diminished in the half court game, because people can always sag off him. Its the reason, in spite of playing on some talented offensive squads, only once in his career as his teams ranked in the top ten in offensive efficiency.
8. Iverson
9. McGrady
10. Lebron

[KyleCleric]

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Allen Iverson
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Steve Nash
8. Vince Carter
9. Tracy McGrady
10. Jason Kidd
11. Paul Pierce
12. Ray Allen
13. Chris Webber
14. Grant Hill
15. Gilbert Arenas

This was a list from basketball-reference's HOF probability. I wouldn't agree with it, but it's an interesting list and order.

[KyleCleric]

My own list would have to look something like this:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Allen Iverson
6. Steve Nash
7. Jason Kidd
8. Paul Pierce
9. Chauncey Billups
10. Lebron James

[ronnymac2]

My own list would have to look something like this:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Allen Iverson
6. Steve Nash
7. Jason Kidd
8. Paul Pierce
9. Chauncey Billups
10. Lebron James

Why do you have Kevin Garnett over shaq and kobe?

[Dirk_diggler_41]

My own list would have to look something like this:

8. Paul Pierce

He has never made an All NBA First team or an All NBA Second team.

Meanwhile:

2000-01 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

The player who achieved this isn't on your list.

[big123]

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Allen Iverson
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Steve Nash
8. Vince Carter
9. Tracy McGrady
10. Jason Kidd
11. Paul Pierce
12. Ray Allen
13. Chris Webber
14. Grant Hill
15. Gilbert Arenas

This was a list from basketball-reference's HOF probability. I wouldn't agree with it, but it's an interesting list and order.

I agree with the 1st 7, but would have Kidd instead of Nash. Clearly the most CONSISTENT PLAYERS of their respective careers.

Nash, T-Mac, Pierce, Carter, Billups etc have all been more inconsistent in terms of high quality individual production, whether it be slow start, injuries or slacking season.

Shaq=Great since his rookie year and just recently started to slow down. HOF

Duncan=ditto to Shaq, but still going strong. HOF

Kobe=Started a little slow, but has been the best talent with consistent elite numbers for a while now. HOF

Garnett=Great since he's been in the league. Probably as good as Duncan with less team success. HOF

Iverson=Great since he's been in the league and still putting up the same numbers or better 12 years later. HOF

Dirk=Started a little slow, but has been putting up big numbers for 8-9 years now. HOF

Kidd=Great since he's been in the league, big numbers and the most consistent PG/distributor, no active player PG come close. He's clearly on the decline now like Shaq though. HOF

McGrady=Started a little slow, but has been put up some great season for about 8 seasons now. Some better than other, but still consistent. Injury problems also has slowed him down. HOF bubble

Nash=has had multiple amazing seasons, but his first 4-5 seasons he was pretty much irrelevent. Same goes for Billups. HOF Bubble.

Carter=Been great since he's come in the league and has had some great years, but injuries have haunted him and pretty much has made his motivation and career inconsistent. HOF Bubble.

I don't think the rest are even considered for the HOF, at least not yet, maybe Pierce.

The only 2 youngsters that are well on their way to the HOF so far are Lebron and Wade.

[big123]

Due to the OP'S topic everything that happened pre-99/00 is irrelevant.

1. TD: If we were considering things that occurred prior to this decade, Shaq would be here.
2. Shaq: Highest peak, but the last two years you can question how much better he's been than an average player.
3. Kobe: Best offensive weapon of the decade.
4. KG: Great two-way player
5. Dirk: Really underrated here by a lot of people. He's made 8 All-NBA teams, had a three year stretch where he was considered a top 3 player.
6. Nash: For the decade the most dangerous offensive point guard in the NBA. The longevity argument against him doesn't really hold water, as demonstrated by previous posters.
7. Kidd: I've always felt Kidd is an overrated player. He, not Nash, is the guy who struggles in the half court. Because of his awful shooting, his massive skills at passing are diminished in the half court game, because people can always sag off him. Its the reason, in spite of playing on some talented offensive squads, only once in his career as his teams ranked in the top ten in offensive efficiency.
8. Iverson
9. McGrady
10. Lebron

From 2000 to 2004 Kidd was owning Nash. Nash was just becoming an elite PG in 04.

[KyleCleric]

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From 2000 to 2004 Kidd was owning Nash. Nash was just becoming an elite PG in 04.

2000 to 2004 represents half of the time period in question while 2004 to the present represents the other half

[big123]

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2000 to 2004 represents half of the time period in question while 2004 to the present represents the other half

Ok, I understand now. My mistake. I read it wrong, I thought he meant for the whole decade.

[sp6r=underrated]

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From 2000 to 2004 Kidd was owning Nash. Nash was just becoming an elite PG in 04.

Nash has made more All-NBA teams this decade than Kidd did, has appeared in the top 5 in MVP voting more times than Kidd, and the top 15 more times than Kidd. I don't see how you can say he's owned him this decade. People deservedly complain about Nash's defense, but ignore Kidd's awful shooting which is just as much if not more of a liability.

[big123]

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Nash has made more All-NBA teams this decade than Kidd did, has appeared in the top 5 in MVP voting more times than Kidd, and the top 15 more times than Kidd. I don't see how you can say he's owned him this decade. People deservedly complain about Nash's defense, but ignore Kidd's awful shooting which is just as much if not more of a liability.

I thought you meant for the entire decade. Sorry about that. Nash has defintely made his mark the last 4 seasons.