Marc Stein: Next in line Avery,Casey and TT

[JOHN]

Star Tribune sports columnist Pat Reusse says Wittman is a better tactician than Casey, and the team will probably start running better plays. But he doesn't think Casey should shoulders the blame for the team's erratic performance and he's skeptical a change in coaches will make a difference.

Thats a hilarious article considering what happened after they fired Casey in favor of Whittman.

Anyway, while with Minnesota, Coach Casey was never known for his ability to make in-game adjustments. But when a team (like, ahem, the Hawks last week) is raining outside jumpers all over your team, and a fan sitting at home watching on TV (like, ahem, me) is wondering why you

[dougthonus]

His time with Minnesota was short and as you said, it was a bad situation. That being said, google searches leave virtually nothing describing him as a coach. He should have some philosophies. I only found two vague comments saying that:

I think you'll find that if you search for such info on almost any coach, primarily one who's been an assistant you'll come up largely empty.

Also, the media at large likely does not understand the scheme differences, and if they did, then they're still not going to share them with the public, because the public at large wouldn't understand them either.

You were all for Thibodeau, and I would guess for the most part you couldn't answer those same questions about him.

To answer some of your questions, your own links describe him as a player's coach who's big on team unity. It would be implied he interacts will with players. He's was known as a great tactician when an assistant, but suddenly something doesn't work in a game as a head coach, and he's awful that way.

I think, what you have here, in a nutshell, is that it's easy to build up a great rep as an assistant, because people will give you credit for the good and tend to give the bad to the head coach. As a head coach, it's just the reverse. If things don't go brilliantly then you'll get all the blame.

[DuckIII]

I'm open minded. Tell me about Casey:
- What kind of offense does he run? How would it work with Bulls players?
- What kind of defense does he run? How would it work with Bulls players?
- How does he manage the team in games? Does he make adjustments?
- How does he interact with players? Is he a player's coach?
- How is he with player development? Does he believe in 1 on 1 training?

You know good and well that I can't answer those types of detailed questions, nor could anyone very likely answer them on this board.

You are the one who said he and Curry "don't bring much to the table" so why don't you answer the questions. You are the one fretting about how we are going to get stuck with a Boylan quality coach or worse now that D'Antoni is in New York. You are making negative statements about quality, and ignoring context, so I think you should be the one backing up what you are saying. But what you are doing is declaring ignorance, and then making negative assumptions. I don't get that.

I'm merely pointing to Casey's past success as a general matter and his past experience which includes being associate head coach under McMillan and, as you linked, tutledge under Newell and Sutton as well. Not too shabby. And given the generic proclomations that he believes in defense, team unity, and sharing the ball, thats enough for me right now.

His time with Minnesota was short and as you said, it was a bad situation. That being said, google searches leave virtually nothing describing him as a coach. He should have some philosophies.

What, you think there is a real risk that he doesn't "have philosophies"?

I only found two vague comments saying that:
- He isn't much of a tactician
- He isnt' good at in game adjustments

Well, there is a lot more objective information out there about Casey's experience and success that you seem to routinely ignore when discussing him, or just don't care about.

Note: I'm really not being a smart ass.

I don't think you are being a smart ass. I think you are being presumptively negative because you are pissed that D'Antoni is in New York. You've taken a bent since yesterday that everyone left is basically a bum because they don't have significant NBA head coaching experience - even the guy with NBA head coaching experience.

I know virtually nothing about him and freely admit it.

Thats not true. You don't know the nuances of the type of systems he runs, but you know plenty about his coaching history, who he's coached with, and what he's accomplished on the bottom line as an NBA head coach.

Note2: I love McMillan as a coach. If he is McMillan like, sign me up

I have no idea if he'w Nate McMillan. But I think we can fairly assume he shares some of Nate's philosophies since he was Nate's associate head coach.

[JOHN]

So why not have some TWolves fans over here?

Do any of them post anymore at the forum?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Dwane Casey was hired as the Head Coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves on June 17, 2005. Previously, he was with the Seattle SuperSonics for 11 seasons as an assistant coach with the last four years also serving as associate head coach.

Casey began coaching with Seattle for the 1994-95 season after spending five years as a head coach in Japan. During his time overseas, he coached Japan

[Jujuba69]

i dont know soo much about Pete Newell, Eddie Sutton, and Clem Haskins.

can someone help a bad b-ball history mind here?

[ikeziskash]

Just read K.C.'s article in the Trib today and it was loaded with the same lousy excuses from Paxson after missing out on other deals.

"It's not our fault"
"It wasn't fair that they didn't wait"

This is a reactive attitude instead of a pro active attitude. He was complaining that Dan Tony didn't wait for a week for them. Get it done Paxson. How about holding yourself to the same standards you wanted to hold for your players. Get off your behind and make it happen. Stop sitting around hoping and waiting.

[DuckIII]

Just read K.C.'s article in the Trib today and it was loaded with the same lousy excuses from Paxson after missing out on other deals.

There is a completely different thread for this type of discussion. Its fair commentary, but please take it there.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

i dont know soo much about Pete Newell, Eddie Sutton, and Clem Haskins.

can someone help a bad b-ball history mind here?

Pete Newell:

Peter Francis "Pete" Newell (born August 3, 1915 in Vancouver, British Columbia) is a former college men's basketball coach and current basketball instructional coach. He coached for 15 years at the University of San Francisco, Michigan State University and the University of California, Berkeley, compiling an overall 234-123 record.[1] After his coaching career ended he ran a world famous instructional basketball camp and served as a consultant and scout for several NBA teams. He is often considered to be one of the most influential figures in the history of basketball

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Newell
http://www.petenewellbigmancamp.net/



Eddie Sutton:

Eddie Sutton (born March 12, 1936 in Bucklin, Kansas) is the current interim head coach of the University of San Francisco and is only one of six major college men's basketball coaches to reach 800 career wins.

Sutton is the former head coach of several NCAA Division I men's basketball programs, most recently at Oklahoma State University, and has reached the NCAA Final Four three times. Sutton retired as head coach of Oklahoma State men's basketball following the 2005-2006 season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Sutton
http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml ... TCLID=6634

When someone thinks of consistency, there

[coldfish]

I think you'll find that if you search for such info on almost any coach, primarily one who's been an assistant you'll come up largely empty.

Also, the media at large likely does not understand the scheme differences, and if they did, then they're still not going to share them with the public, because the public at large wouldn't understand them either.

You were all for Thibodeau, and I would guess for the most part you couldn't answer those same questions about him.

- What kind of offense does he run? How would it work with Bulls players?
As a long time defensive assistant, its safe to assume that Thibodeau has no offensive system, or at least, no experience implementing whatever ideas he has. On Chicago, he would need an offensive assistant to avoid a Skiles like mess on offense.
- What kind of defense does he run? How would it work with Bulls players?
He has run a very similar system as the Bulls have when successful. That is, trap on the baseline, help and recover. Given how successful Chicago has been with this, I can only assume the Bulls would have a very good defense.
- How does he manage the team in games? Does he make adjustments?
With no head coaching experience, its tough to tell. I can discuss game 2 against Cleveland. Late in the game, the Celtics put Garnett on Wallace, then had him leave Wallace and follow and double the ball. It murdered Cleveland. It was also the type of precise in game adjustment I love to see in that it meshed player abilities with scheme to produce results. Given that it was Thibodeau talking during the timeouts, its safe to assume it was his idea.
- How does he interact with players? Is he a player's coach?
Players have raved about working with Thibodeau. This may change as head guy though.
- How is he with player development? Does he believe in 1 on 1 training?
Thibodeau gets good marks as an assistant in this regard, notably with Yao. His role as head coach would change, but its safe to say that, unlike Skiles, he believes in 1 on 1 coaching.

You know good and well that I can't answer those types of detailed questions, nor could anyone very likely answer them on this board.

You are the one who said he and Curry "don't bring much to the table" so why don't you answer the questions. You are the one fretting about how we are going to get stuck with a Boylan quality coach or worse now that D'Antoni is in New York. You are making negative statements about quality, and ignoring context, so I think you should be the one backing up what you are saying. But what you are doing is declaring ignorance, and then making negative assumptions. I don't get that.

See the above. I can answer it about Thibodeau. I don't have to answer it about anyone, just like you, but the fact that *no one* can answer them about Casey is a huge red flag. That's my point.

What, you think there is a real risk that he doesn't "have philosophies"?

Well, yes to an extent. Many coaches in the NBA seem to have a very weak commitment to one side of the ball or the other. I would like to know where Casey lies.

Well, there is a lot more objective information out there about Casey's experience and success that you seem to routinely ignore when discussing him, or just don't care about.

I really don't think the information about Casey is all that objective. Read your own posts. The evaluation of him is littered with clarifications and qualifiers which by themselves are subjective.

I just don't feel like getting drawn into a 10 page discussion about just how sucky his Minnesota team was, or was not. I could do a full page just on Wittman, who truly sucks as a coach, who is also the baseline for some of your comparisons.

Thats not true. You don't know the nuances of the type of systems he runs, but you know plenty about his coaching history, who he's coached with, and what he's accomplished on the bottom line as an NBA head coach.

Casey's situation in Minnesota:
- He took over a good team
- McHale executed several really stupid trades during his tenure
- The coach who replaced him is horrid and shortly after, the best player was traded

I really don't know what to make of him based on his time in Minnesota, given the roster turbulence. That's why I was looking for more detailed information in an attempt to extrapolate it to Chicago.

[coldfish]

-= original quote snipped =-
I think you are being presumptively negative because you are pissed that D'Antoni is in New York. You've taken a bent since yesterday that everyone left is basically a bum because they don't have significant NBA head coaching experience - even the guy with NBA head coaching experience.

That's not fair at all. I'm not happy about what happened with D'Antoni, but that doesn't impact this discussion.

Anyone who has read me in the past 4 years knows that I value the X's and O's of basketball. See my write up above of Garnett in Boston. I was just trying to discuss the X's and O's of Dwane Casey. Based on my google search, it didn't look good.

[BR0D1E86]

Clem Haskins:

In 1986, Haskins was hired by the University of Minnesota to rebuild the school's men's basketball program. He led his team to a school-record 31 wins and the Final Four in 1997,

Wasn't that final 4 stripped because of rampant cheating?

[DuckIII]

See the above. I can answer it about Thibodeau.

No you can't. Those are all assumptions with the exception of the basic defensive scheme. You are completely guessing about the rest of it or admitting that you have no idea.

I don't have to answer it about anyone, just like you, but the fact that *no one* can answer them about Casey is a huge red flag. That's my point.

I suspect Nate McMillan and Dwane Casey himself (and knowledgeable Wolves fans) can certainly answer them. The fact that Scoop Jackson, Ric Bucher and Wikipedia don't have detailed breakdowns of Dwane Casey's basketball strategies is so far from relevant that its stretches the mind to wonder why you are even attempting to make it into "a point" to begin with.

Frankly, I'm not even sure what "the point" is. What do you actually think it means that you can't locate this information in a google search?

Well, yes to an extent. Many coaches in the NBA seem to have a very weak commitment to one side of the ball or the other. I would like to know where Casey lies.

Defense. That is one point that I have consistently read over the years about Casey. He's defense first.

I really don't think the information about Casey is all that objective. Read your own posts. The evaluation of him is littered with clarifications and qualifiers which by themselves are subjective.

Oh. So you disagree with my assessment that the roster he had to work with in Minnesota was a poor one?

20-20 is an objective number. 9th rated defense when he was the coach for a full season is an objective number, coupled with the subjective opinion that he accomplished that with a garbage roster.

And the most important objective number of all is 12-30 the rest of the season after he was fired.

I just don't feel like getting drawn into a 10 page discussion about just how sucky his Minnesota team was, or was not. I could do a full page just on Wittman, who truly sucks as a coach, who is also the baseline for some of your comparisons.

No reason to debate how crappy that roster was since I would assume we can all agree it was garbage. If you don't agree, you are wrong. There really isn't much to debate.

Casey's situation in Minnesota:
- He took over a good team

Oh brother. You can't be serious.

- McHale executed several really stupid trades during his tenure

Oh, now I get it. Before Casey ever actually coached a game those trades were made. So why even start with the spin that he "took over a good team" when its not even the team he ended up coaching?

- The coach who replaced him is horrid and shortly after, the best player was traded

Again, why are you even mentioning the bolded part? What does the fact that Garnett was traded after that season ended have to do with the fact that Casey had that team at 20-20 and was followed by 12-30 once he was hired?

I really don't know what to make of him based on his time in Minnesota, given the roster turbulence. That's why I was looking for more detailed information in an attempt to extrapolate it to Chicago.

Roster turbulence? He coached one basic roster with the exception of a lateral trade consisting mostly of Wally for Ricky Davis. Then they added Foye in the draft.

We all want more detailed information. But the information we do have on Casey comes up positive.

You want Thibo with even less information given the fact that he's never even been a head coach in the NBA. We know Casey over-achieved in his stint. What do we "know" Thibo can do? Less. So your desire for more information, and the position that the absence of it is a negative, is entirely inconsistent with your opinion on Thibo.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

-= original quote snipped =-



Wasn't that final 4 stripped because of rampant cheating?

I believe so - but what does an aide writing term papers have to do with his coaching ability and in-game decisions?

[DuckIII]

Based on my google search, it didn't look good.

Based on your google search, it just didn't turn up anything other than a couple of articles written at the time Casey was fired suggesting Whittman would improve the team, which hindsight proves to have been laughably inaccurate.

Again, you are taking an absence of information to make a negative. So I think my comment was very fair.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Casey proven as talent developer

Monday, March 25, 2002

If Dwayne Casey is not on Barbara Hedges' list of potential head coaches for the Washington men's basketball team, then it has to mean Casey is still paying for being on the scene at a University of Kentucky recruiting scandal 14 years ago.

Otherwise, it's impossible not to look at the Sonics -- overachieving due to their coaching and environment -- and not envision Casey bringing that kind of atmosphere and success to Montlake.

Different worlds?

"As a coach, discipline is the No. 1 thing," Casey said. "You have to go to class. You have to be accountable, on and off the court. That's what parents want to hear and I believe that's what the players want, too.

"Joe Hall (at Kentucky) was one of the toughest and I still believe in that discipline and accountability."

Discipline and accountability are a few of the reasons the Sonics are where they are right now -- in position for the NBA playoffs.

Casey is part of a coaching crew that has successfully turned its attention to developing draft picks.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/cbasketba ... cs25.shtml

[coldfish]

No you can't. Those are all assumptions with the exception of the basic defensive scheme. You are completely guessing about the rest of it or admitting that you have no idea.

At least I have a guess, and its a pretty educated one.

- removed most of this because it had nothing to do with the thread -

[Magilla_Gorilla]

In a bit of statistical synchronicity the Randy Wittman helmed Wolves are going to hit both the mark at which former coach Dwayne Casey was fired (40 games into the season) and the 82nd game of Witt

[Magilla_Gorilla]

At least I have a guess,

I'm not goingg to jump into the middle of this - but can I nominate this as the "Least Persuasive Answer Ever".

[nitetrain8603]

Yea, I'm not really for Thib over Casey or vice versa, but you're guessing coldfish like Duck would be guessing.