Todd Ramasar Day May Be Coming Soon

[Sleepy51]

Now you're just being intentionally difficult. CDR or Rush may be there. DJ Augustin may be there. Alexander, Gordon, McGee, Batum, Love, lots of volatile draft value out there. Teams WILL be acting funny. There are a lot of good NBA rotation players to be had.

But not for the short-sighted, I suppose.

CDR & Rush will not be there at 19 because we're taking Rush at 14 and CDR is going far earlier becuase people are stupid. Augustin is the last PG on the board who matters. Possibly, but unlikely he lasts. No one in your second list is lasting past 15.

There are surprises, and hidden gems which can't realistically be accounted for, but overall, it's safe to say that there are NEVER "a lot of good NBA rotation players to be had" in any draft.

There are less than 10 guys who will be career starters/stars in each draft class. Maybe another 10 will have consistent productive rotation careers and/or start for bad teams. The other 10 poseurs in the first round are second rounders who fooled somebody. The odds of a player not being completely irrelevant after pick 20 are reliablly poor. There are exceptions to everything, but as a rule, building a trade around a pick from a perennial conference finalist is the proverbial pu pu platter.

[Mylie10]

The facts are simple.

Baron won't get the money he's seeking from the Warriors.
He's going to be a big expiring contract and little else in the Warriors longterm plans.
Robert Rowell is very interested in what the league will offer for such a large expiring contract in one of the final years of big cap relief lust.
No move of Baron's expiring contract will come before the draft is long over so talking in terms of trading him FOR draft picks is still a bit misleading. He'd be traded for already drafted players.
Chances are pretty good that would be too late for Don Nelson and the whole thing will be a huge mess by then.
The Warriors are heading into this season, as Gump rightly pointed out, with about the same exact players they ended the season with and about the same exact caliber of vet minimum stiffs, probably no Pietrus, possibly Azubuike, and a draft pick.

The pooch is already screwed.

Best post in 2 days.Nice job! Took ya awhile.

Not so sure about the huge mess part.

Next year could be a nice surprise with the emergence of BWright into a prominent role. If we can somehow get another first or early second then we may get some ready to contribute talent through the draft that Nellie might actually play. And Baron might just surprise you and be a good guy after all.

[Sleepy51]

Way too defensive about Baron... there is no way he can succeed going into next year. If he performs well for 82 games, he did it for the paycheck and teams will still be wary...

I'm really not defensive about Baron at all. I just get a little "enthusiastic" when pointing out double-talking bull s

[Sleepy51]

- Baron cannot play 2nd fiddle for a team - his ego demands #1. As hurtful as that may be, its truth.

What's cute is that both your's and Rowell's Baron trade proposals had gotten significantly better from a "pro-Warrior" perspective as we got some distance from the dissapointement of the season end. The "hurtful" blurb by his incompetent agent has really gotten your guys dander up, because now we've got 40 pages of rehash and a Damon Jones trade.

You guys take every Baron reltated snippet very personally.

[Chris Cohan]

I think we all agree that Baron Davis will be a Warrior to start the season. What else have you been talking about this weekend?

Ramasar wants talk and he wants the team to look bad in this. He thinks that's the way to get what he and Baron want. NO ONE has had a convincing argument for meeting any of their demands at any time, this weekend included.


If a decent player is on the board when Cleveland drafts, Sleepy, you owe me five Real GM bucks.

[Sleepy51]

Whoopsy and Ramsmar are the only ones who want Baron to get stupid money from the W's.

If there's a decent player left on the board at 19 (that isn't a complete sleeper) it will mean we took the wrong damn player (again) at 14 and you will owe ME five real GM bucks.

Unless a can't miss player is in range, draft picks are crap. I would have traded at least 9 of our last 13 picks.

[Chris Cohan]

I think you're wrong about this year's draft.

I'd prefer to make possible reaches with bottom half first round picks on players like Landry, Dudley, Millsap, Boozer (!), DJ White, Joey Dorsey, instead of try to get someone who will hopefully immediately be ready to do the one thing most NBA draft picks have spent the most amount of time doing anyway - score.

The strong system bigs and solid smart players who know how to play but might not add double digit points in the immediate future have consistently been passed up by team after team and yet everyone knew Landry was good, everyone saw that Boozer was good but considered a little short, and folks knew Afflalo or Dudley would add a lot to a team's depth at the minimum.

I agree with you about the Warriors' draft choices-- they're mostly crap-- but the draft has changed dramatically in the last three years and I value it more highly than many NBA teams do. That will change soon and this s the time to take advantage of the teams that lag behind.

Unfortunately, last year's draft choices and treatment told us all we needed to know about what mentality is driving day-to-day roster decisions. So if I'm being rational about this, giving extra draft picks to this draft team is sort of a waste of time more often than not.

Ellis and Biedrins aside.

[FNQ]

-= original quote snipped =-



What's cute is that both your's and Rowell's Baron trade proposals had gotten significantly better from a "pro-Warrior" perspective as we got some distance from the dissapointement of the season end. The "hurtful" blurb by his incompetent agent has really gotten your guys dander up, because now we've got 40 pages of rehash and a Damon Jones trade.

You guys take every Baron reltated snippet very personally.

Are you kiddin me? That quote is hilarious... We hurt Baron's agent's feelings!

Aside from some stretching it deals... there have been some good potential deals for Baron. Kidd/Bass, Mobley/Maggette(or Livi)/#6, and a potential Baron for Bibby/Marvin type deal...

[Sleepy51]

The deals were definitely more interesting before guys went wild with Ramsmania. But trading Baron to the Clippers if Brand is retained is in no way a "pro-Warrior" move.

[warriortone]

ROWELL is absolutely crushing it in this thread. One question though...what good did it do to extend Nelson if the FO knew they weren't going to cave to Baron's demands and probably won't be making a major win now trade involving what should be our future in Biedrins, Ellis and Wright?

[FNQ]

Its the money tone...

Nellie can squeeze usefulness in a gimmick offense with players who would be scrubs elsewhere... pays them minimally. Meanwhile the team is 'contending' for the playoffs, and playing an exciting brand of ball. Ticket spikes. Big time profits for the franchise...

Nellie realized all this and gouged Cohan for all he could... 5.1 base salary... They're partners in the heist.

[Mylie10]

Partners in the heist, but clearly the answer's only a couple of good players away.

We are closer to playoff relevance than you'd have us believe. We can be a good team in the future and also contend seriously without all of the crazy blow it up scenarios.

[Chris Cohan]

Partners in the heist, but clearly the answer's only a couple of good players away.

We are closer to playoff relevance than you'd have us believe. We can be a good team in the future and also contend seriously without all of the crazy blow it up scenarios.

It's not a blow-up, it's a staged salary purge that was charted three years ago, when Robert Rowell assumed significant responsibilities for basketball decisions that involved longterm and/or substantial cash commitment.

Mullin hasn't issued a major contract in some time for a reason. Rowell exercised Nelson's contract- a surprisingly publicized fact- and Rowell met with Ramasar et al. Mullin was telling Geoff Lepper he wouldn't discuss contracts until after Baron's option deadline had passed. He was telling Lepper this FRIDAY, May 9th. It's more Mullin BS, in part, but that's irrelevant. Mullin has nothing to say about Baron Davis' contract offer from the Warriors besides what he is told to say.

[Mylie10]

I agree with you Ro, more than you think.

I also think the FO is looking forward to having his contract come off the books.

One more competetive year with Baron putting butts in the seats, and then they decide whether there's a good deal or just free up the dough and target some players.

I think the public Nelson contract has to do with public relations. They've forced Nellie to make the decision and remove any kind of wrangling from the poker player. If he says no, they don't look bad.

If he says yes, then fine, one more year of nice revenue, with a possible playoff appearance.

To me the way to go is to get meaningful help. Any way possible, we have to add not subtract from our thin group of competent players.

Wright has to play 25 minutes.

We have to have a competent back-up center.

We can't have Pietrus here any longer.

We have to pick up another draft pick and hope we pick correctly.

Obviously re-sign Beans and Monta.

Competent back-up PG to reduce Baron and Monta's minutes.

[Chris Cohan]

I agree with you Ro, more than you think.

I also think the FO is looking forward to having his contract come off the books.

One more competetive year with Baron putting butts in the seats, and then they decide whether there's a good deal or just free up the dough and target some players.

I think the public Nelson contract has to do with public relations. They've forced Nellie to make the decision and remove any kind of wrangling from the poker player. If he says no, they don't look bad.

If he says yes, then fine, one more year of nice revenue, with a possible playoff appearance.

To me the way to go is to get meaningful help. Any way possible, we have to add not subtract from our thin group of competent players.

Wright has to play 25 minutes.

We have to have a competent back-up center.

We can't have Pietrus here any longer.

We have to pick up another draft pick and hope we pick correctly.

Obviously re-sign Beans and Monta.

Competent back-up PG to reduce Baron and Monta's minutes.

I think you mentioned Brandan Wright being a positive addition of sorts for this season when I was talking about screwed pooches elsewhere - correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree completely with this sentiment, though. I'm a big BWright Believer and I wanted him playing a ton immediately to learn how to use his skills to be effective even if he can't bruise down low. That's not going to be his role in the NBA anyway, probably ever, and it's not why he was drafted. He is a SKILL player at the 4. He needs to learn how to make that work. He's already well on his way and Al Harrington is an issue that is not talked about enough.

I still see Al being on the move and Al CAN be moved for draft help and perhaps expiring money or a reserve wing of consequence.

There was no long weekend clamor when the news of Al being mobile broke. We're not as attached to him.

But after watching Baron freeze out Wright when he worked HARD for position and HAD IT, I'm not at all concerned about ditching Baron now. He was playing for himself when it counted and I've seen him (and Al and Stephen) screw with youth before. The claims of his brilliant leadership and good influence are overdone and reflect only his best act in successive contract years under Don Nelson. The act was not consistent enough to suggest he can even fake it for long enough to make a difference. He did not this year and this year was go-time. He blew it.

He was a pain in the a$$ under Monty, Scott, and anyone else who had youth and needed an adult to help lead by example on the court.

Too little, too late from his PR advisors.

[GSWhoopfan]

Partners in the heist, but clearly the answer's only a couple of good players away.

We are closer to playoff relevance than you'd have us believe. We can be a good team in the future and also contend seriously without all of the crazy blow it up scenarios.

and Baron is a player that will be extremely useful. The Warriors are 1 bully away from the 8 seed (ie: Joey Dorsey in the draft cause we cant get a bruiser via trade). If the Warriors add depth we are legit in the West.

48 wins last year was great, its not a bad thing. We didnt make the playoffs with 48 freakin wins. This isnt a FAILURE. Give Baron and Nellie depth.

if we can make 1 key addition, id get Ron Artest. The bully of the bullies. Warriors lack the inside presence. Ron Artest holds his own on the block.

Of all the playoff teams, name a team that had 1 inside presence. All the teams had a couple of them. The Warriors had Biedrins and thats all. Nellie had no choice but to but in Barnes and Pietrus in the 4 slots. Dont say he was going to put in Wright or POB.

Baron Davis isnt the reason we didnt make the playoffs. Its really unfair to blame Baron or Nellie. If we were playoff locks, then yes blame them. But they really took us farther down the road than we were suppose to go. I didnt expect 48 wins with the loss of JR at the beginning of the season.

The Warriors situation isnt in blow up mode. Just add some depth. Bring in some size.