What is the best position to build around?

Troubadour · Post #1 » by **Troubadour** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:57 am

Logic would point to a C or PF, but some of the best dynasties in NBA history - MJ, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, etc. - were built around wing players and point guards.

Nowadays, most of the best teams - Hornets, Lakers, Cavaliers, Pistons - are built around guards.

Thoughts?

shawngoat23 · Post #2 » by **shawngoat23** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:16 am

Definitely center.

Larry Bird (Parish) and Isiah Thomas (Laimbeer) were certainly leaders of their teams, but they had excellent centers.

JordansBulls · Post #3 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:18 am

For the last 50 years here is how each title team was built.

2006-2007 San Antonio Spurs - PF
2005-06 Miami Heat-C or SG
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs-PF
2003-04 Detroit Pistons-N/A
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs-PF
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers-C
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers-C
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers-C
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs-PF
1997-98 Chicago Bulls-SG
1996-97 Chicago Bulls-SG
1995-96 Chicago Bulls-SG
1994-95 Houston Rockets-C
1993-94 Houston Rockets-C
1992-93 Chicago Bulls-SG
1991-92 Chicago Bulls-SG
1990-91 Chicago Bulls-SG
1989-90 Detroit Pistons-PG
1988-89 Detroit Pistons-PG
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers-PG
1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers-PG
1985-86 Boston Celtics-SF
1984-85 Los Angeles Lakers-PG
1983-84 Boston Celtics-SF
1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers-C
1981-82 Los Angeles Lakers-C or PG
1980-81 Boston Celtics-SF
1979-80 Los Angeles Lakers-C
1978-79 Seattle SuperSonics-PG or SG
1977-78 Washington Bullets-PF
1976-77 Portland Trail Blazers-C
1975-76 Boston Celtics-C
1974-75 Golden State Warriors-SF
1973-74 Boston Celtics-SG/SF
1972-73 New York Knicks-PG
1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers-SG/SF
1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks-C
1969-70 New York Knicks-C
1968-69 Boston Celtics-C
1967-68 Boston Celtics-C
1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers-C
1965-66 Boston Celtics-C
1964-65 Boston Celtics-C
1963-64 Boston Celtics-C
1962-63 Boston Celtics-C
1961-62 Boston Celtics-C
1960-61 Boston Celtics-C
1959-60 Boston Celtics-C
1958-59 Boston Celtics-C
1957-58 St. Louis Hawks-PF
1956-57 Boston Celtics-C

So in 50 years, here are the positional breakdowns:

C: 24
PF: 6
SF: 5
SG: 8
PG: 6

Post #4 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:26 am

Thats if you count Duncan as a PF^^

Troubadour · Post #5 » by **Troubadour** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:28 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Thats if you count Duncan as a PF^^

The more recent Spurs championships I would have put down as centre, but in '99 Duncan played with Robinson, so I agree with that listing.

Post #6 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:37 am

He was still a C to me, playing Steve Nash and Jason Kidd together wouldn't make one of them a SG.

T-Spot · Post #7 » by **T-Spot** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:42 am

And 6 of those SG titles were Jordan's and you could argue that might never happen again.

j-ragg · Post #8 » by **j-ragg** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:45 am

To me, it doesn't matter if Duncan is considered either position.

You have to build around a dominant big man, albeit a PF or C.

Then just have the other big man compliment him.

Post #9 » by **eyriq** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:13 am

Yup, its a center. I guess that is because the good ones can dominate the game like no other position can because their size and strength dominates the paint. Does that mean the paint is the most important part of the court then? Yup.

Cybulski37 · Post #10 » by **Cybulski37** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:22 am

Center/PF(very little difference, really), then PG, unless we're talking about a special wing player(Jordan)

Alex_De_Large · Post #11 » by **Alex_De_Large** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:03 am

C by far, because there are a only a few who are really good there.

kooldude · Post #12 » by **kooldude** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:22 pm

j-ragg wrote:To me, it doesn't matter if Duncan is considered either position.

You have to build around a dominant big man, albeit a PF or C.

Then just have the other big man compliment him.

Then why are the top 10 bigman ever, at least 8 of them are centers?

kooldude · Post #13 » by **kooldude** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:23 pm

T-Spot wrote:And 6 of those SG titles were Jordan's and you could argue that might never happen again.

So you don't count Wade's Finals MVP has a SG achievement?

conleyorbust · Post #14 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:07 pm

T-Spot wrote:And 6 of those SG titles were Jordan's and you could argue that might never happen again.

Not really a point worth making seeing as that there will never be another Magic or Shaq either.

The best position to build around is the one where the most impactful player is. Center is the position that can most easily impact the game but you'd rather have a superstar SF than an all-star C.

tmac4real · Post #15 » by **tmac4real** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:30 pm

Center, rather easily. Unless you count on ur 2 guard being MJ or having a Magic calibre PG.

Post #16 » by **Harry Palmer** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:40 pm

Word I heard is the game is changing.

mudyez · Post #17 » by **mudyez** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:41 pm

its proofen, that centers impact the defensive game more than pg (actually its just C->PF->SF->SG->PG)

on the offensive end PG's have a slight endge and I would give them some bonus points, coz you want your best player to have the ball in his hands a lot

overall a dominant bigman can anker the defense and also be the focus at the other end...so I'm going with the center too

Post #18 » by **Harry Palmer** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:52 pm

mudyez wrote:its proofen, that centers impact the defensive game more than pg (actually its just C->PF->SF->SG->PG)

Not really.

The most important defensive position is center, yes, by a mile.

But after that it might be point guard. Well, not that your point guard needs to be your next best defender, just that having a weak defensive player will hurt you more at the point than anywhere but at center.

Stopping the ball is job 1A for a defense. Dribble penetration weakness can kill a defense, because other defenders have to collapse right off the bat, setting your team up for all kinds of problems elsewhere.

So no, you don't have to have a defensive stud at the 1, and one there won't help you as much as at center, or possibly even at another position where they can guard 2 or 3 positions, but having a glaring weakness at the point hurts you more than any position other than center.

mudyez · Post #19 » by **mudyez** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:38 pm

[quote="Harry Palmer"][/quote]

I really can't find it, but it was said on 82games.com as they tried to calculate who is the best defensive player (lue finished last)

for me its clear, that C+PF will dominate at D as they are right at the basket and thats where you want to score...they will change/block shots, while other players cant get a steal so often

but I have to agree with you: I have a really good PG-defender (she isnt our pg but my fastest player) and it gives us so much, that I can pressure the opposing PG any time without needing any help from others

statistically it was as I wrote(its about how the whole team defends and a defensive good PG didnt impact the game as much as a defensive SG or SF), but I agree that in real life its more like C->PF->PG->Wings

Aragorn · Post #20 » by **Aragorn** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:28 pm

In the past 10-15 years, most of the #1 picks in the draft have been centers -TD, Yao, D12, Brand, Oden, Bogut, Kandi, Kwame, etc. It always seems to be a need for teams.

mudyez wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
for me its clear, that C+PF will dominate at D as they are right at the basket and thats where you want to score...they will change/block shots, while other players cant get a steal so oftens

I would definitely choose to build around a center for these reasons.