BARON: Better or Worse?

[Mylie10]

Some say Baron can't win a championship. But I feel that the Warriors biggest problem is the overall depth of the team.

Do you think Baron would be better or worse for the following teams:

Lakers: Baron > Fisher

Celtics: Baron > Rondo

Cleveland: Baron > West/Boobie/crap

Detroit: Baron < Billups

Orlando: Baron > Nelson


Obviously New Orleans and Utah are in very good hands. But this has not as much to do with Baron than it does for how good Paul and Deron are.

I truly believe that Baron would upgrade most of those teams and could be a NBA champion with the right mix of players.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE................................. yet.

[Chris Cohan]

Yes, send him to any of those teams please.

[Mylie10]

Yes, send him to any of those teams please.

Hey Ro I just wanted to say that this Baron discussion has been the most interesting thing I've read around her for awhile....Thanks for that.

[Chris Cohan]

Some of the discussion around this issue has been really good, agree.

You're pushing a strong pro-Baron stance today. Not supporting it with many of the relevant facts or considerations but certainly making sure he has defenders who jive with he and his agents preferred stories about his greatness and how it's everyone else's fault he hasn't won a championship yet.

Is that Ellis in your picture or someone else?

[Thugleavy34]

The thing about Baron is that for the money he commands and the style plays he pretty much has to be a number one guy---unless a team splurges like Boston and can pair him with other go-to options. Put Baron on a team with a contending nucleus and it's a great thing. But on a team that's developing, building around Baron isn't the wisest choice. As an added piece, he can be invaluable to a contending team.

[Sid the Squid]

Comes down to the fact that Baron can't shoot....He's the 12th highest paid player in the league and he lays bricks for a living...

[FNQ]

The thing about Baron is that for the money he commands and the style plays he pretty much has to be a number one guy---unless a team splurges like Boston and can pair him with other go-to options. Put Baron on a team with a contending nucleus and it's a great thing. But on a team that's developing, building around Baron isn't the wisest choice. As an added piece, he can be invaluable to a contending team.

Much like Nellie going into last season, we've surpassed the need for Baron... he believes he is a franchise player (and maybe a leader), and he's not either.

With Monta and Biedrins' big money coming up, its now the financial passing of the torch... Baron should be history.

With the other teams? I'm not so sure, even if you ignore the financials, that Baron makes them championship teams... the only team I could see him making really better is Orlando.. they have 2 guys who can shoot the lights out in Shard and Hedo, plus a big time presence inside... every other team either has ball dominators..

But even in ORL they'd have to convince him not to shoot 6 3pters per game. Nellie did it for half a season (4.1 2nd half of last year)...

[Mylie10]

If you don't think that Baron would make the Celtics even better then i don't know what to tell you.

This has nothing to do with salaries, but more a rebuttal to Baron can't win a championship.

My argument is not that Baron is perfect player or team-mate. But merely that considering our total roster, he's a damn good fit with Monta and they give us our best chance to win currently.

If another scenario proves to be better down the road then i'll be behind it fully.

I'm not mister Ramasars press agent and I could care less what Baron ends up getting. What I want is for the Warriors to be damn good and until there's a real good deal for us I'm fine with contract year Baron or opt out Baron.

I think it's ridiculous to think that Baron's all bad all day. That's just hateraid talking and he's shown to be a good team-mate here. Even though he played some horrible basketball in some games.

Baron and Monta make for a damn good punch. Both are penetrators and if you take one away, you better get someone else in here who penetrates.

My picture is of high school monta, my son's and my favorite player.

[Mylie10]

What if the Danny Ainge never had the balls to pull off the Ray Allen deal?

McHale would have had to swallow his gum and chew on our REAL offer, that didn't include giving up Biedrins.

Garnett flat out said he didn't think the Warriors would have enough left if we dealt for him. But he said that based on what the so-called response from what McHale wanted. Not what the Warriors were actually willing to give.

You take Ainge out of this deal and I feel the Warriors would have won out.

Now Baron, Jack, Beans, and Garnett is formidable. I think Baron could be the second man to a Garnett or a Brand or at least an equal.

Baron has yet to be on a team with a big time star. He is now, but the league is just learning his name.

[Chris Cohan]

Again, you're building up quite the hero's tale but the facts just don't add up to Baron being anything more than a sometimes-first-round playoff scoring machine and a usually ineffective but talented player. Hard to swallow since we've gotten the best out of the "institutionally" successful gamble on him so recently, but facts is facts: he's either been hurt or terrible far moreoften than he's been a top-45 talent on the court.

Now he and Ramasar are being idiots when their fate is sealed in Oakland for most of their intents and purposes and those with an eye toward the actual Warriors future don't need to wax unduly sentimental over a career washout who's gunning for one more big pay day before retirement. Period.

[Mylie10]

How is it a hero's tale?

The facts are that since he's been here the franchise has rebounded - Fact

He's not had the type of talent around him that most of the other playoff teams have had - fact

Check his record since a good player has arrived who can actually ball some.

Go ahead and look up Baron and Jacks win loss total while both were playing.

Get back to me and let me know how meaningless that record is will ya.

[The_Believer]

Baron on the Pistons would lead them to multiple ships with the talent they have. I don't want him there.

[Thugleavy34]

If you don't think that Baron would make the Celtics even better then i don't know what to tell you.

This has nothing to do with salaries, but more a rebuttal to Baron can't win a championship.

My argument is not that Baron is perfect player or team-mate. But merely that considering our total roster, he's a damn good fit with Monta and they give us our best chance to win currently.

If another scenario proves to be better down the road then i'll be behind it fully.

I'm not mister Ramasars press agent and I could care less what Baron ends up getting. What I want is for the Warriors to be damn good and until there's a real good deal for us I'm fine with contract year Baron or opt out Baron.

I think it's ridiculous to think that Baron's all bad all day. That's just hateraid talking and he's shown to be a good team-mate here. Even though he played some horrible basketball in some games.

Baron and Monta make for a damn good punch. Both are penetrators and if you take one away, you better get someone else in here who penetrates.

My picture is of high school monta, my son's and my favorite player.

I'm not a Baron hater. If I'm a Baron hater, than I'm a hater of 95% of the league. It's a money and philosophy issue. He's one of my favorite players to watch. Of course he can win a championship somewhere. I've never been a guy to say so-and-so can't win a championship. He's supremely talented and very entertaining, and he can will the team to a win on any given night. But...he's not consistant and he's not disciplined, which I consider to be instrumental in the leadership of an organization. There are many great talents in the NBA, there are a few of them I believe in paying star money. Of course, a nonstar isn't worth star money no matter what. But Baron is a star, and for a star like Baron, he's going to command that money regardless. I don't believe in conforming to the market in this respect. The price of talent often isn't worth it without the leadership needed to utilize that talent in leading a team. I'd rather pay less for a guy who can play his respective role on the team rather than pay more for a guy who isn't a leader. Those leaders are few and far in between. They're worth the doe. On a team in the presence of another guy who is a leader, Baron could be more than worth his salt. But then would he really be deserving of the highest paid contract on the team? Baron, if he comes back, will be our highest paid player. He will be our leader, only, like 95% of the league, he isn't a great leader. It's money down the drain.

[TB]

Using Boston as an example of "Baron can win a championship" is more of a sarcastic approach than anything. I mean, we all know Baron can ball, so putting him onto a team with 3 possible hall of famers would definitely allow him to win a championship. PG is a weak spot of theirs, they dont have any real creators, and Baron instantly becomes their best late game player.

So yes, Baron CAN win a championship. But Baron as your best player will NOT win a championship.

All that being said, i'm still a big Boom Dizzle fan, its just a shame he costs so much and doesn't fit the direction we need to go. Even though i'm in the trade/fire Baron/Nellie camp, they are Warrior legends to me for making us relevant and providing an amazing playoff run.

[nismolos]

How is it a hero's tale?

The facts are that since he's been here the franchise has rebounded - Fact

He's not had the type of talent around him that most of the other playoff teams have had - fact

Check his record since a good player has arrived who can actually ball some.

Go ahead and look up Baron and Jacks win loss total while both were playing.

Get back to me and let me know how meaningless that record is will ya.

I agree. And this team needs depth. I think its pretty homerish to think that we can afford to lose baron without equal compensation and relying solely on the growth of Monta, Andris, and Bwright to carry this franchise. I love Monta, but if Baron isn't a franchise player... Monta isn't either. Baron is the closest thing we have to a franchise player. His salary sucks, he has a few bad games... ok. Who doesnt??? Well...maybe CP3. But even the MVP (Kobe) has bad games. Baron proved he can stay healthy for a whole season and other than his shot...he's an all-around great player/talent. Losing Baron is a step backwards unless we can replace him with an equally effective player.

Can we manage with Monta, Andris, and Bwright? I think so... at .500 ball. Lets face it...we need all the weapons we can get. The west is packed with too much talent. If we can extend Baron for the right price...why the hell not??

[GQ Hot Dog]

I don't understand why this is such a debate. No backcourt player in modern history has been able to take his team to the top echelon without a near equal frontcourt player alongside him(unless his name was Michael Jordan but I hope it wasn't really necessary to mention that.)

Kobe/Gasol
Parker/Duncan
Paul/West
Williams/Boozer

I could go on but these are the top four teams in the West and Baron and the Dubs aren't going to graduate to that level until a forward/center of that caliber is brought in.

This is the most simple equation in professional sports yet somehow Baron should be immune from it? Why do I even need to make this point? If we could get a top tier big in exchange for Baron I might just do it and count on Monta to man the ship. But tell me what big is available?

All of you know that Baron's percentages and consistency would go up dramatically if he had a top tier frontcourt scorer to work with which he has never had. Jamal Mashburn at the tail end of his career? Please. Baron needs help like every other great guard needs help, Baron just hasn't ever had it.

[Mylie10]

I don't understand why this is such a debate. No backcourt player in modern history has been able to take his team to the top echelon without a near equal frontcourt player alongside him(unless his name was Michael Jordan but I hope it wasn't really necessary to mention that.)

Kobe/Gasol
Parker/Duncan
Paul/West
Williams/Boozer

I could go on but these are the top four teams in the West and Baron and the Dubs aren't going to graduate to that level until a forward/center of that caliber is brought in.

This is the most simple equation in professional sports yet somehow Baron should be immune from it? Why do I even need to make this point? If we could get a top tier big in exchange for Baron I might just do it and count on Monta to man the ship. But tell me what big is available?

All of you know that Baron's percentages and consistency would go up dramatically if he had a top tier frontcourt scorer to work with which he has never had. Jamal Mashburn at the tail end of his career? Please. Baron needs help like every other great guard needs help, Baron just hasn't ever had it.

Thank you for this post, it clearly illustrates the FACT, that one man can't do it alone.

For the 1000th time, if we find something better, than great. Until then use him and try surrounding him with enough pieces to actually be a strong contender.

And i used the Celtics as an example because of others saying you can't win with Baron. Baron won't play second fiddle to anyone. that's BS.

Don't you guys think Baron is better than Fisher? I do.

You give B dominant big man and some bench depth and then we can truly evaluate his championship caliber.

Yes he takes bad shots.

[Chris Cohan]

There's no way to flesh out a better roster this year if you sign Ellis, Biedrins, AND BARON DAVIS AT HIS DEMANDED RATE.

So if you're on the "sign Baron and put championship pieces around him" push, you're calling for what Mullin tried to do last year with Nelson: trade Ellis and Biedrins for an aging superstar and 2-3 years of going for it all with Nelson and Baron before the wheels fall off and the cupboards are bare.

Baron Davis is not winning a championship as a Warrior, how about that? So do him a favor and send him somewhere else to prove you all completely wrong about his championship pedigree post contract signing.

[Mylie10]

There's no way to flesh out a better roster this year if you sign Ellis, Biedrins, AND BARON DAVIS AT HIS DEMANDED RATE.

So if you're on the "sign Baron and put championship pieces around him" push, you're calling for what Mullin tried to do last year with Nelson: trade Ellis and Biedrins for an aging superstar and 2-3 years of going for it all with Nelson and Baron before the wheels fall off and the cupboards are bare.

Baron Davis is not winning a championship as a Warrior, how about that? So do him a favor and send him somewhere else to prove you all completely wrong about his championship pedigree post contract signing.

We're not winning a champiuoship around here anytime soon as long as the FO is cheap and cares only about the Lux tax.

I don't disagree with the money take at all Ro. It's the fact that no matter what we're not getting to the conference finals unless the fiscal stuff isn't quite as important to the owner.

[Chris Cohan]

Whining about ownership is a waste of time. Rowell was instrumental in shedding the Foyle, Murphy, Dunleavy, Fisher, and Richardson contracts within a very impressive and tiny window and he kept Mullin from signing Barnes to a longterm deal. Pietrus was obvious but Mullin is friends with Pete and having a hard time letting go.

And now it's Rowell, not Mullin, making sure Baron Davis does not take over the team because he wants more money to make bad movies with.

Rowell could win executive of the year if his work were publicized instead of using the Mullin Proxy to deflect outsider attention.