never mistake activity for achievement

[Relative Autonomy]

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Agreed, I dont know how someone cant think KG is the main reason for this years turnaround? I mean if not KG is it the hotdog vendor in section 311?

maybe there is no main reason. maybe its a combination of many factors: the players and their personalities, the coaching , the management, the schedule. maybe the only reason people think KG is the main reason that obfuscates all other factors is becuase he has a whole media machine propping him up, gatorade commercials building him up like he's the hero in some bs hollywood epic movie, what the **** is that?

you know what, **** it. i'm done with realgm. it seems all do is piss off people here and come of like an ****. i'm done. sorry for daring to criticize KG.

[MyInsatiableOne]

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maybe there is no main reason. maybe its a combination of many factors: the players and their personalities, the coaching , the management, the schedule. maybe the only reason people think KG is the main reason that obfuscates all other factors is becuase he has a whole media machine propping him up, gatorade commercials building him up like he's the hero in some bs hollywood epic movie, what the **** is that?

you know what, **** it. i'm done with realgm. it seems all do is piss off people here and come of like an ****. i'm done. sorry for daring to criticize KG.

It's not that you dared to criticize KG, it's that you contribute to the overwhelming negativity around here just cos we lost 1 **** game. Where were all these critiques of KG during the regular season? If he isn't a franchise player now, how could he have been during the regular season, hmm?

[Relative Autonomy]

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It's not that you dared to criticize KG, it's that you contribute to the overwhelming negativity around here just cos we lost 1 **** game. Where were all these critiques of KG during the regular season? If he isn't a franchise player now, how could he have been during the regular season, hmm?

i haven't really ever been enamored with KG. it has nothing to do with the fact that they lost game 3.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

the board didn't appreciate these sentiments in the regular season, either. so i'm done with realgm after this thread. i used to think this was place where people could talk about sports, have some laughs and, most iimporantly, good conversations but you can't even disagree anymore. if you're contrarian you labeled not a fan. **** this bull. i'm done.

[Tricky Ricky]

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maybe there is no main reason. maybe its a combination of many factors: the players and their personalities, the coaching , the management, the schedule. maybe the only reason people think KG is the main reason that obfuscates all other factors is becuase he has a whole media machine propping him up, gatorade commercials building him up like he's the hero in some bs hollywood epic movie, what the **** is that?

you know what, **** it. i'm done with realgm. it seems all do is piss off people here and come of like an ****. i'm done. sorry for daring to criticize KG.

Who the hell cares about the media, and hes still the biggest Celtic since Bird. Honestly what would our record be if the KG trade never happened?

[screwedupmaniac]

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i haven't really ever been enamored with KG. it has nothing to do with the fact that they lost game 3.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

the board didn't appreciate these sentiments in the regular season, either. so i'm done with realgm after this thread. i used to think this was place where people could talk about sports, have some laughs and, most iimporantly, good conversations but you can't even disagree anymore. if you're contrarian you labeled not a fan. **** this bull. i'm done.

lol yes we CAN disagree, i think we pretty much showed that in this thread. you're entitled to your oppinion, but we are not obligated to agree with it or you.

[Relative Autonomy]

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Who the hell cares about the media, and hes still the biggest Celtic since Bird. Honestly what would our record be if the KG trade never happened?

your statement is an irrelevant counter-factual. it makes your argument appear strong but, in fact, it is untestable and means nothing. you can't remove one variable from the social world and model what happens like a science experiment.

the notion that KG is the biggest celtic since bird is your opinion. i don't think you can make that statement until KG's time with the Cs has concluded.

who cares about the media? we all do. an internet forum is a type of media, buddy. i see a lot of tropes and stereotypes with wide currency in the national media uncritically reproduced here. KG's criticism absolving intensity and superstar status is only one example. on balance, i also see a lot of critical discussion and thinking, that's when this board shines. this season, though, it seems success has bred groupthink and if you don't agree and stay positive you aren't a fan.[/b]

[Relative Autonomy]

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lol yes we CAN disagree, i think we pretty much showed that in this thread. you're entitled to your oppinion, but we are not obligated to agree with it or you.

it's one thing to disagree. it's another to call some one reactionary self-loathing and a fair weather fan for having a contrary opinion. that's an insult not any kind of reasoned statement.

[tombattor]

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it's one thing to disagree. it's another to call some one reactionary self-loathing and a fair weather fan for having a contrary opinion. that's an insult not any kind of reasoned statement.

Don't be so sensitive. We've all been called names and been disagreed with. It's not a big deal. But if you're really fed up and want to leave, then au revoir!

[tlee324]

Statistics show he's one of the best defensive players in the NBA, the win/loss record and the energy of Boston has changed dramatically PRIMARILY because of his presence in Boston--Pierce made that sentiment himself-- and he has one of the best all around games and versatility the league has ever seen from someone of his size.

Those are facts. It doesn't take away from any other player like a Duncan or Pierce, it's just that there are absolute good and great reasons to be a fan of Kevin Garnett just as much as there are reasons to be a fan of any great player in the league.

If you don't like the fact that people love his game, love his personality, and want to credit him for the positive things going on in Boston, just deal with it. Move on. It's not going anywhere.

[MyInsatiableOne]

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Don't be so sensitive. We've all been called names and been disagreed with. It's not a big deal. But if you're really fed up and want to leave, then au revoir!

Tata! J/K

[drza]

I've been involved in variations of this argument so many times through the years that I can pretty much make all of the arguments on both sides by myself. Instead, I'll take it a different direction:

I don't even agree that KG could be pigeon-holed the way that the original article suggests, but even if I played along with that assertion...as someone else pointed out above, how could a combination of Pippen, Rodman, and Cooper NOT be a franchise player? Three of the best defensive players of all-time, one of which that is one of the most versatile players in history, another of which that is one of the best rebounders in history...take the best qualities of all 3 of them, mix it into a 7-foot package that also has strong leadership qualities, and the implication is that you can't build a championship franchise around a foundation like that? Really?

To me, that speaks to a general attitude that I just don't understand. The idea is that it doesn't matter who the best PLAYER is, that the franchise guy is automatically the best SCORER on the team. By that line of reason, Russell also wasn't a franchise guy. But it's become an accepted dogma for some. I don't get it...

[pballa]

I really think this is good, sober analysis.

I really think this is a bad, drunk analysis.

[Tricky Ricky]

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your statement is an irrelevant counter-factual. it makes your argument appear strong but, in fact, it is untestable and means nothing. you can't remove one variable from the social world and model what happens like a science experiment.

the notion that KG is the biggest celtic since bird is your opinion. i don't think you can make that statement until KG's time with the Cs has concluded.

who cares about the media? we all do. an internet forum is a type of media, buddy. i see a lot of tropes and stereotypes with wide currency in the national media uncritically reproduced here. KG's criticism absolving intensity and superstar status is only one example. on balance, i also see a lot of critical discussion and thinking, that's when this board shines. this season, though, it seems success has bred groupthink and if you don't agree and stay positive you aren't a fan.[/b]

Are u Gary Tanguay? HOnestly man like the other posters said dont take things soo seriously, were all entitled to our opinion and I dont think anyone shares the same as u

[JCizzle]

For someone who is merely a "sidekick", KG sure has carried this team throughout the entire playoffs. He's been the only one to show up mentally and produce in every game. He is an amazing athlete.

[Rocky5000]

On the offensive side of the ball, you probably have a bit of a point, but on defense KG is just phenomenal the amount that the average of his opponents drops is staggering. His per is a +15.5 at his position!
TD's is a +11.1 at C, (but a -1.7 at PF. I still don't understand why people refuse to call him a center)

I also don't think LeBron James or even Tim Duncan could have gotten KG's team to the west playoffs last year, or the year before I mean, look at what Ricky Davis and Mark Blount did to Dwayne Wade and Shaq's team!

As for his pay, in 05-06 82games did a study on fair pay for players.
KG's production was worth $20.95 Million, but he was being paid, 18 Million, so at 18 Million he was a bargain. Tim Duncan, was worth 16.56 and was being paid, 15.8 M.
http://www.82games.com/0506/fairsalary0506.htm

I think if Kevin McHale hadn't lost the TWolves draftpicks, while the Spurs were grabbing guys like Tony Parker and Manu, the Duncan/KG discussion would be a little bit different today.

[TheMartian]

Statistics show he's one of the best defensive players in the NBA, the win/loss record and the energy of Boston has changed dramatically PRIMARILY because of his presence in Boston--Pierce made that sentiment himself-- and he has one of the best all around games and versatility the league has ever seen from someone of his size.

Those are facts. It doesn't take away from any other player like a Duncan or Pierce, it's just that there are absolute good and great reasons to be a fan of Kevin Garnett just as much as there are reasons to be a fan of any great player in the league.

If you don't like the fact that people love his game, love his personality, and want to credit him for the positive things going on in Boston, just deal with it. Move on. It's not going anywhere.

Amen.