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Whats wrong with Pierce???

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Post#21 » by tombattor » Tue May 13, 2008 7:32 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Agreed, as soon as Pavlovic was on Paul, he started to warm up.

I just think LeBron's size and speed make his D look better than it is because he can compensate for it a bit.

Of course his speed and size help him on D, but by that logic, you can say the same about any player. For example, the fact that KG's 6'11" and is ultra quick for someone that tall allows him to be a great defender. If he were 6'1" with same quickness, I doubt he can be as effective.
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Post#22 » by airjaw » Tue May 13, 2008 7:33 pm

Pierce isn't as quick as he used to be.

His shooting is a bit off as he doesn't get shots consistently any more, due to the nature of the Celtics offense. He can go for half a quarter without taking a shot. Pierce is a scorer; he needs the ball throughout the course of the game for him to get hot and get in a rhythm.

Lebron is a nightmare matchup for Pierce. Lebron is faster, stronger, and taller. When someone has advantages over you in all those categories, its practically impossible to score. You need an advantage in at least one category. If you are faster, you can drive on your defender. Stronger, you post up or muscle your way to the basket. Taller, you shoot over him. Pierce has none of these advantages.

Finally, the Celtics offense is dysfunctional. They need to do some serious work in the offseason to make the Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Rondo combo work. It seems like no one really knows what their role is. Pierce is a big-time scorer. He used to be Mr. 4th quarter. Now his role is to be unselfish and.. play defense? Garnett has never had the offensive skill to completely take over a game, so its not his fault. We knew that before we traded for him.

We need more ball movement and better plays. we need more slashers. We have no one besides Rondo who can get to the basket. How many layups has this team had? Pierce, Allen, and Garnett hardly ever get layups anymore it seems. Only pierce can get layups and he hasn't been able to all series because of Lebron.

in the offseason we should seriously look into getting a slasher. Trade Ray Allen for one perhaps.[/list]
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Post#23 » by tombattor » Tue May 13, 2008 7:36 pm

airjaw wrote:Lebron is a nightmare matchup for Pierce. Lebron is faster, stronger, and taller. When someone has advantages over you in all those categories, its practically impossible to score. You need an advantage in at least one category. If you are faster, you can drive on your defender. Stronger, you post up or muscle your way to the basket. Taller, you shoot over him. Pierce has none of these advantages.

emocrate, you got that?
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Post#24 » by MyInsatiableOne » Tue May 13, 2008 7:53 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Of course his speed and size help him on D, but by that logic, you can say the same about any player. For example, the fact that KG's 6'11" and is ultra quick for someone that tall allows him to be a great defender. If he were 6'1" with same quickness, I doubt he can be as effective.


True, but defense is just as much mental and has to do with focus. Russell was smaller than a lot of centers in his day yet he dominated as much from his length and leaping ability as his intelligence. This is where KG is a great defender and where LeBron has room to improve...
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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Post#25 » by ermocrate » Tue May 13, 2008 7:53 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


First of all, using "never" and "nowhere" in a same sentence makes it a double negative, which means you are in essence saying that he will be near MJ/Kobe. The rest of your post are just as poorly constructed, but I'll leave it up to your teachers to teach you those.

Second of all, of course Lebron can't cover guys that are much smaller and quicker. As good as KG is on D, would you put him on Chris Paul because he's their best player? That's a pretty idiotic thing to say. However, for his size and strength, Lebron is ultra quick, so he's able to cover a wide range of players. Furthermore, with his combination of size, strength and quickness, he can cover and even shut down most players around his size, as he's doing with Pierce and he has done during the regular season against Kobe when he was on him.

Finally, where did you get the idea that he's not quick? There is no player his size that's quicker. That means that there are a lot of players who are smaller, who aren't as quick as Lebron. In any one-on-one situation, the offensive player has the advantage because that's how good these NBA players are, but if you can do a good enough job bothering the offensive player, with help D, you can limit his effectiveness by playing him to certain shots.
Sorry, I'm too old to learn english well... Maybe you can speak a good Italian...

I agree that there's no player of his size that's quicker, but has to guard player often smaller than him... I don't know that you noticed that when you defend you've to go backwards while your opponent goes frontward, there's no way to be quicker backward than frontward... :lol: Surely his height helps because is very difficult to shoot in his face but if he gets near you can beat him with your first step, a fast first step is the n
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Post#26 » by ermocrate » Tue May 13, 2008 8:06 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


emocrate, you got that?
Yes, yes, maybe you can tell it to Glenn Robinson when he used to play PF, maybe you can tell it to Charles Barkley when he used to score(and rebound) against faster, taller and stronger opponents, Maybe you can tell it to Paul Gasol when he abuse Bosh or even KG on offense or maybe you can tell il to Wally... :lol:

PS: Just try to tell it NOW to Larry Joe Bird and he will walk trough that door and put 45 points in LBJ face...
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Post#27 » by The Corey's » Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

in one word to describe it i think i would use "hesitation"

just look at him on the FT line, he takes like 20 seconds to throw up a brick, i mean he doesnt look like he wants to be taking that shot.

id also say the celtics are making one too many passes, but that's not true, it's more like 2 or 3 too many passes sometimes.

the rythem of the offense is unlike any i've ever seen before, and not in a way i'd like to admit.
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Post#28 » by MyInsatiableOne » Tue May 13, 2008 8:10 pm

^^It also looks like Pierce has completely changed his stance/mechanics for his free throw shooting...he stiff arms them up there now....not good.
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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Post#29 » by tombattor » Tue May 13, 2008 8:13 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
True, but defense is just as much mental and has to do with focus. Russell was smaller than a lot of centers in his day yet he dominated as much from his length and leaping ability as his intelligence. This is where KG is a great defender and where LeBron has room to improve...

I agree, but I was just saying that Lebron has all the tools to be a great defender. It's just a matter of whether he's got the mental part focused enough to be a good one in a given game.
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Post#30 » by tombattor » Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 pm

ermocrate wrote:PS: I've still not seen an NBA defender that can't be beaten 1vs1, that's because NBA players are very fast and offense overwhelmes defense by far. When you stop a guy is because you got a good TEAM defense.

You are absolutely right. No defender can't be beaten 1 vs 1. It's as you said, there are too many options for a defender to defend an offensive player 1 vs 1 for a whole game, but with guys like Lebron, he has the physical tools to force PP into playing the game certain way because there is no sure way for Paul to beat him.
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Post#31 » by GreenGrizz » Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 pm

He needs Walker back. That is simple and plain.
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Post#32 » by MyInsatiableOne » Tue May 13, 2008 8:26 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I agree, but I was just saying that Lebron has all the tools to be a great defender. It's just a matter of whether he's got the mental part focused enough to be a good one in a given game.


Agreed, he has all the tools. Once he decides to put it all together and work on it, he will be scary. And once he figures out how to be a good jump shooter and free throw shooter...
It's still 17 to 11!!!!
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Post#33 » by ermocrate » Tue May 13, 2008 8:42 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


You are absolutely right. No defender can't be beaten 1 vs 1. It's as you said, there are too many options for a defender to defend an offensive player 1 vs 1 for a whole game, but with guys like Lebron, he has the physical tools to force PP into playing the game certain way because there is no sure way for Paul to beat him.
What I was saying basicly is that PP can shoot, he can dribble, he can drive to the basket, can pass and is strong enough to take the occasional contact with LBJ without being too shaked(he's only 15 lbs lighter), if he has been stopped until now is because he's not playing up to his level, props to LeBron defense but with PP playing well there's no way to stop him. What I always criticized PP for is him being a ballhog and not a frenchise player, I've never questioned his ability to score with infinite variety, what is sad right now is that he seems to have lost his qualities... He was 40% from the field in ATL and they haven't LBJ playing for them...
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Post#34 » by airjaw » Tue May 13, 2008 8:48 pm

I agree, I'm not sure what is wrong with Pierce. Maybe he's just older?

There was time when pierce was considered by many to be top 5 in the league.
Now, he's top 15..
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Post#35 » by ermocrate » Tue May 13, 2008 8:54 pm

airjaw wrote:I agree, I'm not sure what is wrong with Pierce. Maybe he's just older?

There was time when pierce was considered by many to be top 5 in the league.
Now, he's top 15..

The thing that he look like the older one of the big 3 is scary....
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Post#36 » by tombattor » Tue May 13, 2008 9:16 pm

ermocrate wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
What I was saying basicly is that PP can shoot, he can dribble, he can drive to the basket, can pass and is strong enough to take the occasional contact with LBJ without being too shaked(he's only 15 lbs lighter), if he has been stopped until now is because he's not playing up to his level, props to LeBron defense but with PP playing well there's no way to stop him. What I always criticized PP for is him being a ballhog and not a frenchise player, I've never questioned his ability to score with infinite variety, what is sad right now is that he seems to have lost his qualities... He was 40% from the field in ATL and they haven't LBJ playing for them...

I hear you. I think PP's definitely struggling, but it's been exaggerated by the fact that he's got a superior physical presence on him.

Btw, what's your avatar of? I've been trying to figure it out. I'd like to say it's Kaka against Inter, but the field looks like a playground.
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Post#37 » by ermocrate » Tue May 13, 2008 9:43 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I hear you. I think PP's definitely struggling, but it's been exaggerated by the fact that he's got a superior physical presence on him.

Btw, what's your avatar of? I've been trying to figure it out. I'd like to say it's Kaka against Inter, but the field looks like a playground.

We now agree on all the line... :D

PS: It's me making a "sombrero" ion the defender in a soccer game 5vs5.
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Post#38 » by tombattor » Tue May 13, 2008 9:52 pm

ermocrate wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
We now agree on all the line... :D

PS: It's me making a "sombrero" ion the defender in a soccer game 5vs5.

Nice move! I thought you were kaka! haha
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Post#39 » by ermocrate » Tue May 13, 2008 11:31 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Nice move! I thought you were kaka! haha
:oops: Tanks! :D
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