Is It Worth It?

[DDansby123]

I can see the argument for blowing up and going with youth but I just don't see a blueprint for that that makes me think it will be succesful unless one of the young guys you get turns out to be one of the top three in the league at his position (ex. Paul, Lebron, Dwight).

But there's not a great blueprint for building around vets at this point, either, is there?

[DDansby123]

Portland will be top notch the next decade, NOH the same. To accumulate more talent than them in three years is not realistic and has nothing to do with "done right", its way way against the odds.

Really? I thought Oden was going to be ROY this season too...a lock they said. And he winds up hurt and out for the season. You can't just concede that our rebuild will be second to Team X, can you?

The question if we should rebuild now and try to compete with the powerhouses of tomorrow or to keep that team that will play great to good for the next two to three years while prob not winning anything is easy to answer for me. I rather watch great basketball while rooting for a team than getting dominated for six years and sleep on the couch during playoffs.

You might need to watch a team other than the Mavs then, because I haven't seen anything "great" from them in the playoffs in two years.

Seriously this discussion is more about enjoying Dallasball for three more years or accelerating the rebuild for one **** year. One thing is for sure either way, the next rebuild will follow anyway.

It's a little overly simplistic to essentially say that "a rebuild is a rebuild" don't you think? I mean, one year could make a huge difference.

[Captain_Obvious]

Really? I thought Oden was going to be ROY this season too...a lock they said. And he winds up hurt and out for the season. You can't just concede that our rebuild will be second to Team X, can you?

I still laugh at the thought we can add enough young talent to get more talent than Portland in only three years in a rebulding process. You realize Portland just got another lottery pick incoming because of Odens injury right? If it would be that easy, every team would be either incredibly talented or just rebuilding 3 - 4 years. Yet there are teams like the Bucks, Hawks etc.
You are overly optimistic on rebuilding and you cant persuade me into this.

You might need to watch a team other than the Mavs then, because I haven't seen anything "great" from them in the playoffs in two years.

Yeah this team underperformed during Playoffs, i get it.

It's a little overly simplistic to essentially say that "a rebuild is a rebuild" don't you think? I mean, one year could make a huge difference.

Sure could one year make a difference, everything can make a difference because a rebuild is 100% dependent on luck.

And because you didnt touch the "one year saved on rebuild or two/three more years of this team" thought, dont you think its disrespectful to trade the best player this franchise ever had and cut his career here short just to save one year.

[DDansby123]

And because you didnt touch the "one year saved on rebuild or two/three more years of this team" thought, dont you think its disrespectful to trade the best player this franchise ever had and cut his career here short just to save one year.

I'm not going to go round and round on this, since you've already said I can't change your mind, you disagree with me, etc. But suffice it to say, I think it's more than just one year, and, IMO, now is our best chance to rebuild.

So, to directly answer your quote, yes, I'd rather have one year saved on a rebuild (even though that's not the best way to view it) than two to three more years of this team.

As for what's disrespectful, I don't think that enters into the conversation at all. It's business. But since you brought it up, I think Dirk will have a better shot at a championship somewhere other than Dallas, so I don't think trading him is disrespectful at all.

[Teffer10]

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Sure could one year make a difference, everything can make a difference because a rebuild is 100% dependent on luck.

And because you didnt touch the "one year saved on rebuild or two/three more years of this team" thought, dont you think its disrespectful to trade the best player this franchise ever had and cut his career here short just to save one year.

A rebuilding process now has a better chance of getting us a championship sooner than a team of Dirk, Howard, and Kidd. Keeping this team and going after a championship in the next 3 years is only going to prolong the agony of waiting for a championship. Might as well start now while Dirk and Howard have value.
Two years from now, Dirk and Howard will be virtually worthless as trade value in a rebuilding effort.

I think you are being over optimistic about winning a championship with Dirk more so than DDans is about rebuilding.
Keep Dirk until the end of his career and we will be waiting at least another 10 years of having any chance at a championship.

[Captain_Obvious]

If we find a good fit for the 2 position while staying strong on SF, i'm moving from overly optimistic to overly ecstatic.

[DDansby123]

Two years from now, Dirk and Howard will be virtually worthless as trade value in a rebuilding effort.

This is the key for me. Any team can start rebuilding from scratch, and if they already have good draft picks and cap space, rebuilding in one year is pretty much the same as rebuilding in any other.

But we're different. We have a superstar who's value will only drop from here (IMO). I don't want to risk Dirk having another bad matchup in the playoffs next year and blowing his trade value altogether...or getting hurt and catching the "old" label. Waiting a year or until Dirk's contract is up only risks his trade value more, and let's not discount the fact that, facing a rebuild, Dirk might walk for nothing in free agency.

As for being optimistic about a rebuild, I am. Yes, I've looked at the FA lists for the three years, and there's not anyone who just makes me giddy. Of course, guys like Wade, LeBron, Paul, and Williams will be hitting the (partially) open market two years from now. It'd be nice to have some money to chase them, even though I hold no high hopes for acquiring them.

[dirtyfilthynasty]

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But there's not a great blueprint for building around vets at this point, either, is there?

No but you can take lessons from the Spurs, Lakers, and Pistons

[DDansby123]

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No but you can take lessons from the Spurs, Lakers, and Pistons

Spurs: build around the best PF of all-time.
Lakers: build around one of the best SGs of all-time (and make a ridiculously one-sided trade to get even better)
Pistons: be the only team in decades to win a championship without a superstar

What lessons can we get from these teams that will help us win now?

Edit: Did you mean re-building around vets versus young players, or using vets to win now? I interpreted you to mean the latter, perhaps incorrectly.

[Deus]

Cuban won't trade Dirk. Not this summer, and probably not next either.

But I do see a MAJOR trade happening this off-season. Donnie Nelson isn't a dummy. He knows how bad the Mavs are playing.

I see Donnie and Cuban trading Terry and Josh for sure.

[Cyberstorm3000]

I suggest this. This makes us competitive and more athletic.
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=789128

[Pointguard01]

^That sucks for us.

But we're different. We have a superstar who's value will only drop from here (IMO). I don't want to risk Dirk having another bad matchup in the playoffs next year and blowing his trade value altogether...or getting hurt and catching the "old" label. Waiting a year or until Dirk's contract is up only risks his trade value more, and let's not discount the fact that, facing a rebuild, Dirk might walk for nothing in free agency.

Exactly. Unlike most teams that rebuild, we are in that position where we could have a great start. Now of course Dalals FO needs to evaluate whether they think they can get this team to a championship level, but I dont think they can. But assuming they see that, they have plenty of good role players as well as difference makes that other teams would want.

Look at Sacramento. They didnt rebuild when they should have, so they signed guys like Mikki Moore to 4 year deals, waited to trade Bibby until he was considered "old" and was injuried and only got expiring contracts for him. Brad Miller had great trade value 2 yrs ago, now they could get expiring and thats about it. They still have 2 bad contracts in Kenny Thomas and Shareff Abdul-Rahim, and they arent giving their youngsters like Spencer Hawes enough playing time to develop. They are a mess. I wont even get into Ron Artest.

And there ae plenty of teams that wait too long and are stuck being a medorice team with average talent that most teams arent going to want. But Dallas is different, in the words of DDan.

You can easily package Dirk (with either Terry/Stack) and get an excellent package of picks, youngsters and expirings.

You can easily package Howard (with either Terry/Stackhouse) and get expirings and a young player or two OR pick with expirings.

Even so, Dampier's 2 year contract could easily be traded for a 1 yr expiring to a teamt that wants to compete. Im 90% sure Toronto would love to trade Nesterovic for Dampier and get sme defense and rebounding next to Chrish Bosh.

There you get rid of all your long term contracts and are able to sign 1 or 2 MAX free agent next offeason in 2009. You also would have 3-5 young talents to build apon, not to mention that 2009 draft pick you get from being so bad. Dallas could be a playoff team by 2010 easily.

People mention Portland but what do they have. They have an All-Star in Brandon Roy, and then what? Aldridge is young, but he's not even close to a top 10 PF. Oden's shown nothing. Guys like Webster and Outlaw are a dime a dozen role playing swingmen. Jack & Blake are average PGs. Yes they have alot of talent, but Roy is the one top player they have, with Oden having the potential.

With Dallas having that cap space, that opens us s many more doors to not only sign a FA (which I am not a huge fan of relying on this), but also teams that want to rebuild giving away players for cap space and a pick or young talnt. Let's say Dallas had two really good young players, 1 top pick in 2008 and 1 in 2009. We had 30 million cap space this offseason with a bunch of young good role players. We could get Michael Redd from Milwaukee pretty easily from MIL for our cap space + a future pick. Denver is givig away Marcus Camby for cheap probably too.Chicago would probably give Kirk Hinrich too.

The point is you always have teams not needing good players, and they would take cap space for them, so when you strike out in FA, its not the end.

Lets say you go after Redd and Hinrich, because both are similarly young, add those two guys to your top picks from the past two years and you have a potential team that could be really good, really soon, assuming your top picks work out.

And then you always have the otpion of developing your youngsters like Boston did and then selling them off to be good immediately if things dont work out. I guess think that Dallas has gone as far as they can with Dirk and this team and trying to retool again after 6 yrs of failure will bring he same failure. Rebuild and start from scratch. Fans will stillbe supportive within the first 2 yrs, of course things can mess up, but we could easily be back in the playoffs soon. But there is just as much chance the rebuilding fails as there is that Dallas loses again in the 1st round next year, right?