BARON: Better or Worse?

[Chris Cohan]

[quote="old rem"][/quote]

I think I've gone further than most to explain the practicality of a trade of Baron Davis and/or Al Harrington this summer and I've offered extensive explanations of how it would NOT hurt the team to the tune of top-5 lottery picks to do so.

If my tone seems sarcastic, it's probably because the sky-is-falling Baron Bandwagon is so ridiculous and deserving of my ridicule.

Ha!

[St.Nick]

Yeah Mylie. I want my owner to spend a ton of money too. I want to sign LeBron when he becomes a FA. I wanted Ike Diogu to play like Elton Brand. I want my job to pay me twice as much for half as many hours.

Then reality kicks in. You either accept the situation, change the situation, or remove yourself from the situation. Merely complaining about it is fruitless.

PS-- Regarding Ratliff...he was a big expiring contract, he didnt get Minnesota a star in return. Foyle would have likely played out the same way but then cost the ownership millions of wasted dollars.

And Foyle might be better than Mbenga, but in the way that Primo Brezec is a better player than Jake Voskuhl. Its irrelevant, aside from the fact that Foyle was getting paid 40X what Mbenga made. Do you understand the point in terms of relativity?

[DLeagueAllStars]

yeah I dont think Baron or SJAX will stop chucking.. but then again.. who on this team would have shot the ball..

Monta can only shoot so much.. yeah I would have liked to seen the ball goto Andris more.. but overall, who was gonna shoot the ball on this team


Bukie - hope not, Al - he did enough, Pietrus - wonderful, Barnes - good lord...

So with the style that Nelson plays, yeah your gonna see your main scorers hoist alot of shots.. but if this team had say 3 other players who could score when they shot rather than miss... I would assume that Baron and SJAX wouldnt have shot as much as they did and if anything would have had even more assists...

when you dont have enough consistant scorers on the floor and then your main scorers stop trusting those guys to score, its gonna look like they are chucking all the time...

if you surrounded Baron and SJAX with say Ellis, Biedrins, uhm a Bass or Haslem, Mike Miller on the outside along with another consistant scorer, you wouldnt be seeing SJAX and Baron shoot as much as they did, as they be passing more often to other guys who can make a jump shot..

also, since we had no bench, our main guys played way to many minutes, by the end of the season they also had no legs underneath them.. even you know that if you dont have your legs, your shot is gonna be a lil off.. Well guess that also coincides with the fact that as the season went on, Baron and Sjax's FG% went down..

So a big correlation would be, if the Warriors had a much better bench and rotation player, SJAX and Baron would be playing less minutes.. therefore they would be taking less shots, passing more and having stronger legs into the season so that when they do take a shot, its a good shot

THose two are basketball players, but even players can turn into chuckers on bad teams, or teams without enough depth

[Mylie10]

Yeah Mylie. I want my owner to spend a ton of money too. I want to sign LeBron when he becomes a FA. I wanted Ike Diogu to play like Elton Brand. I want my job to pay me twice as much for half as many hours.

Then reality kicks in. You either accept the situation, change the situation, or remove yourself from the situation. Merely complaining about it is fruitless.

PS-- Regarding Ratliff...he was a big expiring contract, he didnt get Minnesota a star in return. Foyle would have likely played out the same way but then cost the ownership millions of wasted dollars.

And Foyle might be better than Mbenga, but in the way that Primo Brezec is a better player than Jake Voskuhl. Its irrelevant, aside from the fact that Foyle was getting paid 40X what Mbenga made. Do you understand the point in terms of relativity?

The point I was making with Ratliff types of contracts is that they net you something. I'm not in love with Foyle, but for the meager savings we had last year, then we should have just kept him around and used his EC this year to REALLY facilitate something valuable. And I don't think Foyle would have made us tangibly better but better than we were if used.

As for complaining? you are probably the most bitter poster regarding others on this board. You complain constantly about other people here and try to mother us into certain posting behavior. Asking someone to not complain about something is silly.

I do like some of your posts though as I do all of the guys around here. Even Abyss cracks me up. Sid is probably my favorite poster here, but why should I tell him to not say some of the things he does. He has humor and humor makes the world go round. Your not funny....ever!

We don't need a mommy here.

[FNQ]

THose two are basketball players, but even players can turn into chuckers on bad teams, or teams without enough depth

You cannot lump Jax with Baron at all.

Baron's successes come when he is not the leader of the team and are basically a honeymoon period. Jax's best successes come as an emotional leader and as a 3rd or 4th offensive option (and that he's aware and accepting of it).

BTW, Baron's FG% went up as the season progressed. Maybe a testament to how rosy people's glasses were in the beginning. But the significant #s for the 2nd half:

30% 3PT, 6.0 3PTA (34.5 / 6.5 in 1st half)
6.7 APG, 2.9 TOPG (8.1 / 2.
2.0 SPG (2.5 SPG)
3.9 FTA (5.9 FTA)

And that doesn't even take into consideration the massive dropoff in defense...

[DLeagueAllStars]

SJax can be accepting of the 3rd or 4th option, but on this team he isnt that option, he is number 2..., so he shot the ball like a number 2 option would

as for Baron and his regression... all the stats you put up are the ones where Baron would rely on not being as tired and worn down from the season.. when he was fresher, his defense was better, his steals were higher, he was driving more to hoop, getting more FTA, having the legs under his shot to shoot better from 3PT land... and when he his moving faster, healthier and quicker, obviously he was able to penetrate better and get more assists...

So if anything, you just proved my point...

Surround your best players with more quality players.. their shots attempts will go down, they will have fresher legs longer into the season, therefore not having the second half dropoff that Baron had

[St.Nick]

-= original quote snipped =-


As for complaining? you are probably the most bitter poster regarding others on this board. You complain constantly about other people here and try to mother us into certain posting behavior. Asking someone to not complain about something is silly.

I do like some of your posts though as I do all of the guys around here. Even Abyss cracks me up. Sid is probably my favorite poster here, but why should I tell him to not say some of the things he does. He has humor and humor makes the world go round. Your not funny....ever!

We don't need a mommy here.

You do need a teacher though. Most of your comments are something someone lacking in any understanding would say.

"Why doesnt Cohan pay more..? Boo hoo!"
Its been like 15 years, dude! Get a grip. If you still cant get used to the fact that a reckless spendder isnt our owner then go root for the Mavericks.

And I could care less if I come across as unhumorous to you. I am not here to entertain you and make you feel warm and special. I view this as an exchange in knowledge. Some people get a bit trampled on in the process because they arent as sharp as others are, but thats just the way it goes. If you cant take the heat, dont say dumb stuff.

[FNQ]

SJax can be accepting of the 3rd or 4th option, but on this team he isnt that option, he is number 2..., so he shot the ball like a number 2 option would

as for Baron and his regression... all the stats you put up are the ones where Baron would rely on not being as tired and worn down from the season.. when he was fresher, his defense was better, his steals were higher, he was driving more to hoop, getting more FTA, having the legs under his shot to shoot better from 3PT land... and when he his moving faster, healthier and quicker, obviously he was able to penetrate better and get more assists...

So if anything, you just proved my point...

Surround your best players with more quality players.. their shots attempts will go down, they will have fresher legs longer into the season, therefore not having the second half dropoff that Baron had

There's always an excuse for Baron... he wanted to play near the coast... he didn't respect Montgomery... now dead legs... I guess the reason W's fans aren't tired of defending him yet is because they've only done it twice... ask Hornets fans how good quitting Baron is to a team.

[Mylie10]

-= original quote snipped =-



You do need a teacher though. Most of your comments are something someone lacking in any understanding would say.

"Why doesnt Cohan pay more..? Boo hoo!"
Its been like 15 years, dude! Get a grip. If you still cant get used to the fact that a reckless spendder isnt our owner then go root for the Mavericks.

And I could care less if I come across as unhumorous to you. I am not here to entertain you and make you feel warm and special. I view this as an exchange in knowledge. Some people get a bit trampled on in the process because they arent as sharp as others are, but thats just the way it goes. If you cant take the heat, dont say dumb stuff.

I've never once said "Why doesn't Cohan pay more?" Not once.

I have said it pisses me off. And it will continue to piss me off.

You don't watch the games and yet you continually tell us what we should do. Your boring most of the time and the only reason I respond to you is because of how wrong you are most of the time.

Even so, sometimes you are very good when your not talking down, or mothering others. If you would stick to your points and not throw in the "your acting childish or dumb" comments, then you wouldn't recieve so much crap.

Do what you want though as will I. If you think i'm dumb then fine.

But lighten up dude and try to laugh more, it might make you more tolerable.

[DLeagueAllStars]

Nah he quit on the team cuz 1) he was a lil banged up and they sucked.. hell, have the league and even some other superstars in this league have done that...

actually, screw just the NBA, players have done that in all sports...

and I am not blind to Baron.. Do I think he is getting paid more than he should, yes.. DO i think he should get a 6 year extension, NO..

But I do say that you need to surround your best players with quality rotational players, or else your going to have a team with too many flaws...

and if we let Baron go, or trade him and pick up a number 6 pick in the draft.. what good does that do.. this is a poor draft for what we need on this club.. there isnt a BG SG or PG out there that we can attain to compliment Ellis and all the bigmen out there are projects or have to many question marks about them...

either way, with Baron and Nelson along with SJAX this club has seen more winning than it has in 15 years... and with winning comes a winning attitude, players who want to come and stay here.. We ship off our better players, not get full return on them and start to lose... Who cares if you have FA money in 09 or 2010.. no one is gonna want to play here.. will be just like the late 90's early 00's when we had to over pay mediocre players to come here...

Great, wonderful job.. your just about as bad as Dom80e when it comes to planning out a future or surrounding a team with talent..

[FNQ]

at the pessimism.... how were we winning any games down the stretch? Monta... not Baron, not Jax... he was running the show... when we handed him the keys against Boston? He thrived, we won. No Jax for that game by the way...

Baron's had ideal situations before.... he can MAKE people relevant when he wants to. But he doesn't always want to. He'd rather stand around and chuck. 10 whole years now and people still believe Baron will change...

You think FAs and the entire league is blind to how we've won games? We're still a joke... What good SG is going to sign here to play PF? Any SFs want to play C? A place where you could get benched for whoever's in the D-League?

We haven't attracted

[DLeagueAllStars]

Monta was good down the stretch since he is still 22 years old and has young legs.. 10 years in the league doesnt eventually take a toll on a players body...

and no, I dont think the league is blind to how we won, but if you listened to the Bulls players, they wanted Mike D' to be their new coach because of the style they play.. Barbosa and Amare, along with marion and Nash thrived in that system.. Players today are used to running.. its what they play in the summer in games.. the style they want to to play

Now do I think a SG wants to be a PF or a SF be C, no.. but if your 6-9 and cant guard a guy who weighs 15lbs more than you and is about 2" taller, your a puss... grow some balls and be a man.. as for Harrington, well know that he has no hops... Pietrus and Bukie at PF, well that was just sad...

This team needs more players to complement the players they already have... They need a SG and SF who can come off the bench and actually make shots when counted apon.. when they go with a Harrington at PF or C, they need a back up PF who can come in and body up next to a big body themself, but still be able to hit a 10-12ft jumper...

oh and with Ellis leading this team in the second half, dont say he was the floor general, cuz anytime he was on the floor without Baron, the offense pretty much suffered.. came to a halt, and when it didnt, he would make sloppy and lazy passes... Ellis also gotten eaten alive on the offensive end...

I am going to say that I like Ellis alot, but your infactuation for him makes it sound like he was the only good thing we had and that he is the next best thing since sliced bread... Ellis has many flaws and if anything, just as many as Baron and has regressed in areas where he now should have gotten better

[GSWhoopfan]

:rofl: at the pessimism.... how were we winning any games down the stretch? Monta... not Baron, not Jax... he was running the show... when we handed him the keys against Boston? He thrived, we won. No Jax for that game by the way...

funny that you bring that up...cause we didnt finish off the season strong.

hmmm...when we handed Monta the keys and he took over the show, we werent winning games.

So Monta gets all the credit for winning games, Baron gets the credit for losing the games...got it

[Chris Cohan]

This is the silliest status quo head in sand post you've made up in some time. Congratulations.

[GS Warriors 1]

The Warriors weren't winning games because besides Ellis and Biedrins, everyone else wasn't very good. I felt that those 2 guys were the best players down the stretch.

[GSWhoopfan]

The Warriors weren't winning games because besides Ellis and Biedrins, everyone else wasn't very good. I felt that those 2 guys were the best players down the stretch.

and there were times where Baron carried the team. Baron carried us to more wins than Monta and Biedrins.

Ellis in this board is better than Jordan.

Ellis = GOD

[GSWhoopfan]

if Monta led the Warriors to the playoffs...then yes he deserves all the praise in the world

we didnt make the playoffs...so now it Baron and Nellies fault only.

people are putting Monta in the LeBron category. as in Montas trade value should net us LeBron or Kobe.

Montas man blows by him, its the other defenders fault for not stepping up. Pick and Roll, its the other defenders fault. Monta misses a shot, Baron threw the ball at his ankles. Please man...enough of this sch!t.

i wasnt aware it was the Monta and 12 others party.

[FNQ]

Ok.. was waiting for just one more exaggeration due to having nothing left... its useless to even argue with someone who wants to extend Baron at whatever the cost

[Dark Star]

baron 6 years 60 mil...10 a year every year....has to accept a role

not likely