Josh Smith does not make All-Defensive Team selections

fo_o_fo_404 · Post #1 » by **fo_o_fo_404** » Tue May 13, 2008 7:38 am

Now, I can see the First Team....I can buy that.

KG
Kobe
Camby
Bowen
Duncan

But the Second Team is ridiculous!

Shane Battier
CP3
Dwight Howard
Tayshaun Prince
Raja Bell

Now, I can buy CP3 and Howard being on the second team, but I feel Smoove should have been at least a second team selection over Battier, Prince and Bell!
:nod:

NyKnicks1714 · Post #2 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:05 am

Chris Paul is the one who DOESN'T belong on the second team. Camby probably shouldn't be on the first team either. Blocks and steals do not equal defense, which is why Smith isn't on either team.

evildallas · Post #3 » by **evildallas** » Tue May 13, 2008 11:03 am

There's a difference between help defender and on-the-ball defender. The team is mainly comprised of all the ball defenders. Also reputation plays a big role in the voting. Camby and CP3 are on as stat guys with Paul getting the steals numbers by taking chances (like Iverson used to) not by being a lock down defender. Team defensive performance helps get votes as several Pistons were just off the list.

Josh Smith should have got a few more votes (he wasn't even close to making second team) as being a gaudy stat guy, but he isn't quite there on the ball D. Also the team defense doesn't help him get any votes (which come from the coaches) nor does overall record. It'll take some better team performance to get personal accolades like all-defensive team.

killbuckner · Post #4 » by **killbuckner** » Tue May 13, 2008 12:49 pm

Battier I have no problem with on the 2nd team- the rockets were ridiculously good on defense during that long winning streak and Battier was a big part of that. Bell and Paul make it as guards- its pretty tough to decide which guards to give it to so whatever. Basically its Prince vs Smith as the other forward. Prince is a good man defender and a good help defender. Smith is a great help defender and an OK man defender. These things tend to have some inertia- Prince has made the second team for 3 or 4 years in a row now I think.

conleyorbust · Post #5 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:58 pm

All-D selections are almost always bad, these are the best in a while.

Duncan should be the center of the first team with KG and Battier being the forwards.

Bowen had an off year as a defender, I didn't think he deserved a spot at all but these are based on rep more than anything.

Prince and Smith should have been the second team forwards with Sheed as the center.

Hard to leave Camby off because of all the rebounds and blocks but if you think Smith isn't a good enough man defender (he's well above average at his position) than you really can't have Camby (well below average at his position).

killbuckner · Post #6 » by **killbuckner** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:12 pm

COB- don't you think that this means the coaches probably don't agree with you that Camby is well below average for his position at man defense?

conleyorbust · Post #7 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:38 pm

killbuckner wrote:COB- don't you think that this means the coaches probably don't agree with you that Camby is well below average for his position at man defense?

Have you ever watched Marcus Camby?

I don't care what the coaches think, they voted Kidd onto the first team last season and he couldn't stay in front of a turtle. They kept voting Kobe onto the first teams even though he stopped playing on that side of the ball so he could score 35 a night. They voted Larry Hughes onto first team even though he isn't that good. Same with Wade and his second team. Same with Paul this season. Dwight Howard's coach called him out for not paying attention on D.

Look dude, I watch the game. If you have a point to make, make it. Do YOU think Camby is a good man defender?

killbuckner · Post #8 » by **killbuckner** » Tue May 13, 2008 3:06 pm

I think that Camby is an average man defender that is also a superior help defender and rebounder. He doesn't do great on the pick and roll because he wants to get back to the lane to block shots but he isn't a bad man defender.

conleyorbust · Post #9 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue May 13, 2008 3:34 pm

killbuckner wrote:I think that Camby is an average man defender that is also a superior help defender and rebounder. He doesn't do great on the pick and roll because he wants to get back to the lane to block shots but he isn't a bad man defender.

Thats where I disagree with you. Camby NEVER guards scorers, part of that is because they need his shotblocking but he is also a very weak guy for a professional athlete. Everything he does well is contingent on his athleticism and post D is contingent on strength. You already said why Camby isn't good against perimeter-based offensive players so I don't need to go into that.

You are allowed to have whatever conceptions you like. I can also see someone thinking that Camby's excellent defensive rebounding and shotblocking more than make up for his inability to guard the pick and roll or to stop someone from scoring on him in man defense. I just happen to think that Duncan is a faaaaaar superior defensive player and that this year Sheed was a much more effective player too.

As far as Smith v. Camby. Camby gets more blocks and defensive rebounds (by a fairly significant margin) but Smith is much better at defending away from the basket, he can stay with his man on the perimeter, and he has a lot of body strength on Camby which allows him to defend the post with some effectiveness - and Smith has his deficiencies in those areas. You saw it in the playoffs, Smith was asked to both D up the opposing team's best player AND protect the paint where Camby was only asked to do the latter after being completely emasculated on D by Pau Gasol in game 1.

Harry10 · Post #10 » by **Harry10** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:33 pm

Smith's defense was below expectations this year.

last year he was a dominate post man defender, but he was always get in foul trouble

this year, he didn't seem as aggressive and would let things slide buy, and it did help his foul situation, but he wasn't shutting guys down like he did last year.

killbuckner · Post #11 » by **killbuckner** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:46 pm

Duncan and Sheed are in the mix for forwards. WHen it comes to centers I just don't see who deserves it more than Camby does.

JoshB914 · Post #12 » by **JoshB914** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:49 pm

Where's Eddy Curry?

betta1 · Post #13 » by **betta1** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:52 pm

It's kinda strange that Smoove get's 6th place in DPOY voting yet doesn't make any of the top 10 slots designated for the All-D 1st and 2nd teams.

conleyorbust · Post #14 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:53 pm

killbuckner wrote:Duncan and Sheed are in the mix for forwards. WHen it comes to centers I just don't see who deserves it more than Camby does.

I guess thats another place where we differ. Duncan is as much a center as any player in the league in my book. He plays in the post on both ends and is the biggest guy on his team - same with Sheed except Sheed isn't really a post player on offense.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #15 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Tue May 13, 2008 7:24 pm

betta1 wrote:It's kinda strange that Smoove get's 6th place in DPOY voting yet doesn't make any of the top 10 slots designated for the All-D 1st and 2nd teams.

That's because the forward position has so many good perimeter defenders (Prince/Battier/Artest)and interior defenders(KG/Duncan/etc). I don't really care about awards but Artest should be on there despite missing alot of games IMO. I think Artest and Battier are a step above every other perimeter defender. Bowen lost a step this year.

I also think they just pick at random for the guards every year. I can see Kobe since he stepped his defense up this year but Chris Paul? As COB said...it seems like they just pick at random when it comes to guards. It takes too much work to recognize a good lead defender(like Billups or Devin Harris)so they just gave it to Paul because of his steals like they did with Wade and Hughes. Kidd has also been an awful defender since he had knee surgery and people act like he just became a bad defender this year after Paul worked him. Anthony Johnson(who went over 2 months in a row w/o scoring in double digits this year)dropped 40 on Kidd in a playoff game a few years ago.

freshie2 · Post #16 » by **freshie2** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:28 am

Smith needs to be more consistent on the ball...great talent, but that consistency is the key. Tough call to put him in over Prince or Battier...those guys bring it every night, and are very high end defenders. Smith could be great, but he has to be more than just a highlight reel.

High 5 · Post #17 » by **High 5** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:35 pm

He deserves it more than Prince.

tontoz · Post #18 » by **tontoz** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:42 pm

betta1 wrote:It's kinda strange that Smoove get's 6th place in DPOY voting yet doesn't make any of the top 10 slots designated for the All-D 1st and 2nd teams.

The media votes for DPOY and the coaches pick the All-D teams.

Post #19 » by **wizardg** » Fri May 16, 2008 2:35 am

the defensive team selections are a joke.

Been that way for a long time.

I remember one year Jordan led the league in steals. He also had like 1.4 blks which was better than 15 starting centers and didn't make any all defense team.

Doug collins complained and the next year Jordan was named DPOY