Official NBA Draft Lottery Discussion Thread II

[DBurks2818]

DW played fine off the ball in '06. Also, it's not like the team has to play he and Rose together for 48 minutes. You move one to bench and bring out shooters that can also handle the ball (this is where guys like Quinn can come in) and move DW/Rose to SG then you're still effective inside and out.

[heat4life]

Listen, we can go either way with Rose or Beasley and we still come out winners. I just hear lots of people trying to overstate Beasley's readiness to play PF in this league and under appreciate Rose's ability to dominate his position.

[heat4life]

Again, people comparing Beasley with Boozer. There is nothing there. Boozer is a powerful PF, even at 6'8 he overpowers Beasley easily.

Also, with Rose at PG, I don't think you'll see his effect on the team as much on the stat sheet as you will with the other players around him improved stats all due to his playmaking ability and court vision. Think Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa etc. Now picture Dorrell Wright, Daquan Cook, Marcus Banks and even Udonis Haslem raising their stats to go along with Rose's 14ppg/5r/8a, Wade's usual 26-28ppg/5r/5a and Marion's 18ppg/12r/3a.

Don't et me wrong, we need bulk and a low post presence but I think Elton Brand in 2009 is a HUGE posibility with a PG like Rose who everyone would want to play with.

[unowen85]

Have there been articles stating that Beasley hasn't stooped growing yet? Or is it just hoping that his pituitary gland is Dorell-esque?

[heat4life]

lol
I guess people assume since he is 19 that he is not done growing yet. Weren't Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James 19 when they entered the league as well? Last I checked they were listed at 6'8 just like they came into the league, not at 6'10 where the "Dorell-esque" pituitary gland would put them.

[SmushedPennies]

my take:

while rose is not a great shooter, hes not that bad..the point is that it is not high stregnth and we need that IMO as we lack shooting

BEASLEY IS 6'10, not 6'9...he is 6'9 and 3 quarters which is good for 6'10...not to mention a huge wingspan...he also has good bulk and can get even stronger...to me hes like a stronger, more athletic dirk with less shooting

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/200 ... -Analysis/

If Beasley is 6-10 with shoes, Rose is 6-5. I have not seen any official measurements since these, and Beasley is listed at 6-9 WITH shoes.

and lol at rose being nba ready...pg is the hardest position to learn and...rose is good but hes too unselfish and we need more scoring badly IMO as marion is not a scorer..we need to take the scoring load off wade

You do realize that an unselfish PG will get you SCORING OPPORTUNITIES, leading to MORE POINTS. On top of that, Rose took over games several times with his scoring ability.

On day one would Rose be a better passer than Wade? Is taking the ball out of Wade's hands, robing him of his ability to create shots for others a good thing?

Yes. When Wade is forced to initiate the offense (see last two seasons), he turns the ball over at an extremely high rate. I've been watching tapes of the 06 season, and on most possessions Wade works off the ball to receive it closer to the baseline, putting him in better position to score (where he can still also make plays for others I might add). This wasn't always the case. Wade's first two seasons he played PG, until Damon came into the starting line-up moving Wade to SG. This immediately increased the backcourt's production (yes, partially because of Damon's adept shooting ability). It still was not enough, however, due to Damon's lack of true PG skills. The next year JWill was acquired, and the two eventually built a chemistry that Wade had never experienced with a backcourt partner.

Some of you act like Wade MUST have the ball in his hands ALL OF THE TIME. What you neglect to realize is every team needs a secondary creator in its line-up, including one with Dwyane Wade (who would be the best secondary ball-handler in the league). If we're going to look at teams still alive right now: Rondo has Pierce, Billups has Prince, Fischer has Kobe/Odom, Parker has Ginobili, and to a lesser extent Nelson has Turkoglu, and D. West has LeBron. CP3 is an obvious exception, starting games with two shooters on the wings, but he is extremely efficient and plays a good chunk of games with Pargo next to him. I haven't been able to watch the Jazz play too much this season, but I'd imagine its a similar thing with Deron. If Rose is here, when one gets trapped/doubled they can kick it to the other who would have an advantage on the defense.

Wade WANTS Rose. He WANTS someone to take the initiation pressure off of his game, and that makes him way more dangerous. Plus, having an initiator like Rose makes everyone better.

[miamiballer]

listen ill be happy to land either really but if we get the 1st pick, i cant see why we wouldnt take beasley

basically, he gives us dominant post scoring and rebounding (TWO major needs), hes 19 also and has A LOT of potential just like rose does...beasley is way more polished as a scorer and thus will likely have a kevin durant type influence...rose is awesome for a team w/o a dominant guard like seattle or NY but i would be happy just getting beasley and someone like duhon or JCN in FA

wade and beasley would be a nightmare on the pick and roll and marion would lock down the opposing teams best forward, be it pf or sf while beasley could defend the other position...we would instantly have incredible offense, rebounding, etc...beasley would shine hear as he doesnt have to be the man but would be like our boozer

[SmushedPennies]

Despite my post, I'm actually with you. Beasley makes more sense for the Heat in terms of what he brings to the game.

If you ignore what we already have in place, Rose is the clear choice because he's a better building block for his position.

However, Beasley improves a major performance weakness for our team.

So its really a matter of which rout you want to go.

[miamiballer]

and with rose we would still need to find more scorers....

with beasley, all we would need are the role players

[heat4life]

There is a reason why players love to play with PG's such as Nash, Paul, Kidd etc. Kobe wanted Kidd, the not overaged version at least. Everyone wanted to go to Phoenix to play with Nash. NO might become the most attractive destination after this season and look at what Deron Williams has done in Utah.

[miamiballer]

[quote="SmushedPennies"][/quote]

i agree that we need a pg to take the load off wade but j will was more than enough in 06...we need a pg but not neccesarily a derrick rose type, even damon jones is good enough, it can be found in FA

find me a 20/10 pf for the MLE though because i think thats what beasley is off the bat

[miamiballer]

yeah if im building a team from scratch, give me rose

for the heat with what we have in place, i think we would be much better off with beasley, he is more nba ready and fills much more of a need, not to mention he has potential to.

[heat4life]

I am sorry miamiballer but you are making Beasley AN INSTANT STAR. How do you know we become unstoppable with Beasley? Who do you know we won't need more rebounding? how do you know we won't need more scorers?

Come on, let's not be naive here. Whether we draft Rose or Beasley, this team needs more of everything period. We are discussing "who fits better" in every aspect (play, roster, cap etc) short and long term.
I just think you are under appreciating what a player like Rose can do for your team.

[Flash4thewin]

With the current roster and lack of shooter its highly unlikely that Rose avg more that 6~7 assist his first season. Wade's number will go down but UD stats wont change much. Dorell should see his stats go up if we run more. If we run marion should be near 17~18 if were more half court expect his numbers to go down but rebounds to be constant.

Wade needs shooters to create spacing which we lacked last season, the season before he got hurt and rushed back to make it into the playoffs. The other season he won a championship being our "creator" Until Wade becomes comfortable/efficient as a spot up shooter you rob him of his abilities to create for others like our championship year and make him a less effective player. Thats why we won a championship with our pg basically turned into a spot up shooter but thats another topic.

Once the players get measured that will answer alot of questions. Kobe wanted Kidd, but with Pau has a better chance for a ring

[miamiballer]

I am sorry miamiballer but you are making Beasley AN INSTANT STAR. How do you know we become unstoppable with Beasley? Who do you know we won't need more rebounding? how do you know we won't need more scorers?

Come on, let's not be naive here. Whether we draft Rose or Beasley, this team needs more of everything period. We are discussing "who fits better" in every aspect (play, roster, cap etc) short and long term.
I just think you are under appreciating what a player like Rose can do for your team.

i am basing my projections off of recent drafts...beasley was just as dominant a scorer as durant and has even more bulk and rebounding ability than kevin durant...look at durant's rookie yr....

chris paul, the best pg in the game, took a while before he finally put it all together and is not/will never be a dominant scorer which is what we need right now, esp from the frontcourt position

[heat4life]

So Jason Kidd in his prime next to Kobe doesn't have a chance to win a Championship?

[miamiballer]

sure they have a chance but name me a team in the last decade that won w/o a post presence

[heat4life]

You are right, a team needs a dependable low post presence but Detroit was able to do it by placing a defender at center (Ben Wallace) and a perimeter oriented PF (Rasheed Wallace). Detroit's best post player? SF Tayshaun Prince and PG Chauncey Billups. Somehow they are either in the conference finals or finals every season for the past 6 years.

[Flash4thewin]

The only time the Pistons won was thanks to Malone getting hurt and Kobe basically sabotaging his team to be the man.

The next year with the Shaq trade if Wade didnt get hurt they were toast. When we were healthy we basically schooled them in the playoffs. Also notice that for what ever reason none of there starter has ever gotten hurt in the playoffs, thats the freakiest thing or they are just lucky.

[Wade2k6]

One more thing to think about. Rose is a good defender and is capable of locking the opposing PGs up everynight, can you say the same about Beasley? Beasley had trouble against NBA quality/ taller players in college last year

Against Rider (Jason Thompson) he had 13 points 10 rebound, Thompson had 24 points 7 rebounds

Against Luke Harongody (ND), Beasley had 19 points (8-20 shooting) 13 boards but Luke scored 19 points and grabbed 14 boards.

Against California, Ryan anderson scored 24 points and grabbed 11 boards, Beasley put up 19 and 11 boards.

Against Xavier Derrick Brown and Jason Love put up 25 points and 19 boards, while Beasley had 5 points 12 boards

Against Oklahoma, Beasley had a huge game 32 points and 11 boards, but Blake Griffin had 27 points and 14 boards

Against Texas Conner Atchley scored 15 points and 7 boards in just 15 minutes

Craig Brackins at Iowa State put up 24 and 8 boards, while Beasley put up 15-9

Struggled against the height and post size of Wisconsin in the tourtament.

I mean this isn't a reason to not draft Beasley, but I think it's something to be concerned about. Some of the players listed above aren't great players (Brackins, Brown, Jason Love) but the rest are players that will have NBA careers: Griffin, Thompson, Anderson, Harongody and possibly Conner Atchley.