Defense Right ?
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Defense Right ?
- ahwi_quacoe
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Defense Right ?
Why is is that more people are talking about acquiring an offensive Post player when the reason we lost to the Detroit Pistons the way we did was because we couldn't get any stops? Am I missing something ? I would prefer we improve our perimeter Defense and stop putting so much pressure on our Bigs. I'm not so worried about our offense . We need a Shooting guard with the size to play defense without being put at disadvantage all the time and if we can find a hustling big man . We don't need Mike Miller , we need defense , Defense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are a mediocre defensive team.
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^^^ Actually the sixers are a top 10 defensive team in the leage they are top 5 in steals, top 10 in blocks, and to 6 in opponents ppg, so they are a surprisingly good defensive team, but am i saying they cant improve, absolutly not but there main focus this off season should be on aquiring a goood low-post scorer.
They call me Hussien Fatal its a two game table im robbin you **** cradle wit a knife in your navel....
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We stink like poo on offense. Defense on the other hand we actually do a decent job at.
Case in point, our 96.2 playoff OE is 16th (IE Last).
Our DE (104.9) was 8th, average among playoff teams (And thus above average among all teams.
Same story during the regular season. 20th on offense 11th on defense.
While we may have not gotten a stop or two, we also forced 17 TPG from a team well known for being excellent at taking care of the ball. And it's kind of hard to get enough stops when you're only scoring 85 a night.
Case in point, our 96.2 playoff OE is 16th (IE Last).
Our DE (104.9) was 8th, average among playoff teams (And thus above average among all teams.
Same story during the regular season. 20th on offense 11th on defense.
While we may have not gotten a stop or two, we also forced 17 TPG from a team well known for being excellent at taking care of the ball. And it's kind of hard to get enough stops when you're only scoring 85 a night.
- ahwi_quacoe
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Sixerscan wrote:We stink like poo on offense. Defense on the other hand we actually do a decent job at.
Case in point, our 96.2 playoff OE is 16th (IE Last).
Our DE (104.9) was 8th, average among playoff teams (And thus above average among all teams.
Same story during the regular season. 20th on offense 11th on defense.
While we may have not gotten a stop or two, we also forced 17 TPG from a team well known for being excellent at taking care of the ball. And it's kind of hard to get enough stops when you're only scoring 85 a night.
What? Please , I know you guys love stats, but for the love of God , let's be unbiased in our approach to this team. If I follow your logic , we will become a better defensive team by scoring more. I take it you mean we will give up less transition points. True. but I am talking about in the half court sets. We couldn't get a stop in the last three games of the series. Mismatches all over the place.
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ahwi_quacoe wrote:Cuz , did you watch what Detroit did to them in the half court set ? The stats can say what they want but we don't play good man to man defense or transition defense.
Joke?
If we didn't play good defense why didn't they do a very good job scoring? Did our scorekeeper take points away from them or something? The stats aren't "saying what they want" they're saying what happened. People are who say what they want, such as yourself.
And are you really going to say defense was the problem in the last 3 games when we averaged 81 PPG? Really?
- ahwi_quacoe
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Now you feel like attacking me. You're a Moderator so I won't be baited into the juvenile talk. We didn't play good offense either, but the stats showed that we made Detroit turn the ball over a lot. Great. We are good at making the other team turnover the ball sometimes and then letting them score with a very high field goal percentage. What about those stats?
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ahwi_quacoe wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
What? Please , I know you guys love stats, but for the love of God , let's be unbiased in our approach to this team. If I follow your logic , we will become a better defensive team by scoring more.
No we'll be a better offensive team. If we become enough better at offense to off set any possible drop off on defense then we'll be a better team period.
It's easier to get better at something you are bad at than something you are already good at. Get it?
ahwi_quacoe wrote: I take it you mean we will give up less transition points. True. but I am talking about in the half court sets. We couldn't get a stop in the last three games of the series. Mismatches all over the place.
The last 3 games of the series our offense was too anemic for our defense to really matter.
In the games we actually won, we won because our defense shut them down, enough to make up for substandard offensive showings.
At the end of the day, we held a team with a 112 OE during the regular season to a 104.9 during a 6 game series. That's really good.
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ahwi_quacoe wrote:Now you feel like attacking me. You're a Moderator so I won't be baited into the juvenile talk. We didn't play good offense either, but the stats showed that we made Detroit turn the ball over a lot. Great. We are good at making the other team turnover the ball sometimes and then letting them score with a very high field goal percentage. What about those stats?
I'm not baiting you, I'm trying to get beyond the "this is my opinion and I'm not going to listen to anyone else's reasonings that make me look mistaken" feeling that some have because it's annoying and not conducive to good conversation.
Detroit is a good offensive team. They shot the ball 3% better, but they also turned the ball over 6 more times a game (Don't discount how huge 6 TOs a game are) and got to the line 5 less times. To put it in even simpler terms, despite playing at a slightly faster pace than a regular season Piston game, they scored 5 less points per game.
To put it in even simpler terms, you can't win NBA games when you only score 85 points per game.
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ahwi_quacoe wrote:Oh Yeah and you can make stats do whatever you want to. You can take the same numbers and turn a negative into a positive sort of what you did .
Then do so.
To recap,
We made a good offensive team play worse than they did against the average team (the sign of a good defensive team)
They made us play offense worse than than the average team did against Detriot during the regular season (the sign of a below average offensive team).
The regular season stats say we are a good defensive team and a bad offensive team. The regular season is a much bigger sample size and against the whole league so it's an even better indicator.
Seems pretty consistent.
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If you don't wanna do stats, when I watch this team, they make me want to rip my hair out on offense sometimes, and generally their defense is pretty good. I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what is and isn't good basketball, not a genius or anything but I'm competent. I respect that you disagree, but I don't respect how you discount any objective analysis, because then all we have are our opinions, and neither of us are exactly going to be asked to coach an NBA team any time soon if you know what I mean.
- ahwi_quacoe
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you are too funny, you want me to get past me genuinely believing that we need to improve our defense because you say I am mistaken and embarrassed to admit it . Is this really a dictatorship? I watched every game in that series and I felt Like tearing my hair out every time Detroit had an easy and almost uncontested lay-up or Jumpshot. We got destroyed time and time again in the pick and roll and Yet I'm supposed to console myself with the fact that we are a team that is good at forcing turnover's. Yes , let's improve offensively. You are right
- ahwi_quacoe
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Did you not see me agreeing that a better offensive player would help us ? Your points were valid but at the same time that does not make us a good defensive team. I have no problems acknowledging when someone makes a good point. Yet I have to disagree with you on the Sixers being a good defensive team . I am a very logical person , give me data and statements that I can reason with and I will acknowledge them . don't make me out to be one of those people who argue just because. You 've never had a discussion with me before.
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One thing that exposed our defense in the Detroit Series was Rasheed Wallace. Indeed, his ability to be able to back down the post and hit the mid-range jump shot allowed for Detroit's cutters to get easy looks at the bucket. And not only that, but he drew Dalembert outside of the paint.
From a coaching perspective, if we didn't want to put Thad on Prince, then we should've had Thad match up with Sheed instead of Maxwell. At age 33, Rasheed isn't going to be that much more powerful then a young and energentic forward. Plus, he can contest Rasheed's shots to an extent and keep Daly parked down low. Generally, forcing turnovers is a good thing but only if you can finish and aside from Lou Williams and Rodney Carney, we didn't have any finishers.
From a coaching perspective, if we didn't want to put Thad on Prince, then we should've had Thad match up with Sheed instead of Maxwell. At age 33, Rasheed isn't going to be that much more powerful then a young and energentic forward. Plus, he can contest Rasheed's shots to an extent and keep Daly parked down low. Generally, forcing turnovers is a good thing but only if you can finish and aside from Lou Williams and Rodney Carney, we didn't have any finishers.
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Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:One thing that exposed our defense in the Detroit Series was Rasheed Wallace. Indeed, his ability to be able to back down the post and hit the mid-range jump shot allowed for Detroit's cutters to get easy looks at the bucket. And not only that, but he drew Dalembert outside of the paint.
From a coaching perspective, if we didn't want to put Thad on Prince, then we should've had Thad match up with Sheed instead of Maxwell. At age 33, Rasheed isn't going to be that much more powerful then a young and energentic forward. Plus, he can contest Rasheed's shots to an extent and keep Daly parked down low. Generally, forcing turnovers is a good thing but only if you can finish and aside from Lou Williams and Rodney Carney, we didn't have any finishers.
Thad did guard Sheed and it looked terrible. Sheed shot over the top of him easily. I can remember Thad as clear as day guarding Sheed TIGHTLY behind the 3 point line in the corner where the camera can only see Sheed's back. Sheed just shot it right in Thad's face and Thad had no ability to do anything about that shot because he was too short.
- barkley34
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Our defense was decent against Detroit. We had spells when we got murdered on the offensive glass. We also had spells where we gave up too many open looks like the 1st quarter of game 6. Overall it was decent considering we had some matchup issues against Detroit.
Our offense was anemic at times especially the outside shooting that is why it is getting more attention.
Our offense was anemic at times especially the outside shooting that is why it is getting more attention.
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ahwi_quacoe wrote: We are good at making the other team turnover the ball sometimes and then letting them score with a very high field goal percentage. What about those stats?
Yes that is very true, we have a sort of gambling style of defense that results in a huge number of turnovers especially with the gimmicky "tempo press" and "switch on everything" style of defense Cheeks plays. When we need actual stops and good solid fundamental defense it rarely happens. The style of defense that we play often leads to MANY EASY scores for the opposition due to a clear mismatch happening because Cheeks is switching EVERYTHING and because the Sixers are gambling, trapping, and double teaming making the floor unbalanced so a good passing team will ALWAYS find the open man, hence Tayshaun Prince shooting 19 for 21 from the field at one point.
The Sixers defense is simply smoke and mirrors. The Sixers defense against the Pistons offense was like a YOUNG hot headed high school jock bully getting beat by an old Kung Fu expert. The Jock got a few good shots in very early because he caught the old Kung Fu expert off guard but then we all know what happened next...

Our team needs a lot to be able to compete. We need better half court coaching on the offensive end, the offense we run is very rudimentary. We need someone that can score in the low post and make plays out of that area of the floor. We need someone that can create their own offense from the perimeter. Ideally this person will be a threat to drive to the hoop as well as knock down 3 point jump shots off of the dribble and off of the catch and shoot.
Yes we do need players that can guard the perimeter better and new Championship level philosophies on both ends of the court. We need a more complex ball moving offense and players on defense that can guard their position and fight through pick and rolls.
I'm also afraid that if we get a post player like Brand at the top of his game, even though he isn't even a free agent, that our offense will still be stagnant because all we will do is run clear outs for him instead of looking to move the ball off of him for open shots. Our team with a high caliber PF will be the same thing as with Iguodala dominating the ball getting shut down, but now from the low post instead of the top of the key area.