Trading Kidd

[Captain_Obvious]

^^depends on how bad d'antoni wants his knicks to run.. with kidd at point and a little more tweaks, his knicks could see the playoffs by next season...

I think NY would have to do it. They unload some big contracts as Kidd will leave after this season. Kidd will make them better at make some players "sexy" for trades, like Crawford, Q, maybe Balkman scores some more other than outstanding D. They lose some talent but could bring their team on track for a quicker rebuild.

We could trade Josh and the expiring of Marion for good, young players. For example Josh and Bass to GS for their huge TE, that Wright dude and a first.
And then Marion for Lafrentz and Outlaw
Just dreaming
*Curry Wright Outlaw Mayo Rose*

@davidse:
Yeah, youre right. We wouldve to sweeten that deal, but it makes some sense. I dont think Crawford or Balkman can relieve them of any big contracts, while stil making their team much better.

[Rand10]

I don't see Cuban trading Kidd this year. He's not going to admit he screwed up that quickly.

I wouldn't mind extending Kidd for 1 more year, hopefully at around $8-10 million. That way we will still have his expiring to trade next season rather than losing him for nothing.

[davidse]

the knicks have no need for contracts that expire after next season.

what they want is cap space one year later.

so if they trade long term deals for shorter ones - they'll be looking for 2 year deals who will be much "cheaper" to acquire and just as usefull to their long term agenda - and not expiring deals.

a team like seatle or portland who are up for cap space in one year's time may value a huge expiring like kidd.

i think ridnour/watson/wilcox for kidd and pick may be a possiblity.

but the knicks wont' value kidd's contract as much as you'd hope.

now, this may sound crazy at first, but if im' chicago, i give very serious consideration to a kidd for hughes/hinrich deal.
that team really needs the financial flexiblity, and this will give you guys some options.

[JES12]

davidse

That is interesting.

Howard for Calderon & #17

Kidd for Artest, B. Miller, SAR (sorry, no Kenny Thomas as Millers & SAR's 2nd year and the 2-4 mil added this year is enough added salary)

Dampier / Miller
Nowitzki / Bass
Howard / R. Terry
Stackhouse / Wright
Calderon / J. Terry

[davidse]

davidse

That is interesting.

Howard for Calderon & #17

Kidd for Artest, B. Miller, SAR (sorry, no Kenny Thomas as Millers & SAR's 2nd year and the 2-4 mil added this year is enough added salary)

Dampier / Miller
Nowitzki / Bass
Howard / R. Terry
Stackhouse / Wright
Calderon / J. Terry

yeah, that's the basic plan that i was sure the mavs are gonna persue
(although you mistakenly put howard and not artest at small forward and didn't add the first rd pick player...)

the specifics - like which contracts come with artest, which raptors point guard do you target and what you get with him - is anyone's guess, but the basic outline of the plan is a very solid reloading plan imo.

howard for a raps' point guard
kidd for artest and 2 other kings
(imo, moore and k.thomas is a better package than miller and sar, but again this is semantics...)

you not only reload, but also improve the team's long term prospect over the current squad imo.

[JES12]

Fixed.

I also started a thread on the trade forum.
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=790489

I'm thinking that the #17 pick should go to Portland & #13 should go to the Kings.

[Deus]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I believe Kidd still has some talent left and it was Avery who didn't know what to do with him.

The Mavs will keep Kidd anyway. Its my prediction that Terry and Josh will be departing by next year. Cuban and Donnie will let Kidd's contract expire next summer. As it should be, because its time for some new blood in here anyway. Both Terry and Josh wore out their welcome here.

I just wish Damp could go with them.

[Teffer10]

Overall it's okay. Dallas' part is good, but I think Miami gets shafted a little and Milwaukee gets too good of a deal.

I don't think there is a theoretical limit, but 4 team deals hardly ever happen.

I have to agree about Miami.

You have brought up some pretty good ideas and if we were to blow up the roster and trade the big contracts for picks, expirings, and youth, I'm not so sure that I wouldn't be willing to include Bass in some of those trades if it meant positioning us better. For instance, if adding Bass to a trade to move up from a 4 to a 3 or 2 I would definitely consider trading Bass.

Here is my reasoning. I think Bass may become another one of those players who becomes vastly overpaid by Cuban. I think Bass is a very good player but I question how much upside he has. I don't see his ceiling being any higher than a Corliss Williamson type. I'm not saying to trade him just to get rid of him, but to help keep cap space down he might serve us better in a trade if we go the rebuild route. A guy like Darrell Arthur is projected to go in the late teens on many mock draft boards and I think he has more of an upside than Bass and will cost us virutally next to nothing over the next several years.

I like your trade ideas for the mixture of youth and cap space because one of the huge benefits is having all of those young players under contract with low salaries when some real studs become FAs in a few years.

[Teffer10]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I believe Kidd still has some talent left and it was Avery who didn't know what to do with him.

The Mavs will keep Kidd anyway. Its my prediction that Terry and Josh will be departing by next year. Cuban and Donnie will let Kidd's contract expire next summer. As it should be, because its time for some new blood in here anyway. Both Terry and Josh wore out their welcome here.

I just wish Damp could go with them.

This is where it becomes difficult for Cuban. If they hang on to Kidd this season and just let his contract expire, where does that leave Dirk in 09?
Coaching change or not, Kidd is extremely old and is showing it. I think Kidd and Dirk are okay together but there needs to be another solid consistent player to go with them but we have nothing left to trade to get that person. That is why I made a suggestion that was unpopular on this board to package Bass and Howard to attempt to get that player.
The Mavs aren't going to part with Bass so this team has virtually no chance of winning anything next season and Dirk will be one year older.

That is why I think it is time to stop beating this dying horse and trade Dirk now. Get rid of all these ridiculous contracts for shorter ones. Load this team up with as many draft picks as possible and clear cap space to get more youthful FAs in 2010/2011.
Lets have something to look forward to because a person is being unrealistically optimistic if he or she thinks this team will win a championship next season.

[JES12]

I'm not so sure that I wouldn't be willing to include Bass in some of those trades if it meant positioning us better. For instance, if adding Bass to a trade to move up from a 4 to a 3 or 2 I would definitely consider trading Bass.

Well, I wouldn't give Bass for Conley (last year's #4) or Green (last year's #5). Someone who can score 8.3 PPG on 50% shooting & 83% FT along with 4.4 RPG and decent defense in only 19.7 min in his 1st real year is better than Bayless or Mayo IMO. Bass is the type of player a rebuilding eam should be trageting, not trading. Unless we can use him to get the #2 (which I think Sonics rather have a PG if Rose is still there), I would not trade Bass in a rebuilding effort. Now if Dallas picked Rose #1 with Dirk's trade, then maybe sonics would do Bass + #5 for Beasley.

[Teffer10]

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Well, I wouldn't give Bass for Conley (last year's #4) or Green (last year's #5). Someone who can score 8.3 PPG on 50% shooting & 83% FT along with 4.4 RPG and decent defense in only 19.7 min in his 1st real year is better than Bayless or Mayo IMO. Bass is the type of player a rebuilding eam should be trageting, not trading. Unless we can use him to get the #2 (which I think Sonics rather have a PG if Rose is still there), I would not trade Bass in a rebuilding effort. Now if Dallas picked Rose #1 with Dirk's trade, then maybe sonics would do Bass + #5 for Beasley.

I do agree but in the grand scheme of things, I would not want to overpay Bass and compromise an opportunity to sign someone like LJ or CP3 in the process. For instance, if we are able to get ourselves 20Mil under the cap then signing Bass to a contract like Terry's might jeopardize the opportunity to sign a FA with superstar status.

On another note, the Mavs are in somewhat of a catch 22 situation with Bass if they don't go the rebuild route. If Bass takes his game to another level or 2, the Mavs probably won't be able to resign him the following off season.
If Bass under performs this next season, the Mavs probably have no chance of winning a championship.

It wouldn't surprise me if either Bass or Dirk are traded by February next season. If this team doesn't go the rebuild route this off season, it is pretty obvious to me that it will be screwed for the next decade.

[A-Town Connection]

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Well, I wouldn't give Bass for Conley (last year's #4) or Green (last year's #5). Someone who can score 8.3 PPG on 50% shooting & 83% FT along with 4.4 RPG and decent defense in only 19.7 min in his 1st real year is better than Bayless or Mayo IMO. Bass is the type of player a rebuilding eam should be trageting, not trading. Unless we can use him to get the #2 (which I think Sonics rather have a PG if Rose is still there), I would not trade Bass in a rebuilding effort. Now if Dallas picked Rose #1 with Dirk's trade, then maybe sonics would do Bass + #5 for Beasley.

I agree that if we rebuild we shouldn't look to move bass, but if we could snag Mayo or Conley... i would do that in a heart beat. I like bass. On a team that doesn't have Dirk, I could see if having a boozer-lite type role( with the right point guard). But I think Mayo will be an amazing two way player. Conley started slow but he has all the tools to be an all-star point for many years to come.

[Teffer10]

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I agree that if we rebuild we shouldn't look to move bass, but if we could snag Mayo or Conley... i would do that in a heart beat. I like bass. On a team that doesn't have Dirk, I could see if having a boozer-lite type role( with the right point guard). But I think Mayo will be an amazing two way player. Conley started slow but he has all the tools to be an all-star point for many years to come.

Very similar to my thoughts.

Bass is a fine player but I don't see the upside that many others seem to see. I don't think he will be much more to this team than what he was last season. A great player coming off the bench to spell Dirk but I don't want to see him playing center. With Dirk on this team we don't necessarily need Bass if he is able to help fill another dire need via a trade.
If we rebuild, Bass would be a fine pf if we have good star pieces around him. However, with his contract coming up, I'm afraid that we would concentrate on keeping him and screw up any opportunity to sign a bigger fish in FA.
I would definitely consider trading Bass no matter which direction this team chooses to go if there is an opportunity to upgrade.

I honestly think Bass is a little overrated on this board. Not for what he has done, but the potential to get much better is where I see the inflated enthusiasm from others. I just don't get that sense about his game but hope that I am wrong.

[A-Town Connection]

I tend to agree with what you are saying Telfair. Bass is a solid player. He provides us with a much needed back up to Dirk and provides a great matchup against certian teams( such as the warriors). I like him, but if there was a chance to get player on the level of Mayo or Conley, I don't see how we wouldn't jump to trade him. Yeah, i think he might be a bit over-rated on our board, but so are most fans of their players. Blazer fans are allowed to feel their 12th is worth more than Josh Howard...so w/e

[Teffer10]

I tend to agree with what you are saying Telfair. Bass is a solid player. He provides us with a much needed back up to Dirk and provides a great matchup against certian teams( such as the warriors). I like him, but if there was a chance to get player on the level of Mayo or Conley, I don't see how we wouldn't jump to trade him. Yeah, i think he might be a bit over-rated on our board, but so are most fans of their players. Blazer fans are allowed to feel their 12th is worth more than Josh Howard...so w/e

Yeah...that is where I'm coming from with Bass. Dirk's backup is important but probably the least important on the team at this point. Damp is the only center, Kidd has had injury problems and is old, we still have no SG, and who knows about Howard next season. Dirk is the iron man on this team so that is where we least need a backup imo. If Bass stays he will need to get minutes and quite frankly I only see him as a pf.

So why not dangle him in the off-season to attempt to improve in some of those other areas.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we want to rebuild, we need a young superstar in the next few years to have any type of opportunity to compete with Portland, NO, and maybe a few others. If Bass can help get us a higher pick that has the potential to be a superstar then that trade has to be made. Also, as I've mentioned before, Bass' contract is up next season and if we can somehow get under the cap next season, why spend a huge chunk of it on someone like Bass?
If we rebuild but can't draft a superstar caliber player in 08 or 09 then we at least would have some money to go after someone who is a superstar. I just don't want to get caught up in a horrible contract again with Bass. We all thought Damp, Terry, Stack, Finley, and some others were worth it and now we see how those contracts have handcuffed us on getting any players.
You would think Cuban would be sick of handing out so much money and getting nothing in return.

[arkuo]

reading between the lines from carlisle's interviews, i doubt jason kidd is going anywhere... i pretty sure he'll still be a mav next season...

dirk and kidd are probably gonna be mavs next season...
josh might still be a mav..
terry might be the one to go... but with terry being our only "quick" guard to defend quicker guards, im not sure if our FO will let him go..

[A-Town Connection]

At this point, i think terry stays. Besides him, who hits a wide open outside shot....

[Pointguard01]

I dont know why we are reading so much into Carlisle's interview's. He is going to say the right things. I was watching Dale Hansen's interview with him tonight, and he mentioned bringing in new blood. Now he said that after mentioning FAs, but that could easily be a sign that core players could be moved IMO. He also specifically mentioned how he has a "hunch" that there will be changes. Now I dont know if that means with role players or with our core 4-5 players.

He has to be poltitically correct now, to keep our players trade value high, and because its just the right thing to do. But we've seen that from Cuban & Co. before and then they turn around and make a huge trade.

[A-Town Connection]

I dont know why we are reading so much into Carlisle's interview's. He is going to say the right things. I was watching Dale Hansen's interview with him tonight, and he mentioned bringing in new blood. Now he said that after mentioning FAs, but that could easily be a sign that core players could be moved IMO. He also specifically mentioned how he has a "hunch" that there will be changes. Now I dont know if that means with role players or with our core 4-5 players.

He has to be poltitically correct now, to keep our players trade value high, and because its just the right thing to do. But we've seen that from Cuban & Co. before and then they turn around and make a huge trade.

I agree. I remember KG, Iverson, ect all said they didn't want to be traded, yet we all know what was going on. Players and FO talk all the time and lead the appearance that one thing is goin on. Sometimes its misdirection. Maybe they are trying to build up value. Idk, but you make a good point, you can't always take what they say at face value. Heck, Cuban we weren't interested in Kidd once upon a time.

[Teffer10]

At this point, i think terry stays. Besides him, who hits a wide open outside shot....

Unfortunately I agree with you about Terry staying. Carlisle says he wants to pick up the tempo with Kidd.
When I look down this roster I see Terry and Howard (Wright too if he resigns) that can run with Kidd.
After that, it is Dirk, Damp, Bass, Stackhouse, and Jones. Jones might be able to run some but those are some pretty old legs.

There seems to be a contrast with the style that Carlisle wants to play and the current personnel on this team.
Carlisle calls it some tweaking but I think there will be wholesale changes in the off season...hopefully in the direction of rebuilding.