The Retooling Thread: What do we do now
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HeatSince88
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Put this in another thread, but I thought it would fit better here. If Rose goes #1, here are some young PG possibilities who could work next to Wade. I excluded guys we have no chance of getting with the MLE (Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon) and focused on possibilities, even if they're remote:
MLE Possibilities - Young PGs
- Louis Williams: Philly is looking to use their cap space for a stud PF, thus leaving open the slight possibility they would not match a max MLE offer for Williams. If they match the offer, they lose the cap space for a stud. Though he's not a pass-first PG, he'd complement Wade well and is still improving at just 21 years old. In two years, I see him as a Monta Ellis.
- Daniel Gibson: The type of PG Wade needs next to him -- an absolute dead-eye shooter that comes up big in the clutch and holds his own defensively. Still very young at 22. The Cavs would match a deal for him OR Delonte, but probably not both. You could offer to one, let them match, then offer the other. The Cavs are total cheapskates.
- Delonte West: Tough dude who also nails dagger 3's and backs down from no one. Showed what he can do playing off of a dominant penetrator in the playoffs. Still only 24. And again, I see the Cavs matching an offer for him OR Gibson, but not both. No way they pay those guys a combined $10-$12 million a year.
- Juan Carlos Navarro: More of a two-guard really without the size, but would play off Wade very well. Brings the ball up, nails daggers, plays with energy. There's a chance Memphis won't match an MLE offer considering their cheapness. Also, don't discount Riley's wining-and-dining (hopefully not 69ing) of JCN last offseason. Not all that young per se (27) but right around Wade's age.
- Beno Udrih Had a pretty good year in Sacramento apparently. Are they still in the NBA? They're looking to keep him, but he's unrestricted so who knows what'll happen. 25 years old.
- Chris Duhon: Pretty good chance he's played his last game as a Bull. Defends and shoots, but not as much of a playmaker as the guys above. Would be a nice role player next to Wade though. 25 years old.
- Keyon Dooling, Carlos Arroyo, Sebastian Telfair are some other names to consider. And a wildcard ....
- Shaun Livingston: Believe me, I'm not saying let's sign this guy. I mean, can he even walk? But it wouldn't surprise me if he got an offer for some decent money, and the Clips didn't match (again, the cheapskate thing). If there's hope health-wise, he's got serious talent. And Riley has taken injury risks before (Odom, Brian Grant, Timmy I think?) although to a FAR lesser degree obviously.
So there you have it, TONS of young PG options who would work well next to Wade. Keep in mind, possibly the best Heat team we've ever had featured Damon Jones at PG next to Wade, and most of the guys above are better than friggin Damon Jones...
MLE Possibilities - Young PGs
- Louis Williams: Philly is looking to use their cap space for a stud PF, thus leaving open the slight possibility they would not match a max MLE offer for Williams. If they match the offer, they lose the cap space for a stud. Though he's not a pass-first PG, he'd complement Wade well and is still improving at just 21 years old. In two years, I see him as a Monta Ellis.
- Daniel Gibson: The type of PG Wade needs next to him -- an absolute dead-eye shooter that comes up big in the clutch and holds his own defensively. Still very young at 22. The Cavs would match a deal for him OR Delonte, but probably not both. You could offer to one, let them match, then offer the other. The Cavs are total cheapskates.
- Delonte West: Tough dude who also nails dagger 3's and backs down from no one. Showed what he can do playing off of a dominant penetrator in the playoffs. Still only 24. And again, I see the Cavs matching an offer for him OR Gibson, but not both. No way they pay those guys a combined $10-$12 million a year.
- Juan Carlos Navarro: More of a two-guard really without the size, but would play off Wade very well. Brings the ball up, nails daggers, plays with energy. There's a chance Memphis won't match an MLE offer considering their cheapness. Also, don't discount Riley's wining-and-dining (hopefully not 69ing) of JCN last offseason. Not all that young per se (27) but right around Wade's age.
- Beno Udrih Had a pretty good year in Sacramento apparently. Are they still in the NBA? They're looking to keep him, but he's unrestricted so who knows what'll happen. 25 years old.
- Chris Duhon: Pretty good chance he's played his last game as a Bull. Defends and shoots, but not as much of a playmaker as the guys above. Would be a nice role player next to Wade though. 25 years old.
- Keyon Dooling, Carlos Arroyo, Sebastian Telfair are some other names to consider. And a wildcard ....
- Shaun Livingston: Believe me, I'm not saying let's sign this guy. I mean, can he even walk? But it wouldn't surprise me if he got an offer for some decent money, and the Clips didn't match (again, the cheapskate thing). If there's hope health-wise, he's got serious talent. And Riley has taken injury risks before (Odom, Brian Grant, Timmy I think?) although to a FAR lesser degree obviously.
So there you have it, TONS of young PG options who would work well next to Wade. Keep in mind, possibly the best Heat team we've ever had featured Damon Jones at PG next to Wade, and most of the guys above are better than friggin Damon Jones...
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Flash3
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HeatSince88 wrote:Put this in another thread, but I thought it would fit better here. If Rose goes #1, here are some young PG possibilities who could work next to Wade. I excluded guys we have no chance of getting with the MLE (Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon) and focused on possibilities, even if they're remote:
Chris Quinn isn't necessarily a bad option as compared to Beno Udrih, is he?
He'd come much cheaper, and he already knows how to play in our system and along side Wade; and has shown 'true' PG skills, to an extent.
Mars wrote:You can't stop the asterisk... you can only hope to contain it.
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Lane1974
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HeatSince88
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Flash3 wrote:Chris Quinn isn't necessarily a bad option as compared to Beno Udrih, is he?
He'd come much cheaper, and he already knows how to play in our system and along side Wade; and has shown 'true' PG skills, to an extent.
Yeah. I think Udrih is a bit more of a playmaker (Quinn is super cautious) but like you, I'd rather pay Quinn 1yr/$1.2mill than pay Udrih 5 years, $35 mill.
I dunno, some people have a high opinion of Udrih now, but I can't say I watched enough Kings b-ball this year to form that opinion.
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Flash3
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Likewise, though towards the latter part of the season, you had plenty of people speaking highly about him, and his play. -- Was he playing for a contract, or did he finally find his game?HeatSince88 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Yeah. I think Udrih is a bit more of a playmaker (Quinn is super cautious) but like you, I'd rather pay Quinn 1yr/$1.2mill than pay Udrih 5 years, $35 mill.
I dunno, some people have a high opinion of Udrih now, but I can't say I watched enough Kings b-ball this year to form that opinion.
I'd still sign Quinn to a new deal, and try and get a real play making PG, who keep Banks; as he provides us offense AND defense @ the 1.
Mars wrote:You can't stop the asterisk... you can only hope to contain it.
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DBurks2818
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SmushedPennies
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Wow, I guess Heat fans haven't even been watching Heat games this year. No one remembers the game in SAC? Udrih was their MVP. He's really gotten a chance to show what he's made of outside of San Antonio. The guy can shoot and create, was farmed in the Spurs system, and would probably come cheap. I've been really high on him as an option if Rose is not the pick. Otherwise, I like Gibson, and maybe Dooling or Williams (would like to see more from him).
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Flash3
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SmushedPennies wrote:Wow, I guess Heat fans haven't even been watching Heat games this year. No one remembers the game in SAC? Udrih was their MVP. He's really gotten a chance to show what he's made of outside of San Antonio. The guy can shoot and create, was farmed in the Spurs system, and would probably come cheap. I've been really high on him as an option if Rose is not the pick. Otherwise, I like Gibson, and maybe Dooling or Williams (would like to see more from him).
Gibson isn't really a PG, though he can play it. - Dooling's a black hole on offense, and there's no way I want him as our starting PG, and our back-up is almost set with Quinn, if re-signed.
Mars wrote:You can't stop the asterisk... you can only hope to contain it.
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FlashTheKilla
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Hey all, I'm new to the realgm.com boards. Been a long time poster on the ESPN boards, but I can't really take it anymore, too much trolling, and too much idiocy. No, I'm not a bandwagon fan.
Anyways...in terms of retooling:
If we do end up with Beasley, I am convinced that Beno Udrih is our PG of the future. If you haven't seen Beno play on the Kings yet, find a way to check him out. The guy is pretty good. Makes good decisions, rebounds decently for a PG, and can knock down the three very well. He is also around the same age as Wade. If he shoots the three at a .387 clip on the Kings, imagine what he could do on wide open looks off Wade penetration and Beasley double teams?? He's got good size for a PG at 6'3" 205 lbs. He's also lefty.
In terms of the Center position, what do you guys think about Diop? He's offensively challenged, but we won't require him to have offense. The only thing he'll need to do is dunk. A little clumsy and slow, but will bring defense and rebounding, which is about all you can ask for from the Center position these days (other than Amare, Yao, and Dwight Howard, and possibly Oden). Also the same age as Wade.
Anyways...in terms of retooling:
If we do end up with Beasley, I am convinced that Beno Udrih is our PG of the future. If you haven't seen Beno play on the Kings yet, find a way to check him out. The guy is pretty good. Makes good decisions, rebounds decently for a PG, and can knock down the three very well. He is also around the same age as Wade. If he shoots the three at a .387 clip on the Kings, imagine what he could do on wide open looks off Wade penetration and Beasley double teams?? He's got good size for a PG at 6'3" 205 lbs. He's also lefty.
In terms of the Center position, what do you guys think about Diop? He's offensively challenged, but we won't require him to have offense. The only thing he'll need to do is dunk. A little clumsy and slow, but will bring defense and rebounding, which is about all you can ask for from the Center position these days (other than Amare, Yao, and Dwight Howard, and possibly Oden). Also the same age as Wade.
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Flash3
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Pfund was on the Joe Rose show and was commenting on Riley's comments of possibly moving the pick, and all he said is that one way or the other, we're going to add a quality youngster.....
We aren't going to get much out from this team, one way or the other...
We aren't going to get much out from this team, one way or the other...
Mars wrote:You can't stop the asterisk... you can only hope to contain it.
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heat4life
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HeatSince88
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SmushedPennies wrote:Wow, I guess Heat fans haven't even been watching Heat games this year. No one remembers the game in SAC? Udrih was their MVP.
I remember that game, but I also remember the occasional game when Harold Miner dropped 30+ points like Michael Jordan. I also remember guys like Dan Dickau and Bob Sura putting up huge numbers on lottery teams for a short 3-month period of their multiyear careers.
What I'm saying is, you've got to take things on the whole ... and on the whole, Udrih put up about the same PER as Quinn did in his "breakout" year, despite being years further in his development.
As I mentioned before, I believe Udrih is a better playmaker than Quinn, and would certainly prefer Udrih as my PG. But I don't know that the slight upgrade in playmaking is worth the vast difference in the contracts they'd command (1yr/1.2mill versus 5 yrs/35mill).
I'd rather go after the top 3 guys on that list (L Williams, D Gibson, D West), and if that doesn't work out, maybe try for guys like Duhon on a smaller deal.
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heat4life
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tsherkin
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Cleveland better freaking match for West, he's critical to their continued success unless their idiot GM manages to pull off a steal for a point guard with a reliable 3-ball...
Honestly, Danny Ferry is like Kiki Vandeweghe meets Mark Warkentien... not outrageously incompetent in the fashion of Isiah Thomas and his 'sound financial planning,' but completely and utterly useless...
*grumble*
Honestly, Danny Ferry is like Kiki Vandeweghe meets Mark Warkentien... not outrageously incompetent in the fashion of Isiah Thomas and his 'sound financial planning,' but completely and utterly useless...
*grumble*