Delonte West

MyInsatiableOne · Post #41 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:04 pm

GuyClinch wrote:I don't understand the constant urge to bring back C's who couldn't get us wins. West and Gomes wouldn't help us at all.

West would ride the bench - become bitter about it - sulk when he got in. Then he would miss key shots and this whole board would be like WTF. This is what happened when he was here - and played behind Rondo. It's what happened in Seattle when he fell behind Watson.

Gomes who was starting in Minnesota wouldn't want to come here and play spot minutes behind Pierce for much the same reasons.

If we have learned ANYTHING from this year it should be that you DO NOT WANT a bench of young players who see themselves "on the way up."

You want battle tested vets who can come in and show their stuff within a team concept. I'd take Eddie House over Banks AND West..not because he is better then those guys but because he is a team player even in a minor role.

Guys like West will be an option in five years assuming they can keep up their current level of play. In the meantime I hope we draft a project PG/SG in the upcoming draft. We can groom him to be Rondo's backup as he won't come in here with preconcieved notions of grandeur.

As for Perkins NO it IS rare to get a center that can play AT ALL that late in the draft. Most late round bigs are total busts. It's only because of the HS rule that we were able to steal him.

As we have discussed before the HS thing was a boon for the C's because Danny could correctly evaluate HS talent whereas other GMs couldn't. Danny knew right from the start what he had in Perkins. He never claimed greatness just that he would be in the league at least ten years.

Pete

Pete, you've made me reconsider wanting West back. Antoine I'd still want back for leadership purposes and he could be nice off the bench, but now Delonte, no.

Kids Are Alright · Post #42 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:18 pm

interesting how Rondo sagged about 10' off West in game 6 and 7, made no attempt to pressure him, almost like he was doing a favor to an old friend, or has West got that quick a first step?

bru87tr · Post #43 » by **bru87tr** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:21 pm

delonte was better than average. dont know why fans say that.........

his heart alone raises him above average.

I am glad he found a home and hope he keeps his job for a long time.

Banks2Pierce · Post #44 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:29 pm

I see that side of the equation now. There is no way that they sign here when they can sign places and be starters.

sam_I_am · Post #45 » by **sam_I_am** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:32 pm

Pete,

Don't bring back young players with 4 years experience but instead draft someone you can groom? That makes no sense at all.

DWest was asked to be the 3rd best player and a starting PG. As a guy to play 25 min. as backup to Ray and Rondo, and as a guy who won't pass up open J's like Perk and Rondo do he would be a huge asset. Eddie House is an asset. On last years 19 win team he would have been useless. Much like Bruce Bowen was in Boston. When West was the 5th option 3 years ago, Walkers passing made him look like a budding star. Lebron's passing makes him look good. What would being on the floor with Garnett do? And unlike House and Allen, West can rebound, block shots and play very good team defense.

But West would be foolish to leave Cleveland and that is why it will never happen. So you need not worry about it.

As far as Perk being that hard to find I just don't agree. I think Brendon Haywood, Anderson Varejao, Carlos Boozer etc. are more talented, more productive and were not "HS kids that were stolen" in late 1st round or second round.

Perk does a lot of nice things but he is still a big man who barely plays above the rim (by NBA standards). He is an offensive liability on our team and we have 3 franshise players and a budding star at PG on the floor with him.

ermocrate · Post #46 » by **ermocrate** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:50 pm

Still talking about this bag of garbagge guys? Take some rest... :lol:

celticfan42487 · Post #47 » by **celticfan42487** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Kids Are Alright wrote:interesting how Rondo sagged about 10' off West in game 6 and 7, made no attempt to pressure him, almost like he was doing a favor to an old friend, or has West got that quick a first step?

we were playing the triangle against LeBron. Rondo was in position for help defense/passing lanes coverage.

Even if West drove he would of meet 2 help defenders who were there for LeBron's drive.

GuyClinch · Post #48 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:15 pm

DWest was asked to be the 3rd best player and a starting PG. As a guy to play 25 min. as backup to Ray and Rondo, and as a guy who won't pass up open J's like Perk and Rondo do he would be a huge asset

You GREATLY understimate the ego of the average NBA player. D. West has proven on two occasions that he underperforms when he is not the starter.

While his game style WOULD theoretically make him a decent backup his ego gets in the way. Were you not watching? He was TICKED OFF that he was no longer the starting PG for the Celtics. He was ANGRY.

In his one statistically "good" season he was the starter. And this latest year again he only played decently when he was a starter.

Look at his history - rookie year - didn't start except for 7 games - shot .426. Second year his "good" year - shot .487 as a starter (71 games)

This year he shot only .413 from the field BUT he shot .440 with Cleveland where he got to start 26 games (vs. 5 in Seattle where he shot .388).

It's only some kind of misguided love that makes him want to come back as bench player. I don't see what's so wrong about grooming a legit PG. That's what Detroit did - and its working out well for them.

You CAN get good PG talent late in the draft. Obviously if there is a good big you take that. But a good PG is much more likely. Let West stay in Cleveland and start.

He will be an assest for us every time we face them in the playoffs as the "Lebron as uber PG" is preferrable to "Lebron as uber swingman" IMHO. In addition Rondo will be able to beat him off the dribble at will for the next ten years. It's a win - win.

Pete

sam_I_am · Post #49 » by **sam_I_am** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:59 pm

"Lebron as uber PG" is preferrable to "Lebron as uber swingman" IMHO.

You are dead on there. Much like when we had Paul Pierce and Walker and no true PG. Lebron will be unstoppable if he ever gets a true PG who sets him up for easy baskets.

Vincent Burnett · Post #50 » by **Vincent Burnett** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:08 pm

Delonte outplayed Rondo IMO. Delonte was LBJs main sidekick. He played some great D also. Delonte will be much richer next season.

Vincenzo

Gomes3PC · Post #51 » by **Gomes3PC** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:27 am

Put Rondo next to Lebron and he'd play FAR better than West did. With all the attention LBJ gets, Rondo would get easy one on ones with the opposing guard and slash to the tin mercilessly. West 'outplayed' Rondo because Rajon was sliding over to help cut off penetration by Lebron on every play, and dared West to shoot. Delonte is a good shooter and unlike Wally took advantage of that.

Let's not call West the second coming here. He was the 2nd option at the end of the series because he had to be. No one else would shoot it. Z was neutralized finally by PJ and a more physical attitude from Powe/Baby. Wally/Sasha wanted no part of the ball. Varejao/Smith/Wallace are not scorers. Boobie got hurt. That left West.

Delonte's best possible scenario is a Derek Fisher role for Cleveland. Not a real PG but since their best player holds the ball 80% of the time, if he plays superb D and shoots lights-out from 3, he can be effective as a starter. What Lebron needs is a Gasol+Odom to make West the 4th option/clutch shooter like Fisher is, not a 2nd option.

Put Delonte on a team with mediocre talent, like Sacramento, and he would struggle. Rondo would be a far better player in terms of getting his team to play well than West. Delonte simply cannot use his nondominant hand to dribbleo or drive, and he is a facilitator of the offense, not a playmaker. With a guy like James or Bryant, he doesn't have to make plays, just hit jumpers, which he has always been able to do.

GuyClinch · Post #52 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:59 am

With a guy like James or Bryant, he doesn't have to make plays, just hit jumpers, which he has always been able to do.

He shot .427 with us last year and .413 this year. He doesn't "always" hit his jumpers. He is an okay 3 point shooter...which makes up for that some.

Pete

wigglestrue · Post #53 » by **wigglestrue** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:06 am

Vincent Burnett wrote:Delonte outplayed Rondo IMO. Delonte was LBJs main sidekick. He played some great D also. Delonte will be much richer next season.

Vincenzo

MyInsatiableOne · Post #54 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:03 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
With a guy like James or Bryant, he doesn't have to make plays, just hit jumpers, which he has always been able to do.

He shot .427 with us last year and .413 this year. He doesn't "always" hit his jumpers. He is an okay 3 point shooter...which makes up for that some.

Pete

He only seemed to make the 3's when it would hurt us...except of course when he was on the C's!

And ^^wigglestrue, I agree :rofl:

GuyClinch · Post #55 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:38 pm

Delonte plays with fire against us - because he is angry of course. He was the PG of the future remember? Just like Banks beat up on Delonte when he was in Minnesota. He was angry too.

But much like Randy Brown its not always a good idea to grab guys that play well against your own team.

pete

MyInsatiableOne · Post #56 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:59 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Delonte plays with fire against us - because he is angry of course. He was the PG of the future remember? Just like Banks beat up on Delonte when he was in Minnesota. He was angry too.

But much like Randy Brown its not always a good idea to grab guys that play well against your own team.

pete

Eddie House seems to be the exception to this...he used to TORCH us when he was on Miami...and now I'm glad we have him!