Trading Kidd

[A-Town Connection]

[quote="Teffer10"][/quote]

Again we agree. Rebuilding needs to happen, but I doubt it will. If we want to run more, than terry has to stay. On the break, we will need someone that is a deadeye shooter and terry can be that some nights. I actually was impressed with Terrys play against NO. I still think he plays with heart every single night( something we can't say about alot of people on this team). Would i like to have a more ideal shooting guard that is bigger and possibly better D....sign me up, but where do you get him. Redd will be aavailable, but more than likley at the cost of Josh( which i wouldnt do). Maybe get J.R. Smith. Again, I feel terry is better than him in most categories. So idk where to go.

To me, terry wasn't the problem. He has never been a star and never will be. He will be a great third option on this team. We need our second option to step up( or be traded) to see what this team cn really do.

This year more than ever it seems like you need 3 people scoring consistantly to win the in playoffs. The Lakers has Kobe, Gasol, and Odom. The C's have KG, PP, and Allen. Detriot has Chancy, Sheed, and Hamilton. The Spurs have Manu, TD, and Parker..the list goes on and on.
For us to win, we need scoring from all three. Dirk usually carries his load but eventually he will start seeing the double and triple teams, that is when someone has to step up.

[Darren]

If we rebuild, we need to go ALL the way, not half-ass it!

Trade 1
Dirk for Marion + #1 (or 2 pending on how the balls fall)

Trade 2
Shawn Marion for Quienten Richardson, Malik Rose & #5

Trade 3
Howard for Antoine Walker (expiring) & #4

Trade 4
Jason Terry + Erick Dampier for Ben Wallace, Damon Jones & #19

Trade 5
Jason Kidd for Raef Lafrentz, Steve Blake & #13

Buyout expirings of Walker, D. Jones & Lafrentz

Let Eddie Jones retire.

Heat pick--------PG-Rose
Wolves pick-----SG-Mayo
Blazer pick------SF-Batum
Already have----PF-Bass
Knicks pick-------C-Lopez
Cavalier pick-----C-Hibbert

New lineup
C - Lopez / Hibbert / Wallace
PF - Bass / Rose (exp)
SF - Batum / R. Terry
SG - Mayo / Wright / Richardson
PG - Rose / Blake (exp) / Barea

#1 pick in 2009.
Plenty of cap room to go after James, D. Williams, Granger, Bosh, etc in summer 2010.

I don't think we should give up Damp + JET for Big Ben and #19 unless the offer is intriguing. BTW, Hibbert is not one of those guys I'd pick.

Maybe we should pick both Lopez for fantasy reason. Then move Bass to SF and #13 the sixth man.

[Teffer10]

-= original quote snipped =-



Again we agree. Rebuilding needs to happen, but I doubt it will. If we want to run more, than terry has to stay. On the break, we will need someone that is a deadeye shooter and terry can be that some nights. I actually was impressed with Terrys play against NO. I still think he plays with heart every single night( something we can't say about alot of people on this team). Would i like to have a more ideal shooting guard that is bigger and possibly better D....sign me up, but where do you get him. Redd will be aavailable, but more than likley at the cost of Josh( which i wouldnt do). Maybe get J.R. Smith. Again, I feel terry is better than him in most categories. So idk where to go.

To me, terry wasn't the problem. He has never been a star and never will be. He will be a great third option on this team. We need our second option to step up( or be traded) to see what this team cn really do.

This year more than ever it seems like you need 3 people scoring consistantly to win the in playoffs. The Lakers has Kobe, Gasol, and Odom. The C's have KG, PP, and Allen. Detriot has Chancy, Sheed, and Hamilton. The Spurs have Manu, TD, and Parker..the list goes on and on.
For us to win, we need scoring from all three. Dirk usually carries his load but eventually he will start seeing the double and triple teams, that is when someone has to step up.

One thing that concerns me about the running style game for this team is the end of games. We don't have a goto guy down the stretch to carry this team on his shoulders when the game slows down with fouls and timeouts. We better get that type of player or make sure that we are damn far ahead, or drastically improve defensively (especially at guarding the rim).

I personally don't see Dirk and Kidd getting us to a championship.

The only part of that I don't agree with you on is Terry as a third option. I like him as a sparkplug off the bench during the game, not at the end of games unless we need to score a lot of points in a short period of time.
If Terry is the third option going into next season we will be in trouble unless Dirk is somehow the 2nd option.

[Rand10]

One thing that concerns me about the running style game for this team is the end of games. We don't have a goto guy down the stretch to carry this team on his shoulders when the game slows down with fouls and timeouts. We better get that type of player or make sure that we are damn far ahead, or drastically improve defensively (especially at guarding the rim).

I personally don't see Dirk and Kidd getting us to a championship.

The only part of that I don't agree with you on is Terry as a third option. I like him as a sparkplug off the bench during the game, not at the end of games unless we need to score a lot of points in a short period of time.
If Terry is the third option going into next season we will be in trouble unless Dirk is somehow the 2nd option.

Howard is the problem at the end of games. I think Terry is fine as a 3rd option, but when Josh completely disappears it forces Terry to become our 2nd option. That's what won't cut it.

[A-Town Connection]

-= original quote snipped =-


Howard is the problem at the end of games. I think Terry is fine as a 3rd option, but when Josh completely disappears it forces Terry to become our 2nd option. That's what won't cut it.

Wow, you beat me to this post. Howard disappears, not Terry. He has been one of our most solid players at the end of games. I know he is streaky, but as a third option, i will take him. Problem is, our second option hasn't been that great lately.

[Pointguard01]

I think the one guy that could be something for Dallas is Corey Maggette. I dont know what it would take to get him, but if we could throw out a lineup of Kidd-Howard-Maggette-Dirk-Dampier with Terry as our 6th man, I'd love it.

It would have to involve Stackhouse's 2 million guarenteed contract next offseason + Brandan Bass, but I think that would be well worth it. We would have to find a 3rd team that would want Bass and value him enough, cuz I dont think the Clips need Bass with Brand & maggette is basically expiring.

We could then resign guys like Wright or George to go with Eddie Jones to backup SG/SF and then I'd look to get PF/C with the MLE. Not a great, exciting offseason, but Magggette becomes out 2nd guy, moves Howard to the 3rd option, & Terry's offense would just be bonus.

[Teffer10]

I think the one guy that could be something for Dallas is Corey Maggette. I dont know what it would take to get him, but if we could throw out a lineup of Kidd-Howard-Maggette-Dirk-Dampier with Terry as our 6th man, I'd love it.

It would have to involve Stackhouse's 2 million guarenteed contract next offseason + Brandan Bass, but I think that would be well worth it. We would have to find a 3rd team that would want Bass and value him enough, cuz I dont think the Clips need Bass with Brand & maggette is basically expiring.

We could then resign guys like Wright or George to go with Eddie Jones to backup SG/SF and then I'd look to get PF/C with the MLE. Not a great, exciting offseason, but Magggette becomes out 2nd guy, moves Howard to the 3rd option, & Terry's offense would just be bonus.

I was thinking of something similar but with Mike Miller instead of Maggette.

Something like Stack and Bass for Miller or Bass, Wright(S&T) and DG(S&T) for Miller.

Miller is not as athletic as Maggette but has size, is aggressive, can create his own shot when needed, and has unlimited range.

Either Maggette or Miller would be fine with me. I just think Memphis would have more of a need for Bass than the Clips.

[Pointguard01]

I agree.

But I also dont think Miller takes us to the next level or fits as well with this team. If we are gonna have Dirk, & assuming we cant find a taker for Terry & Howard's value is too low to trade, Maggette's slashing fits much better with the jumpshooters of Dirk, Terry & Howard than Miller, who while a great shooter, is still another jumpshooter.

[Teffer10]

I agree.

But I also dont think Miller takes us to the next level or fits as well with this team. If we are gonna have Dirk, & assuming we cant find a taker for Terry & Howard's value is too low to trade, Maggette's slashing fits much better with the jumpshooters of Dirk, Terry & Howard than Miller, who while a great shooter, is still another jumpshooter.

Very much agree. My thoughts on Miller is that it would be an upgrade to what we have now but we probably wouldn't have to give up Howard to get him.
Maggette, Redd, VC, Artest, and Marion would probably all require Howard (at least) in return.

I consider Miller a little more than just a jump shooter. He is extremely aggressive in getting his shot. But you are correct that isn't exactly a great match with Kidd but it would be an improvement toward the end of games.

Having said all that though, my dream team would be:

Kidd/Maggette/Marion or Artest/Dirk/Damp

I'd be happy with a bench full of Vet Min guys if we had that starting lineup.

[DDansby123]

^ I can see why you'd be happy with that lineup, but I think our defense will still have an incredible weakness with Damp (or anybody big and slow) at the C spot. We need a guy who can come in and defend the basket by blocking shots but is still mobile enough to play the pick-and-roll fairly well, too.

So as good as that lineup is...as good as any lineup is...we'll still have that weakness without an additional change. And I just don't see the pieces to get that guy AND improve our other positions, though the latter is probably more pressing.

[A-Town Connection]

^ I can see why you'd be happy with that lineup, but I think our defense will still have an incredible weakness with Damp (or anybody big and slow) at the C spot. We need a guy who can come in and defend the basket by blocking shots but is still mobile enough to play the pick-and-roll fairly well, too.

So as good as that lineup is...as good as any lineup is...we'll still have that weakness without an additional change. And I just don't see the pieces to get that guy AND improve our other positions, though the latter is probably more pressing.

Agreed. But who is available with that....trade??? idk.....MLE...Diop...we missed him, but is he all we need at center with damp.

[Teffer10]

^ I can see why you'd be happy with that lineup, but I think our defense will still have an incredible weakness with Damp (or anybody big and slow) at the C spot. We need a guy who can come in and defend the basket by blocking shots but is still mobile enough to play the pick-and-roll fairly well, too.

So as good as that lineup is...as good as any lineup is...we'll still have that weakness without an additional change. And I just don't see the pieces to get that guy AND improve our other positions, though the latter is probably more pressing.

That is why rebuilding is the most logical thing to do imo.
If we were to get lucky enough to net a lineup like I suggested with several trades, we would have nothing left to get a center. We could trade Damp but I have no idea what we could get back...perhaps Camby would be a good fit for this team. Then sign Diop with part of MLE.

Since this team will definitely go the retooling route, I could live with that starting 5 and at a least have some optimistic outlook for next season (not much though). Kidd, Marion, and Maggette would be fun to watch.

I still think of Dirk and Kidd as oil and water.

[Teffer10]

^ I can see why you'd be happy with that lineup, but I think our defense will still have an incredible weakness with Damp (or anybody big and slow) at the C spot. We need a guy who can come in and defend the basket by blocking shots but is still mobile enough to play the pick-and-roll fairly well, too.

So as good as that lineup is...as good as any lineup is...we'll still have that weakness without an additional change. And I just don't see the pieces to get that guy AND improve our other positions, though the latter is probably more pressing.

I think the Mavs should somehow attempt to get the 13th pick from Portland and take a chance on McGee if he is available.
He looks like he has potential to be an Amare/Dwight Howard type of player someday.
Maybe trade Bass for that pick. If McGee isn't available then take Arthur if he is available.

[DDansby123]

Since this team will definitely go the retooling route, I could live with that starting 5 and at a least have some optimistic outlook for next season (not much though). Kidd, Marion, and Maggette would be fun to watch.

Understandable.

I still think of Dirk and Kidd as oil and water.

I don't see it that way at all. I think Kidd is best in transition, and Dirk, IMO, has always favored the run-and-gun style over the traditional half-court stuff. He and Kidd, in mindset and style preference, are pretty similar, I think.


Ironically, some argued that Kidd had to have athletic guys around him to be successful, but I think it's Dirk's presence that forces that necessity upon this team. We need long, athletic guys around Dirk who are also mentally and physically tough (not necessarily strong, but tough).

If we're retooling this offseason, I think we need to take JET, Stack, Josh, and Bass and turn them into a starting SG, starting SF, and starting C who fit the description above. Unfortunately, among that group, there would also have to be a second and third scoring option...unless you can get your third scoring option with the MLE.

And then we'd have to find a bench.

And all the contracts would have to expire in or before 2011.

This'll be tough.

[Pointguard01]

If we're retooling this offseason, I think we need to take JET, Stack, Josh, and Bass and turn them into a starting SG, starting SF, and starting C who fit the description above. Unfortunately, among that group, there would also have to be a second and third scoring option...unless you can get your third scoring option with the MLE.

One guy that I would like to get and wouldnt mind starting at SG is Ricky Davis. I dont think Miami will want to sign him longterm because they want cap space next year, so we could look to use out entire MLE on him. He is coming off a down year with 13ppg, 4rpg, 3apg, but he could be a very capable 3rd/4th option. And possible available with the MLE I'd have to think. He turns 29 in September, so not too old.

I dont think Terry is very moveable. Honestly, I would just keep him on the bench and make him the full time 6th man.

Trade Howard, Bass, & Stack and try and get that starting SF/C and you have....

G- Kidd (34) / Terry (14)
G- Davis (32) / Terry (16)
F- ______ (36) /George (12)
F- Dirk (36) / ______ (12)
C- _____ (24) / Damp (24)

Hopefully we are targeting a starting center that is atheltic (I guess thats the whole point) who can also play some of the backup PF as well. And then you can have Malik Allen as a 3rd string PF and resign George who can also play PF at times. We'd still have Eddie Jones who can give up minutes at times too. The depth isnt a problem to me, finding a way to turn Howard/Stack/Bass into a starting SF 2nd option and an atheltic center is.

I honestly dont know what center to go after? Maybe a 3 way with Dallas getting Camby, but you'd have to find a team that isnt trying to win now and doesnt want Camby, something that Denver wants/needs, and that team would be interested in Stack/Bass package.

Howard for an 2nd option? Maybe Corey Maggette in a 3-way trade? But I dont know if he's any better than Howard?

[Teffer10]

If we're retooling this offseason, I think we need to take JET, Stack, Josh, and Bass and turn them into a starting SG, starting SF, and starting C who fit the description above. Unfortunately, among that group, there would also have to be a second and third scoring option...unless you can get your third scoring option with the MLE.

One guy that I would like to get and wouldnt mind starting at SG is Ricky Davis. I dont think Miami will want to sign him longterm because they want cap space next year, so we could look to use out entire MLE on him. He is coming off a down year with 13ppg, 4rpg, 3apg, but he could be a very capable 3rd/4th option. And possible available with the MLE I'd have to think. He turns 29 in September, so not too old.

I dont think Terry is very moveable. Honestly, I would just keep him on the bench and make him the full time 6th man.

Trade Howard, Bass, & Stack and try and get that starting SF/C and you have....

G- Kidd (34) / Terry (14)
G- Davis (32) / Terry (16)
F- ______ (36) /George (12)
F- Dirk (36) / ______ (12)
C- _____ (24) / Damp (24)

Hopefully we are targeting a starting center that is atheltic (I guess thats the whole point) who can also play some of the backup PF as well. And then you can have Malik Allen as a 3rd string PF and resign George who can also play PF at times. We'd still have Eddie Jones who can give up minutes at times too. The depth isnt a problem to me, finding a way to turn Howard/Stack/Bass into a starting SF 2nd option and an atheltic center is.

I honestly dont know what center to go after? Maybe a 3 way with Dallas getting Camby, but you'd have to find a team that isnt trying to win now and doesnt want Camby, something that Denver wants/needs, and that team would be interested in Stack/Bass package.

Howard for an 2nd option? Maybe Corey Maggette in a 3-way trade? But I dont know if he's any better than Howard?

I'd be okay with Davis as a 3rd option. However, if Terry is playing 30 minutes a game, we will be in deep trouble. I do agree that Terry will be virually impossible to move but I hope the Mavs can make some type of lateral move (talent wise) to get a shorter contract.

Howard/Damp for Marion/Blount ???

Then trade Stack, Barea, and Bass for Maggette???

Then sign Lorenzen Wright and Diop for MLE.

Kidd/Terry
Maggette/Wright/Jones
Marion/George/R. Terry
Dirk/Wright
Diop/Blount

[Pointguard01]

I think Jason Terry is fine as a starting PG, but I'd rather have him more as a 4th option (even though he's paid more than that). Kinda like we was his first year in Dallas when he was 13 PPG, 5.5 APG and shot 50% from the field. Even getting Terry to share that role as a 3rd option with a guy liek Ricky Davis (or anyone else) would be fine.

My biggest thing is that I dont think Jason Kidd fits here. Terry is fine for a Mavs PG centered around Dirk Nowitzki. Its just we need to find the right blend of SG, SF & C to put around them. I dont think a guy like Kidd would gets others involved, but doesnt score fits this team. I saw him hurting the offense as much as he helped it. Now maybe that was partly due to Avery and his system, but still, I fear it might just be Kidd doesnt mess well. Terry is fine getting 30 minutes or so at PG in my opinion as long as we have another guy who can consistently give up offense.

[Teffer10]

I think Jason Terry is fine as a starting PG, but I'd rather have him more as a 4th option (even though he's paid more than that). Kinda like we was his first year in Dallas when he was 13 PPG, 5.5 APG and shot 50% from the field. Even getting Terry to share that role as a 3rd option with a guy liek Ricky Davis (or anyone else) would be fine.

My biggest thing is that I dont think Jason Kidd fits here. Terry is fine for a Mavs PG centered around Dirk Nowitzki. Its just we need to find the right blend of SG, SF & C to put around them. I dont think a guy like Kidd would gets others involved, but doesnt score fits this team. I saw him hurting the offense as much as he helped it. Now maybe that was partly due to Avery and his system, but still, I fear it might just be Kidd doesnt mess well. Terry is fine getting 30 minutes or so at PG in my opinion as long as we have another guy who can consistently give up offense.

Thats why I mentioned to DDans that Kidd and Dirk are like oil and water imo. Either get the right pieces around Dirk or the right pieces around Kidd.

I think Dirk needs a lot of guys around him who can create for themselves and get to the basket. Guys like Kobe, LJ, Wade, etc... Terry would be fine as PG with SGs like them and I wouldn't mind him playing 30+min in that situation.
Kidd needs high-flying athletes who love to play without the ball and above the rim to be at his best. This team has nobody like that so I agree that Kidd is not a good fit.

That is why I suggested Maggette and Marion because they would both fit with Kidd and Dirk would be a great outlet and scoring option in more of a motion type offense/game. Davis would also be a good fit with Kidd.

I just hope they do something to get rid of all these slow one dimensional players on this team. I just want some hope as a Mavs fan but this group isn't going to cut it.