Trade for Second Pick

[pillwenney]

I think defense is definitely the kind of thing where you have to look at potential. Really, with all of the bigs that we're looking at, none of them are currently stand out defenders except for probably Arthur (and even he's quite foul-prone). MgGee has been a great shotblocker at his level, but both him and Speights are known for being poor over all defenders right now.

So with that in mind, I would at least be very interested in a Beasley/Hawes front court going forward. I think that, at the very least, it would be worth trying out.

But I think that this is all moot because I can't see Miami doing any of these deals. A Wade/Beasley combo is just going to be too good.

[dozencousins]

We are very unlikely going to have enough to aquire the 2nd pick in the draft unless we give up our best young stars period . !

The only potential young talent we have that i would add into a trade scenerio is Douby

I for sure would not give up k.martin i would give up Garcia but not much more and i would not give up Hawes at this point it is not to say Rose or Beasley are not worth more but the point is not alot more i will not be willing to mortgage our future behind 1 potential stud player !
Look at Lebron he cant win a championship alone neither he likely will soon one day but like Micheal Jordan Lebron cant do it alone and neither will Beasley or Rose !

I doubt anyone will want MILLER,MOORE,REEF OR K9 for a High pick and i doubt we can get a High pick for ARTEST alone !

this is highly unlikely to happen but as long as we dont give away the farm so to speak i will for sure support it !

[SacTown Kings]

How is Beasley / Hawes not a winning combo? I think Hawes developed well and played better than expected last year especially defensively. Beasley is an incredible athlete, very good weakside shotblocker and with his athleticism can be a great defender if he commits to it.

Neither are going to be a quality or better defensive player. Thus as a tandem won't be enough defensively for what a contending team needs, down the line. Which is why team's rebuild or develop, to have a good chance to win a championship.

Weak-side shotblocking doesn't make a big man a notable defensive player, it makes him an effective weak-side shotblocker.

Both are offensively-biased players also, and won't make for a balanced type of front-court.

Beasley's not a traditional kind of power foward, also. He's more like a bigger Carmelo Anthony.

I also question Beasley's defensive focus, regardless of how good he'll be defensively - is he still going to try and be smart on defense, if call(s) don't go his way, or is off offensively? Also, regardless of that, how good of a defender in general, mentally and physically, is Beasley going to be? Those questions are there not just because he hasn't played in the NBA yet, but also because of the kind of player he favors to be, and what I've read about him.

I'm not nearly as questionable with Hawes defensive focus, based on what I've read and seen of him already. As well as being a convential big man, with his overall size situation.

Also, there's just the vibe I get from Beasley, and that may well stay present to an extent later on. Which is basically "highly talented, athletic score-first player, but isn't going to be too much defensively, and has a questionable defensive mentality".

Specifically with Beasley, will he learn to be a relatively disciplined defender, in the way of not relying too much on his athleticism/shotblocking, knowing when to go for a block and when not to? Because consistently going for blocks, whether it's on your man, or helping, can and will lead to being out of position for rebounds, picking up unecessary fouls, and at times being beat because of gambling.

That also ties in with Beasley's defensive focus question, and not being known for his defensive play as a prospect.

I can just tell by Beasley's style and make-up as a player, he's probably not going to be a significant defensive player. And I kind of doubt his defensive mind-set being right.

He's just not really a true-type of "big man", which is good in ways and not so good in others.

Thus, this is why I said he'll need a few players around him up front who will legitimately complement him. Miami will no doubt have those pieces, and more.

Anyway, sooner or later, this team is going to need a big man next to Hawes who will be that stand-out defender for us. To complement Hawes (who will be decent defensively), and combine for a strong defensive situation at PF/C.

Open question: When you see Beasley, and you think about him at times - do you think "Yeah, he's going to be one of the better defensive PFs in the league in the future"?

Doesn't mean he can't turn out like that as a defender, but just overall, I lean to that not happening. I'd be pleasantly surprised.

That probably won't be a top expectation for Miami, because of the other players they're going to have. But moreso based on relating to us hypothetically, and individually living up to being a well-rounded player.

Even if Beasley turns out to be ok him and Hawes would still make a good duo. For instance, take Webber and Divac. That duo led us to game 7 of the WCF's, not too bad if you ask me. And Beasley will be a better defender than Webber, I'd bet my house on it, and Hawes will probably be a better defender than Divac. I think you are getting too hung up on this false notion of Beasley's defense, especially when he hasn't even played. When you have scoring, athleticism, and shot blocking paired with a 7 footer than can pass in the high post and hit 3 pointers you looked past someone not being a defensive stud.

Not like this matters anyways no way we are getting the #2 pick.

[a-rod]

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Even if Beasley turns out to be ok him and Hawes would still make a good duo. For instance, take Webber and Divac. That duo led us to game 7 of the WCF's, not too bad if you ask me. And Beasley will be a better defender than Webber, I'd bet my house on it, and Hawes will probably be a better defender than Divac. I think you are getting too hung up on this false notion of Beasley's defense, especially when he hasn't even played. When you have scoring, athleticism, and shot blocking paired with a 7 footer than can pass in the high post and hit 3 pointers you looked past someone not being a defensive stud.

Not like this matters anyways no way we are getting the #2 pick.

I Always Wanted To Own A House In USA, Seems Like Its Gonna Happen Soon.

[BMiller52]

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I Always Wanted To Own A House In USA, Seems Like Its Gonna Happen Soon.

For real? That's cool dude.

[a-rod]

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Beasley will be a better defender than Webber, I'd bet my house on it, and Hawes will probably be a better defender than Divac.

YEAH RIGHT

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For real? That's cool dude.

no that was a joke.

[BMiller52]

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no that was a joke.

Ah I see, well anyway if you wanted to you probably could considering everyone's losing their houses and the prices are dropping.

[Ballings7]

Even if Beasley turns out to be ok him and Hawes would still make a good duo. For instance, take Webber and Divac. That duo led us to game 7 of the WCF's, not too bad if you ask me. And Beasley will be a better defender than Webber, I'd bet my house on it, and Hawes will probably be a better defender than Divac. I think you are getting too hung up on this false notion of Beasley's defense, especially when he hasn't even played. When you have scoring, athleticism, and shot blocking paired with a 7 footer than can pass in the high post and hit 3 pointers you looked past someone not being a defensive stud.

Well, like I said in part of my first post, they'd absolutely be talented and effective for what they are (and what kind of big foward Beasley most likely will be) - but not really built to go far in the playoffs, because of the lack of a real defensive presence up front. I don't quite think they'd be consistent and good enough together in defending the basket.

Eventually a change would need to be made to get better defensively, and more balanced as a team.

[SacKingZZZ]

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Ah I see, well anyway if you wanted to you probably could considering everyone's losing their houses and the prices are dropping.

Yeah, but good luck on getting a loan.

[Smills91]

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Ah I see, well anyway if you wanted to you probably could considering everyone's losing their houses and the prices are dropping.

Just curious BMiller, how many people do you ACTUALLY know that have lost their homes recently in the past year or so?

I really have yet to meet one person that I actually know. The majority of the foreclosures that I've been privvy to are primarily from investment type properties that people were using to land a cash cow.

[BMiller52]

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Just curious BMiller, how many people do you ACTUALLY know that have lost their homes recently in the past year or so?

I really have yet to meet one person that I actually know. The majority of the foreclosures that I've been privvy to are primarily from investment type properties that people were using to land a cash cow.

Ehh I don't live in an expensive neighborhood personally so nobody that lives by me but I have an aunt that lived in a fairly expensive area in Sac and plenty of people lost their homes there. She divorced her husband so she doesn't live there anymore but it was an area with a ton of new houses, like 2 years ago it was full and then about 6 months ago the last time I was there, there was a ton of houses for sale and that had been foreclosed or whatever. It was mainly families that lived there too so that's kinda sad.

[Smills91]

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Ehh I don't live in an expensive neighborhood personally so nobody that lives by me but I have an aunt that lived in a fairly expensive area in Sac and plenty of people lost their homes there. She divorced her husband so she doesn't live there anymore but it was an area with a ton of new houses, like 2 years ago it was full and then about 6 months ago the last time I was there, there was a ton of houses for sale and that had been foreclosed or whatever. It was mainly families that lived there too so that's kinda sad.

And most likely those people made choices to get the most expensive home they could afford and probably in 3 or 5 year ARMS. Who's at fault? Well, primarily its families who made poor decision to overextend themselves, secondarily it's lenders that approved sub-prime loans and to others who probably shouldn't have been qualified. Personally I think the housing markets failures is cyclical phenomena and it's been WAY overhyped due to 2008 being an election year. I'll bet money that you'll hear reports in february 2009 and moving forward that the housing markets has improved and yada yada yada, unless of course McCain's put into office.

[SacTown Kings]

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I Always Wanted To Own A House In USA, Seems Like Its Gonna Happen Soon.

Are you trying to say Beasley will not be a better defender than Webber? Webber was one of the worst defensive power forwards in the league. Webber was more of a spectator than a participant when it came to defense. I think it is safe to say nearly any power forward will be better than Webber when it comes to defense. Even if Beasley turns out to be a bad defender at least he can block shots, webber couldn't even do that.

[pillwenney]

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Are you trying to say Beasley will not be a better defender than Webber? Webber was one of the worst defensive power forwards in the league. Webber was more of a spectator than a participant when it came to defense. I think it is safe to say nearly any power forward will be better than Webber when it comes to defense. Even if Beasley turns out to be a bad defender at least he can block shots, webber couldn't even do that.

That's absurd. Chris was one of the most underrated defenders ever. And he did block and bother shots frequently. He and Vlade were big parts of why our teams from 01-03 were fine defensive teams.

[a-rod]

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Are you trying to say Beasley will not be a better defender than Webber? Webber was one of the worst defensive power forwards in the league. Webber was more of a spectator than a participant when it came to defense. I think it is safe to say nearly any power forward will be better than Webber when it comes to defense. Even if Beasley turns out to be a bad defender at least he can block shots, webber couldn't even do that.

Nothing could be further from the truth, as Webber has better blend of size, athleticism and length (wingspan) which makes him better defender, on the other hand Beasley is going to be a huge liability on defense at the next level if he plays PF or SF.

at least he can block shots, webber couldn't even do that.

Blocks Per Game - 1999-2000

[SacTown Kings]

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That's absurd. Chris was one of the most underrated defenders ever. And he did block and bother shots frequently. He and Vlade were big parts of why our teams from 01-03 were fine defensive teams.

Sorry but it's not absurd it is the truth. Take off the goggles. Webber was one of the softest power forwards in the league on defense. I do agree that him and Vlade were a big reason for our success, which is why I brought up that point to Ballings (neither were very good defenders yet we were still competitive). However, it was not because of their defense it was because of their offense, that is how we won. Nobody could stop us with Webber and Divac runiing the Princeton O.

[SacTown Kings]

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Blocks Per Game - 1999-2000

(picture)

Sorry but 1.7 is not very good for a guy with Webber's "athleticism and wingspan", considering the amount of minutes he played. If you go to 82games.com you will see that even in Webber's best years his block shots rating was around 3.4 or 3.7 something like that. Most of the other guys you named are anywhere between 6.5 to 9, waaayyy better than Webber.

[BMiller52]

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Are you trying to say Beasley will not be a better defender than Webber? Webber was one of the worst defensive power forwards in the league. Webber was more of a spectator than a participant when it came to defense. I think it is safe to say nearly any power forward will be better than Webber when it comes to defense. Even if Beasley turns out to be a bad defender at least he can block shots, webber couldn't even do that.

Wow way too much hate on Webber. Yeah he didn't block shots like TD or KG exactly, but he was still pretty damn good up until the knee injury. And if you watched the games of the WCF vs LA(I have 2 on my computer I think, and a couple other games with him in them) you'd see he did a decent job defending Shaq at times(better than Vlade actually).

[SacKingZZZ]

Blocking shots is a very overrated stat. It's not how many shots you block, it's about how many you alter and/or challenge. I always bring up the Ostertag thing. Numerically he wasn't a legendary shot blocker but the guy altered more shots in his minutes than even some great shotblockers ever did.

[Ballings7]

I think I'd take Vlade/Webber over Hawes/Beasley defensively. Obviously using a gathering of outlook for the latter.