What is difference between elite and top tier SG?

[Hood President]

what is the difference between elite and top tier? i chose the SG postion because...i just felt like it.

a elite shooting guard to me is someone who averages 20 points and getting his teammates involved and not being selfish while being double team nightly. elite does not mean you have to have a long impresive resime.....if your not doubled 90% percent of the games then your not elite.

top tier is someone who has "body of work" and has a long impressive resime with hardly any flaws like kobe(maybe wade)

for example: joe johnson is elite SG right? yes. is he top tier? not even close. hes not even on the same universe as kobe BUT he is elite.

kobe
Tmac
Johnson
Ai
Carter
Wade
Arenas

all these SG in my opinion are elite but not all are top tier with the exception of kobe(maybe wade). and i dont like carter or ai that much. but they are elite

if you disagree with me then go ahead bring the meat.

whats your definition of both?

[T-Spot]

First name has to be Kobe.

[TMACFORMVP]

It's probably a SG that can dominate both ends of the floor both offensively and defensively but also contribute in other facets of the game if their shot is not falling. Some one that can just control the flow of the game at all times.

Impact on the game is always greater than the stats IMO.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Kobe, Wade, Tmac...maybe AI

[dockingsched]

maybe ai? definitely not ai

u let ai in, u let a lot of people in.

[CBS7]

Shoot, get to the line, create for others, and defend at least decently.

[SportsFan215]

I think you might have to put Joe Johnson in that group now.

[kooldude]

Kobe and Wade.

I have Manu almost close to elite, but at very good.

[The_Believer]

^^^ No, 1 quarter doen't make you elite. If so, Monta is due to his 1 month stretch, which is much longer than a quarter/a series. Although, JJ has impressed me a lot from his performance vs. BOS.

[dockingsched]

I think you might have to put Joe Johnson in that group now.

not a chance he's on the same level as kobe, wade, tmac.

[AIfan3]

what qualifies a SG as elite. do he have to atleast average 20 points per game. the reason i bring this up because lots of folks say ginobili is not a elite SG(and i agree). what bench benchmark do a SG have to reach to be considered elite.

please explain.

Basically a SG that's head and heels over most other SG's in the league.. Meaning top 5.

Kobe, T-mac ( Is he really a SG?), Wade, AI (hate all you want), VC

[dockingsched]

elite means that you are at the very top level. ai and vince carter are clearly not on the same level as kobe, tmac, and wade. tmac might not even be on that level.

[JoshB914]

TMac is not on the same level as Wade, he's not in the same universe as Kobe.

[Baller 24]

TMac is not on the same level as Wade, he's not in the same universe as Kobe.

Before his shoulder injury and shooting percentages dropped the last month of the year, he would of been. Kobe is on a whole different level than Wade, but it can be argued that McGrady and Wade can be on the same level. McGrady turns the ball over very less, and is a better play maker then any of those guys listed. His defense is decent, nothing to great, but its not bad at all, probably behind Wade in that department, but obviously McGrady also has height advantage (his wingspan is close to 6'11). And obviously in his worst NBA season he makes the all NBA third team, and gets top 10 in MVP voting, while also leading his team to 50+win season without Yao, twice. He is probably up their, but not nearly on the same level as Kobe. I don't think anyone is right now in the shooting guard department. If anything it goes like this:
Kobe












Wade
Tmac



AI
Vince

[UDRIH14]

lol at JJ being elite class

manu torches him every h2h

[Malinhion]

TarMac isn't on the same level as Wade. He's not even past AI. I don't know why people are so quick to put AI below McGrady when Iverson has had better numbers for a longer time, and has more career accolades and general success.

It's silly to do this for just shooting guards, though. Just include all swingmen and combo guards. The distinction will flesh out more clearly. Here is my list (in order after this season):

Top Tier (Elite): Kobe (1), LeBron (2), Wade (3)
2nd Tier (Elite): Iverson (4), Carmelo (5), McGrady (6), Carter (7), Pierce (8), Johnson (9), Arenas (10)
3rd Tier: Ginobili (11), Butler (12), Allen (13), Hamilton (14), Iguodala (15), Roy (16), Martin (17), Redd (18)
4th Tier: Maggette (19), Richardson (20), Gordon (21), Ellis (22), McCants (23), Mobley (24), Davis (25)

An elite player generally outclasses the rest of the competition on the floor on a nighty basis. An elite player clearly takes his team to the next level, and has demonstrated the ability to do so in the postseason. 3rd tier are great players who aren't ideal 1st options on a championship squad, but would probably make great complements to a franchise player. 4th tier and below are merely cogs in a machine.

[ambiglight]

Elite is just comprised of the best off guards in the league regardless of what their specialty may be. Lots of guys qualify in that case.
Top Tier is comprised of the group of off guards overall with regards to shooting, playing off the ball, passing, scoring, defense and decision-making.

The top tier has AI, Kobe, Manu, Vince, and McGrady. The only one that has distinguished himself from the others clearly is Kobe and some of that may be due to having the good fortune to play with a great organization that is well managed and committed to putting a winning product on the floor. AI, Manu, Vince, and McGrady are all elite transcendent players with extensive individual resumes but have one flaw or another that has kept them from demanding universal respect. In truth, the off guard position is not a make or break position. So its very easy to be a top tier shooting guard yet not be a championship player. As such I think folks are overly critical of the AIs, Carters, and McGradys. As much as kobe is loved he's still very much in the same top tier as those other players individually.

[ambiglight]

TarMac isn't on the same level as Wade. He's not even past AI. I don't know why people are so quick to put AI below McGrady when Iverson has had better numbers for a longer time, and has more career accolades and general success.

It's silly to do this for just shooting guards, though. Just include all swingmen and combo guards. The distinction will flesh out more clearly. Here is my list (in order after this season):

Top Tier (Elite): Kobe (1), LeBron (2), Wade (3)
2nd Tier (Elite): Iverson (4), Carmelo (5), McGrady (6), Carter (7), Pierce (8), Johnson (9), Arenas (10)
3rd Tier: Ginobili (11), Butler (12), Allen (13), Hamilton (14), Iguodala (15), Roy (16), Martin (17), Redd (18)
4th Tier: Maggette (19), Richardson (20), Gordon (21), Ellis (22), McCants (23), Mobley (24), Davis (25)

An elite player generally outclasses the rest of the competition on the floor on a nighty basis. An elite player clearly takes his team to the next level, and has demonstrated the ability to do so in the postseason. 3rd tier are great players who aren't ideal 1st options on a championship squad, but would probably make great complements to a franchise player. 4th tier and below are merely cogs in a machine.

are u sure wade "outclasses" the rest of the competition on a regular basis? durability should factor into this as well. i do like your tier system for the most part though

[Malinhion]

are u sure wade "outclasses" the rest of the competition on a regular basis? durability should factor into this as well. i do like your tier system for the most part though

Yes.

[Baller 24]

TarMac isn't on the same level as Wade. He's not even past AI. I don't know why people are so quick to put AI below McGrady when Iverson has had better numbers for a longer time, and has more career accolades and general success.

It's silly to do this for just shooting guards, though. Just include all swingmen and combo guards. The distinction will flesh out more clearly. Here is my list (in order after this season):

Top Tier (Elite): Kobe (1), LeBron (2), Wade (3)
2nd Tier (Elite): Iverson (4), Carmelo (5), McGrady (6), Carter (7), Pierce (8), Johnson (9), Arenas (10)
3rd Tier: Ginobili (11), Butler (12), Allen (13), Hamilton (14), Iguodala (15), Roy (16), Martin (17), Redd (18)
4th Tier: Maggette (19), Richardson (20), Gordon (21), Ellis (22), McCants (23), Mobley (24), Davis (25)

An elite player generally outclasses the rest of the competition on the floor on a nighty basis. An elite player clearly takes his team to the next level, and has demonstrated the ability to do so in the postseason. 3rd tier are great players who aren't ideal 1st options on a championship squad, but would probably make great complements to a franchise player. 4th tier and below are merely cogs in a machine.

I can also see Wade and Kobe elite yes, Tmac 2nd tier makes sense, I can understand AI going ahead of Tmac because of his statistics, but Melo? I think thats pushing it, Melo isn't even a SG, or has led his team to any success, if anything Denver is playing better with AI then Melo, from what I've seen based on statistics, but obviously the Nuggets aren't going to move Melo over AI due to his age. But aside from the stats Melo puts up, he still has an inability to win with AI.