ROSE -WADE...how would this work?

[Riled Up]

If the Miami Heat end up with Derrick Rose how does this work? Dwyane Wade is most effective when he is dominating the ball in a halfcourt set. Taking players off the dribble and penetrating have proven to be his greatest strengths.

While I think Rose is an immensely talented prospect I don't know that he best fits playing next to Wade. None of the dominant PGs everyone is raving about (CP3, D. Williams, Baron Davis, Nash, etc.) have a swing player playing next to them who dominates the ball in the halfcourt set, thus taking the ball out of their hands. Wouldn't it limit their effectiveness if they were playing next to a Wade or Kobe type player?

How would this work, is Wade going to adapt and become more of shooter or slasher without the ball? Is Rose going to be asked to bring the ball up and spot up or get out of the way? WHile I am oversimplifying to a certain extent, I don't think this will be without its complications/adjustments, significant ones at that........................Kidd/Carter are the only ones who seem to follow the model we would have and their success was limited.

[magicfan4life05]

FWIW

Prashant (Dallas, TX): Why do the Heat want Mayo so much, I feel he is very overrated and either Beasley or Rose is a better fit?

SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:46 PM ET ) I think Mayo is developing a relationship with Dwyane Wade. That's part of it. Two, I actually think he's a little under rated as a player right now. He'd be a perfect fit in the backcourt with Wade because of his shooting and ability to run the offense. Finally, Mayo may be the most NBA ready player in the draft -- think Brandon Roy. Those are all positives for Miami if they go with Mayo. I'm not saying he's better than Beasley or Rose, but I think he's in the same conversation.

[unowen85]

So you wouldn't be asking the same question if the Heat were to draft Beasley?

[Riled Up]

So you wouldn't be asking the same question if the Heat were to draft Beasley?

Not at all, Beasley is a PF. The Heat don't have an inside presence for Wade to feed off of. Beasley could provide that natural presence that is missing..........right? On top of that, the Heat is very weak at PF and C and could use a significant upgrade there. Assuming Marion is a SF, the Heat do not have a PF or C on their roster who could start for a playoff caliber team unless there was a dominant player playing next to them.

I am not saying that Beasley is a better prospect than Rose but your comment seems odd to me..............

[CoolD]

Are you not that Shaq fan.

Anyhow, it would help Wade tremendously. He will start actually defending players, wouldn't have to worry of creating every play and will have enough energy to play defense. Would help Wade be more dangerous, is like a ultra combo of Manu and Parker, but more athletic.
Wade is at his best being a finisher. When he creates for to long, he ends up with staggering amount of turnovers. Rose is going to help Wade not be so predictable.
Also its going to make Wade, Marion, Haslem real treats in a fastbreak, something the Heat lack.

But the odds are, we will land Beasley, so this is a pipe dream.

[unowen85]

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Not at all, Beasley is a PF. The Heat don't have an inside presence for Wade to feed off of. Beasley could provide that natural presence that is missing..........right? On top of that, the Heat is very weak at PF and C and could use a significant upgrade there. Assuming Marion is a SF, the Heat do not have a PF or C on their roster who could start for a playoff caliber team unless there was a dominant player playing next to them.

I am not saying that Beasley is a better prospect than Rose but your comment seems odd to me..............

I don't think Beasley is going to be the type of inside presence where he sets up down low, gets the ball thrown to him, and then the offense works from the inside out. He's going to start from around the inside of the three point line with the ball, and then dribble past his defender using his first step and look to score or pass to the open man, just like Rose and Wade would do.

[Riled Up]

The Parker-Ginobili comparison is interesting and would be something to strive for, your comments about Wade's turnovers are valid but his halfcourt offense has been far better than his finishing although he is obviously good at both. Plus, it should be noted, that Wade's turnovers only became a significant issue when his injuries increased and his supporting cast got worse. It will be interesting to see such an athletic backcourt if we get Rose.

Good analysis, thanks for the response

[Riled Up]

-= original quote snipped =-



I don't think Beasley is going to be the type of inside presence where he sets up down low, gets the ball thrown to him, and then the offense works from the inside out. He's going to start from around the inside of the three point line with the ball, and then dribble past his defender using his first step and look to score or pass to the open man, just like Rose and Wade would do.

Good points but I think Beasley does have a strong back to the basket game as well and just to clarify, I like Rose and would be excited to see him in our starting backcourt, I just noticed that some of the more exciting PGs in the game today like to control the ball in all sets and are rarely asked to let someone else be the primary ball handler in the half court set. Should be interesting..................

[unowen85]

I think my point was just that Wade has never played with anybody like Rose or Beasley, so I'm eager to find out how he's going to play with whoever is drafted.

Odom was kind of like Beasley, but less of a scorer, and when he was here, Wade wasn't Wade yet.

[Lane1974]

either way, the talent dropoff is too much between who is left at 2 and who else we'd consider taking, so if CHI takes Beez, we're taking Rose. If we traded Rose, you bet your bottom dollar Riley would demand a legit all NBAer back, not a medium draft pick and Randy Foye or Chrix Wilcox or something like that.

[SmushedPennies]

Notice that none of those 'elite' PGs are still playing. One thing I noticed while watching the Hornets play was their lack of a strong secondary ball-handler/penetrator was a major crutch for them at times (Pargo was played beside Paul quite a bit but always seemed to leave something to be desired), and quite possibly cost them their season. If you look at who is left you'll notice a little trend: Rondo/Pierce, Billups/Prince, Parker/Ginobili, and Fischer/Bryant. Yes, all of those teams have a fairly dominant 4 (or 5) man, but they also have two reliable penetrator-playmakers. I think we should all have learned this year that one man can't do it all by himself. Its too easy to trap the main ball-handler in a half court and make someone else beat you. We've seen it happen to Wade, and when Chris Quinn is your next option on the floor, trouble ensues. With Wade-Rose co-running this team, there would be close to no ball-handling issues.

Obviously that line-up is still a work in progress as it needs a serviceable center, a post-presence, and a shooter.

[SJ2100]

Rose would complement Wade by allowing Wade to conserve energy for the things he does best:
1. He would bring up the ball and be the primary ball handler
2. He would be asked to defend the best guard on the other team, and has the size to match up with many 2 guards
3. Limit Wade's TOs by being another playmaker, so that Wade doesn't have to create every time downcourt
4. Run the break and set up the team in the half court
5. Allow Wade to run through screens away from the ball, wouldn't it be nice to not have the Wade Iso or the Wade top of the key pick-and-roll every single play

The Manu-Parker comparison is a good one, except that Rose has better size than Parker, so he could defend 2 guards as well. The other big difference is Manu is a 3-point threat who can knock down open J's created by Parker, so Wade/Rose need to develop a more consistent perimeter jumpshot to capitalize on the other person's drive-and-kicks. If they can develop their outside shooting a little more, then there is no reason to think that they will not be the best backcourt in the league for years and years.

[SmushedPennies]

People don't realize that when J-Will was playing well, Wade was running off screens trying to catch the ball near the baseline. He wasn't iso-ing from the key every play like a point.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

If everything goes really good..it could be like the Warriors...

Monta and Baron is one of the best backcourt in the league, they get a lot of fastbreak points too and are efficient(Rose/Wade)...they have Jackson, good defensively and can get 15-18points (Marion), They have Harrington who imo is an average Power Forward (Haslem) .. They have Biedrins and a good bench...we could get a bench with a MLE .we could get a double double center like Biedrins in the future.

Yeah, we could be a 50 win team and an exciting team like the Warriors... i dont know if thats necessarily a good thing though.

[HeatInOhio]

People don't realize that when J-Will was playing well, Wade was running off screens trying to catch the ball near the baseline. He wasn't iso-ing from the key every play like a point.

But because JWill rarely played well, it didn't happen too often.

On a serious note though I agree, I'm also in the Rose camp and have been for a little while. Rose would be like having another Wade to some degree and would present a backcourt nightmare for other teams. I'm tickled we get at least Rose or Beasley and either player will be a tremendous boost to our team. But, if I had a choice I would take Rose.

[SmushedPennies]

Its like knowing in a month you've got a bed-date with Jessica Alba or Vida Guerra. I like.

[Heat3]

Wade's turnover ratio will go down with Rose.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Wade's turnover ratio will go down with Rose.

it would go down with big men that can catch too..or any PG that is not the worst in the league.

[MartyConlonJr]

Rose and Wade have similar games, great dribble penetration.

Now probably one of our most effective plays would be to give Wade the ball and get out of the way, allowing him to break down the defense and create a shot for himself or for a teammate off a double team.

But you can't run that play every time down the floor, because you will absolutely wear Wade out to the point that he can't break down the defense, and he will also be too worn out on defense. Add that when Wade sits, we usually blow our leads because no other player can create for themselves effectively.

So we get Rose, and Wade can drop his minutes down to 36 mpg, with Rose playing 36 mpg as well. Immediately the strain is off Wade because he can rest and Spoelstra can continue to run the same offense with Rose. So the duo can spend 24 mpg playing with one another, and 12 mpg playing as the sole creator. When they are both in the game, they can alternate on dribble penetration, preserving both's energy to allow them to be energised on defense, and when one of them sits, the other can still be effective enough on the floor to preserve a lead with their playmaking alone.

That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[Flash4thewin]

Complicated. It would all depend on if and when either player gets better at the 3pt range and what would the make up of this team be.

Basically we would become the Warriors of the east, fun to watch but......

Also i wondering how many actual fast break points that team could get considering it would be the most undersized team in the league and you need to get a rebound in order to start the fast break.

Just look at how undersized that team would be. All a team would have to do is out rebound us and the fast breaks die. Then consider just about every player would have a negative size advantage on def our defense would be near the bottom. Maybe Pat works his magic and we get size + a post player to go along with Rose and Wade but we dont know that so its complicated to say how they would work out.

pg-Rose 6'4
sg-Wade 6'4
sf/pf-Marion 6'6
pf-UD 6'8