Ray Allen's ECF performance

[LarryBrdismyDad]

Ray Allen's stats vs Detroit:
17.6 ppg
3.3 rpg
2.8 apg
43.1 FG%
40.0 3 Pt Fg%

Game 1:
9 pts on 3 of 10 shooting with 2 ast and 2 rebounds. I would say he played pretty poorly this game considering 3 pts came from the line and on defenesive 3 seconds and technicals and 6 pts came on wide open layups and dunks.

Game 2:
25 pts on 9 of 16 shooting with 2 rebounds and 2 assists. Ray was money this game and played a lot more aggressively then he had in any other playoff game.

Game 3:
14 pts on 5 of 16 shooting with 6 rebounds and 6 assists. I don't care what people say Allen had a good game this game. He might not have shot the ball well but he rebounded and made plays for others. He had a great floor game as someone said on FSN. He also hounded Hamilton into a 2 pt first half which helped us get ahead to a 20 point lead at half.

Game 4:
11 pts 2 of 8 shooting with 2 rebounds and 2 assists. Ray didn't play well in this game but also didn't get many looks as Rondo was horrible and the offense was out of rhythm all night. Not one player played well this game except posey.

Game 5:
29 pts 9 of 15 shooting with 3 rebounds and 2 assists. Allen had his finest postseason performance thus far in this game. He exploded for 16 pts in the 3rd quarter and was 5 of 6 on three pointers. He also hit the biggest shot of the season to put us back up 3 and he hit 2 clutch FTs down the stretch. Prettty good for a guy who had a thread about him yesterday about having one of the biggest playoff choke jobs ever this postseason.

This is why people should reserve harsh judgment until a series is over. Allen might have looked bad at times this series and he was pretty miserable against the Cavs but he has proven that he can come through and that he still is a good player and hes not washed up. I have to admit that I did start a thread about trade ideas for Ray Allen but regardless of whether we win it all or not I think we need to look into that. If we could get a package of JR Smith and Camby for Ray or Ben Gordon and Drew Gooden I think we would still have to atleast think about it.

[SonicYouth34]

Ray Allen's stats vs Detroit:
If we could get a package of JR Smith and Camby for Ray or Ben Gordon and Drew Gooden I think we would still have to atleast think about it.

We traded the 5th pick, Wally and Delonte for Ray and you wanna trade him for that crap

[Truthiracy]

Yuck. Smith & Camby = Garbage
Gordon & Gooden = Burnt Garbage

How many team cancers is that?

[ParticleMan]

I'd take Gordon and Gooden. Collins loves vets. But I don't mind keeping Ray at all. It's funny, for all the crap Ray's taken, one good game and his stats are pretty much back to his season stats.

[LarryBrdismyDad]

-= original quote snipped =-



We traded the 5th pick, Wally and Delonte for Ray and you wanna trade him for that crap

How is that crap? Jr Smith is one of the most athletic players in the NBA and he has really devloped his game. He can go off for 30+ almost any night and he is great at shooting 3's and taking the ball to the rim. He will be an all star level player within 3 years when he develops a midrange game and learns to play better defense. Smith is also only 22 yrs old. He averaged 12 ppg this yr in about 20 mins on 45% shooting. Marcus Camby is still a top tier NBA center. He is always among the league leaders in rebounding and shot blocking. He also has a nice midrange jumper which Perkins doesn't have right now. He is also only 34 yrs old and has atleast 2 to 3 more yrs left at his current level of play.

Ben Gordon is a solid 2 guard and while I think Allen is currently better in another yr or 2 he might not be. Gordon is undersized but can create his own shot and finish at the rim. He also is a pretty good defender. Drew Gooden would be the 2nd best big guy on our team besides KG. Gooden has averaged almost a double double for his career, plays solid defense, and has a good midrange game. He would be a good addition off the bench.

These offers are not crap if you can think of anything better for Ray Allen I would like to hear it.

[SonicYouth34]

Ray is better for the team even if he's in a slump because of the attention he draws and none of those guys can do that.

JR Smith is a nice young player that has bad bb iq, Camby is a terrible defender and can only block shots and is close to the end, Gordon is a undersized chucker who doesn't do anything else and Gooden is good but Perk is better.

I wouldn't trade Ray unless we got Reggie Miller in his prime. But that's not happening, so no dice.

[SuigintouEV]

Jr Smith is one of the most athletic players in the NBA and he has really devloped his game. He can go off for 30+ almost any night and he is great at shooting 3's and taking the ball to the rim. He will be an all star level player within 3 years when he develops a midrange game and learns to play better defense. Smith is also only 22 yrs old. He averaged 12 ppg this yr in about 20 mins on 45% shooting.

Um, he's just an athletic version of a guy like Mo Peterson. His FG% is pretty bad for a guy on a team that runs as much as the nuggets do.

Marcus Camby is still a top tier NBA center. He is always among the league leaders in rebounding and shot blocking. He also has a nice midrange jumper which Perkins doesn't have right now. He is also only 34 yrs old and has atleast 2 to 3 more yrs left at his current level of play.

He's soft, he's not a center, his jump shot is pretty bad regardless (and hideous to watch him shoot, might I add), he just shoots it way more, and his stats are padded playing for a quick-shots team like the nuggets. And at 34 he'd be the oldest player on the roster. He'd also be the worst finisher on the team around the basket.

Ben Gordon is a solid 2 guard and while I think Allen is currently better in another yr or 2 he might not be. Gordon is undersized but can create his own shot and finish at the rim. He also is a pretty good defender. Drew Gooden would be the 2nd best big guy on our team besides KG. Gooden has averaged almost a double double for his career, plays solid defense, and has a good midrange game. He would be a good addition off the bench.

Ben Gordon and Drew Gooden? really? You want a logjam at PF and only Tony Allen to play SG (A guy who can't even get off t he bench for a STRUGGLING ray-ray)? Or do you want Ben Gordon to get posted up by EVERY SG in the entire LEAGUE? He doesn't have Kirk Hinrich to cover for him here.

These offers are not crap if you can think of anything better for Ray Allen I would like to hear it.

The "offers" (since when did anyone actually make them, again?) are pretty **** and make no sense for improving the team immediately, nor is it time to be planning a "rebuld" around mediocre players.

[LarryBrdismyDad]

Ray is better for the team even if he's in a slump because of the attention he draws and none of those guys can do that.

JR Smith is a nice young player that has bad bb iq, Camby is a terrible defender and can only block shots and is close to the end, Gordon is a undersized chucker who doesn't do anything else and Gooden is good but Perk is better.

I wouldn't trade Ray unless we got Reggie Miller in his prime. But that's not happening, so no dice.

I would agree that Smith's Bball IQ, defense, attitude, midrange game, and defense all need to be improved but hes also only 22 yrs old and this can be done with some offseason work. He also can bring some things that Ray Allen can't which are lentgh on defense to alter/block shots, later quickness, and potential to be a lockdown defender. He also takes the ball to the hoop better then Ray and can finish at the rim better then Ray Allen. Allen is a better player right now but in a year or two I highly doubt he will be. The list of SGs who were good after 32 is this: Michael Jordan and Reggie Miller.

Camby doesn't defend? Do you watch basketball? He was the Defensive Player of the Year last year. I suppose you think KG doesn't defend either LOL. Camby is a good post defender and a great weakside defender which he would be here with KG or Perkins out on the floor with him. He is not close to the end at all he averaged 9 ppg, 13 rpg and 3.6 bpg. He has 2 to 3 yrs left at a high level.

You say Gordon is an undersized chucker who doesn't do much else. Well Ray Allen doesn't do much else besides shooting. This was the first season he has ever played defense. I probably wouldn't do the Bulls trade but its not a **** offer at all. Gooden also brings a lot off the bench for us.

I am still waiting for someone to come up with a better offer then these two. The only other offers that are worth it are Ray Allen for Michael Redd but that seems like a longshot or when Allen expires packaging him for Jason Richardson and Nazr Muhammed. Those offers seem realistic at this time though and would probably happen next offseason when Ray is expiring if they ever did happen at all.

[LarryBrdismyDad]

Jr Smith is one of the most athletic players in the NBA and he has really devloped his game. He can go off for 30+ almost any night and he is great at shooting 3's and taking the ball to the rim. He will be an all star level player within 3 years when he develops a midrange game and learns to play better defense. Smith is also only 22 yrs old. He averaged 12 ppg this yr in about 20 mins on 45% shooting.

Um, he's just an athletic version of a guy like Mo Peterson. His FG% is pretty bad for a guy on a team that runs as much as the nuggets do.

Marcus Camby is still a top tier NBA center. He is always among the league leaders in rebounding and shot blocking. He also has a nice midrange jumper which Perkins doesn't have right now. He is also only 34 yrs old and has atleast 2 to 3 more yrs left at his current level of play.

He's soft, he's not a center, his jump shot is pretty bad regardless (and hideous to watch him shoot, might I add), he just shoots it way more, and his stats are padded playing for a quick-shots team like the nuggets. And at 34 he'd be the oldest player on the roster. He'd also be the worst finisher on the team around the basket.

Ben Gordon is a solid 2 guard and while I think Allen is currently better in another yr or 2 he might not be. Gordon is undersized but can create his own shot and finish at the rim. He also is a pretty good defender. Drew Gooden would be the 2nd best big guy on our team besides KG. Gooden has averaged almost a double double for his career, plays solid defense, and has a good midrange game. He would be a good addition off the bench.

Ben Gordon and Drew Gooden? really? You want a logjam at PF and only Tony Allen to play SG (A guy who can't even get off t he bench for a STRUGGLING ray-ray)? Or do you want Ben Gordon to get posted up by EVERY SG in the entire LEAGUE? He doesn't have Kirk Hinrich to cover for him here.

These offers are not crap if you can think of anything better for Ray Allen I would like to hear it.

The "offers" (since when did anyone actually make them, again?) are pretty **** and make no sense for improving the team immediately, nor is it time to be planning a "rebuld" around mediocre players.

Smith does not have bad Fg%'s at all. He shot 46% this seasn from the field and shot 40% from 3. He averaged 12 ppg in 19 mins which is ridiculous with good shooting numbers as well.

Camby also is a center hes 7 feet tall LOL. I agree that his stats are infated because of the pace that the Nuggets play at but he is still a great shotblocker and would probably average 8 rpg here and give us a great 3 man big man rotation with Perkins and KG. He wouldn't get hurt here because we could limit his minutes. Camby also is not a bad finisher around the hoop. If you check his stats on 82games.com he hits 56% close to the hoop.

Once again if you can think of something better thats realistic I would love to here it. I know people don't want to trade our top players but it is something to think about as they get older. Look what happened when we held on to Bird and Mchale too long. Ainge knows this and mentioned in SI at the beginning of the yr. He told Red to trade them in the late 80s but Red didn't listen because he was a loyal guy. Imagine what we could have got for them? Instead we stayed mediocre and then awful for awhile. I don't want to see that happen again.

[SonicYouth34]

Camby doesn't defend? Do you watch basketball? He was the Defensive Player of the Year last year. I suppose you think KG doesn't defend either LOL. Camby is a good post defender and a great weakside defender which he would be here with KG or Perkins out on the floor with him. He is not close to the end at all he averaged 9 ppg, 13 rpg and 3.6 bpg. He has 2 to 3 yrs left at a high level.

First off I've haven't missed a C's game in 7 years.

Second go over to the Denver board and say that, he's awful and soft. (Check the link below.) KG does defend, he makes it extremely hard for the player he's guarding to score and makes everyone around him a better defender. Plus Camby doesn't fit, KG needs a banger like Perk next to him.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=793374

You say Gordon is an undersized chucker who doesn't do much else. Well Ray Allen doesn't do much else besides shooting. This was the first season he has ever played defense. I probably wouldn't do the Bulls trade but its not a **** offer at all. Gooden also brings a lot off the bench for us.

Ray does what Gordon does but 10x better. Ray also is big and long enough that he doesn't get easily posted up and get his PG (Hinrich for Gordon) in foul trouble every game because he can't guard anyone over 6-2. Ray holds his own on the defensive end, ask Hamilton after game 3.

Gooden brings what we already have and is redundant. Also who'd start at the 2? TA? I love TA but you can't wan a championship with him, as he is, as the starter.

I am still waiting for someone to come up with a better offer then these two. The only other offers that are worth it are Ray Allen for Michael Redd but that seems like a longshot or when Allen expires packaging him for Jason Richardson and Nazr Muhammed. Those offers seem realistic at this time though and would probably happen next offseason when Ray is expiring if they ever did happen at all.

Why would we do that????? We are in the ECF on the brink of a Lakers/Celtics showdown. Enjoy the show, I am. I've been waiting for this for 14 years.

[GuyClinch]

Camby is way better then you guys are giving him credit for. The worst finisher on the team? LMAO. Dude Perkins can't get off the ground. Camby would finish all those plays with DUNKS.

Pete

[LarryBrdismyDad]

I don't care what people on the Denver board say. I have seen Camby play enough to know he is not soft and that he does play defense. You still haven't backed up your statements that he doesn't play defense and can't finish at the rim yet he was DPOY in 2007 and he finsihed inside at a 56% clip this yr. Also, he would be a great fit next to Perk and KG as a weakside shotblocker. I would bring him off the bench and have him swatting **** and dunking at the rim all game.

[SuigintouEV]

I don't care what people on the Denver board say. I have seen Camby play enough to know he is not soft and that he does play defense. You still haven't backed up your statements that he doesn't play defense and can't finish at the rim yet he was DPOY in 2007 and he finsihed inside at a 56% clip this yr. Also, he would be a great fit next to Perk and KG as a weakside shotblocker. I would bring him off the bench and have him swatting **** and dunking at the rim all game.

56% Inside finishing is not good for a big man. Since you just HAAAD to go and pull some 82games stats, i'll see if they prove what i'm saying or not. By posting those stats for the regular season rotation sans Brown and Cassell for lack of sample rate:

KG - 72.5%
Rondo - 58.9%
House - 44.0%
Pierce - 61.3 %
Perkins - 69.1%
Ray - 59.4%
Powe - 63.9%
Posey - 59.0%
Davis - 55.4%

Outside of house, who barely even took a layup all season, only big baby was worse at finishing around the basket. Camby even missed almsot 10% of his dunks this year...wtf?

Also, he's not a center, being 6'11 doesn't make you a center if you're about 230 lbs. Just like 7'1 KG isn't a center. Camby is soft, he doesn't like to bang inside on either end of the floor and he's injury prone when he does with weaksauce injuries.

He would be a terrible fit alongside KG because he forces KG to play center. He would be a terrible fit alongside perkins because that forces pierce and ray to settle for the outside J.

Camby can make weakside blocks, sure. That doesn't mean he's an elite defender. He doesn't alter toomany shots if he didn't get the block, and he's not a good defender down low.