Billups or Parker?

[The Main Event]

Had a big argument with my know-it-all friend the other day. I need you guys to step in the middle of these topics of debate:

1) Which PG would you rather start a franchise with?
(a) Tony Parker
(b) Chauncey Billups

2) Who has a "better" 3 point shot?
(a) Ray Allen
(b) Larry Bird

3) Who would win in a best of 7. The Lakers now or the Shaq-Lakers of early 2000's?

[Baller 24]

1)
Chauncey, better defensively, better shooter, and has the qualities of a point guard to lead your team.

2)
Larry Bird was the better shooter, he is known as one of the greatest shooters of all time, and knocked down so many great buzzer beaters, and was just overall a terrific shooter. Larry Bird would come to the court about 3 hrs before game time, to just shoot around, and its been recorded he would miss only 2-4 out of about 250 attempts.

3)
The 3 peat Lakers with Shaq were better. Shaq in his prime is better then Bynum, Turiaf and Gasol combined. If the Lakers still had prime Shaq with Kobe they would IMO still dominate the league.

[The Main Event]

THANK YOU! obviously this is completely subjective but having one more person back me up should shatter his little dreams. haha.

[NO-KG-AI]

Yeah, I agree with Baller24. I think Ray would be the only one that even stands a chance of these 3 arguments, the other two are laughable.

[The Main Event]

Really? Because my buddy was adimant that Parker is a better pg than Billups. My argument that both have equal basketball iq's but Billups looks like Lebron beside Parker in terms of stature.

[The Main Event]

And i think that the 3rd one isn't all that laughable. The lakers now would definitely give the lakers of early 2000's a good run.

[That Nicka]

And i think that the 3rd one isn't all that laughable. The lakers now would definitely give the lakers of early 2000's a good run.

with a healthy Bynum yeah... Shaq would put Gasol in a casket

[Copperhead]

-= original quote snipped =-



with a healthy Bynum yeah... Shaq would put Gasol in a casket

[NO-KG-AI]

Actually, I do think Ray is the better 3 point shooter, maybe the best of all time.

[WesWesley]

Actually, I do think Ray is the better 3 point shooter, maybe the best of all time.

Wide open, Larry Bird was better. With a hand in his face, Larry was better. Ray's maybe is sweeter, but Larry was the better shooter, when you think of a guy who can go out there and hit 60-70 in a row.

[NO-KG-AI]

Well I don't care about who can hit what in practice, fact is, Ray has taken a lot more 3's and hit them at a better percentage...

Larry Bird for his career:

1.9 three point attempts per game, at 37.6%

Ray Allen:

6.1 three point attempts per game, at 39.8%

Actually after I looked the stats up, it really doesn't look that close at all, and it's not as if Ray was a second option knocking down open looks, he's had less guys to draw attention away than Larry.

Larry can hit 250 straight in practice...cool, doesn't mean much here though.

[WesWesley]

Bird didn't take as many 3's as Allen, but that doesn't mean he couldn't shoot it as well. Bird's game was far more diverse than Allen, so he wouldn't shoot the three as often. Just because it wasn't Bird's specialty doesn't mean he wasn't as good a shooter as Allen.

With the game on the line, down by 3, who's hands do you put the ball in? If you answer Ray, you fail at life.

I found a good video on Larry's shooting ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Qn4JjJ ... re=related

[NO-KG-AI]

Oh I'd take Larry over Ray in the clutch for sure.

I still don't think he was the better shooter over the course of a season, or an entire game.

If Larry Shot 6.1 per game, it stands to reason that his efficiency would drop... maybe not noticably, but since he is already a few percentage points behind Ray, it would make a noticable difference.

Ray shot like 43.4% from deep one year on 7.7 attempts per game, or something outrageous like that, and 8.4 attempts, at 41.2%

Edit:Larry's career best was 3.1 per game, at 41.4. Larry's highest percentage in a single season was 42.7%, at 1.6 per game.

Point is, Ray takes A LOT more 3's, and hits them at a fairly higher percentage. There's really no way around it.

[WesWesley]

Oh I'd take Larry over Ray in the clutch for sure.

I still don't think he was the better shooter over the course of a season, or an entire game.

If Larry Shot 6.1 per game, it stands to reason that his efficiency would drop... maybe not noticably, but since he is already a few percentage points behind Ray, it would make a noticable difference.

Ray shot like 43% from deep one year on 7.7 attempts per game, or something outrageous like that

The 3 point shot wasn't utilized nearly as much as it is today. While Ray is a great shooter, I don't think using stats is fair in this comparison because they are playing in different eras, and play completely different roles on the basketball court.

I know Birds stats don't show how good of a shooter he was, because if you look at his early years, he shot a pretty awful percentage. We all know that he wasn't that bad of a shooter. The issue is that he was taking those shots under different circumstances than players typically do today. Those were probably much harder three point shots, that were more forced than a set jump shot. The reason I say this is because in the 80s, coaches didn't run as many plays for 3 point shooters, which today are designed to get them open shots.

So while I don't have a stat to back this up, I'm almost certain that Ray took far more open three pointers than Bird, because in the 80s they would move in and take the "higher" percentage shot. That's no knock on Bird's shooting though, it's just the way they played the game.

[Baller 24]

In a game in Washington against the Bullets in 1987, the Celtics trailed the Bullets by 3 points with 6 seconds remaining in regulation. A three-pointer by Bird had been waved off because their coach, K. C. Jones, had already called a timeout. Bird then made another three-pointer to send the game into overtime. When the Celtics trailed by two points near the end of the first overtime, Bird was fouled and converted both free throws. In the second overtime, trailing by 1 point with 2 seconds remaining, Bird made a buzzer-beating running shot to win the game, 140

[NO-KG-AI]

You're probably right, but it's not like it's really that close in the number of attempts, Ray shoots more than 3 times as many per games, and still hits them at a higher clip. We basically hijacked this topic, but I think it's a good and valid discussion

[WesWesley]

^ The OP basically has a three for one thread going on here, with one title. lol.

[Malinhion]

Billups is a playmaker. Parker is a Monta Ellis that's been trained to flourish on a championship squad with a narrowly-defined role.

Ray Allen is a better three-point shooter than Larry Bird. Bird could hit it all over the floor at any angle, but if I know I need a trey I'm putting Ray Allen in the game. He can shoot 600+ in a season and still hit them at a 40% clip. He can playmaker on the perimeter. He's got the smoothest stroke we've ever seen. He holds the record for most 3-pointers made in a season. Larry, IIRC, didn't even play with a 3-point line his whole career.

And I'll take the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, easily. We're talking a threepeat dynasty vs. a team that just made the NBA Finals.

[Basileus777]

I'd take Parker over Billups today. Billups isn't what he was a few years ago, he's still a good player but he's living on his reputation. Billups isn't anything special as a playmaker, and his struggles against big guards is an issue. Chauncy has struggled the last three years in the playoffs, he doesn't get enough blame for the Pistons playoff struggles.

[The Main Event]

^ The OP basically has a three for one thread going on here, with one title. lol.

I don't mind at all. In fact, the Larry vs Ray was the topic that we got most heated over. We were both hammered and ended up having a 3 point contest outside my house to prove who was right. I don't remember what happened. haha