Zones v. Hand-check

eatyourchildren · Post #1 » by **eatyourchildren** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:15 pm

Which is harder to defeat from a team perspective?

1. Hand-check but no Zones
or
2. Zones but no hand-check

Which is harder to defeat from a singular player's perspective?

PimpORL · Post #2 » by **PimpORL** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:23 pm

Zone, easily, especially if you aren't a great shooter. Effect of hand-checking=really overrated.

eatyourchildren · Post #3 » by **eatyourchildren** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:30 pm

PimpORL wrote:Zone, easily, especially if you aren't a great shooter. Effect of hand-checking=really overrated.

To be clear: you think hand-checks are easier to overcome than zones?

Post #4 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:32 pm

Yeah, he thinks anything now is harder than anything in the past.

Teen Girl Squad · Post #5 » by **Teen Girl Squad** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:33 pm

Zones>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hand checking. Just look at the Spurs series and Kobe. Bowen practically was able to HC and they single covered him most of the time and went off.

PimpORL · Post #6 » by **PimpORL** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:33 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

To be clear: you think hand-checks are easier to overcome than zones?

Yea.

PimpORL · Post #7 » by **PimpORL** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:37 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:Yeah, he thinks anything now is harder than anything in the past.

lol You seriously think hand-checking would hurt an offense more than zone?

prophet_of_rage · Post #8 » by **prophet_of_rage** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:59 pm

Handchecking in the NBA is tougher than zones because in the NBA you can't play a real zone any way. If you play a 1-3-1 you can't have a man protecting the basket. Same with a 2-3 because of the defensive 3 second rule so you're not facing real zones. Hand checking means that your defender can literally shove you anywhere he wants you to go. If you don't call it it definitely affects a player's athleticism. That takes away a lot of the fancy drives that these players have, their ability to pull up on balance. You'll be surprised how effective the hand check is. Notice how scoring has gone up dramatically?

Kobay · Post #9 » by **Kobay** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:08 pm

^scoring has gone down... The fact is they rarely call hand checks today. And zone defense is played more to prevent penetratin and force 3 point shots.

Cracked Fingers · Post #10 » by **Cracked Fingers** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:09 pm

Eh. Players just slapped the defenders hand away anyway.

j-ragg · Post #11 » by **j-ragg** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:11 pm

Zone is tougher if you're playing a high school team.

NBA players are too smart for zones to be effective. Play zone against a team like the Pistons and I guarantee it gets broken down easily.

Farsi Man · Post #12 » by **Farsi Man** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:13 pm

This is just leading to a Kobe vs MJ fight and all the Kobe haters will say zone does nothing and handchecks are impossible now adays and it's impossible to do anything with handchecks.

eatyourchildren · Post #13 » by **eatyourchildren** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:32 pm

Farsi Man wrote:This is just leading to a Kobe vs MJ fight and all the Kobe haters will say zone does nothing and handchecks are impossible now adays and it's impossible to do anything with handchecks.

Nobody mentioned MJ until you did. So let's try to leave him out of it unless its really relevant.

Are there players that have played in both eras, and how has their scoring, foul-drawing, etc. fared?

Farsi Man · Post #14 » by **Farsi Man** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:36 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Nobody mentioned MJ until you did. So let's try to leave him out of it unless its really relevant.

Are there players that have played in both eras, and how has their scoring, foul-drawing, etc. fared?

Trust it was going to and will get mentioned and turn into Kobe vs MJ but I'll stop now.

Miami's Finest · Post #15 » by **Miami's Finest** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:42 pm

No handchecking makes it much harder, guys can roam free on the perimeter and shoot or drive with much greater ease. I know Kobe's stats for one went up after the handcheck rule, and all those type of players would benefit. It makes it much harder to defend those caliber of players without handchecking.

Teen Girl Squad · Post #16 » by **Teen Girl Squad** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:55 pm

The zone wasn't just a 2-3 deal, it allowed much more frequent double teams and more importantly double teams off the ball. Everyone was practically single covered in the 80s. Handchecking is more disruptive than a 2-3 or 1-3-1 but the ability to double and triple on and off the ball is much more significant than being able to poke the ball. Having both were insane because people were getting double and triple teamed and it was hard to penetrate or dish effectively.

eatyourchildren · Post #17 » by **eatyourchildren** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:58 pm

Miami's Finest wrote:No handchecking makes it much harder, guys can roam free on the perimeter and shoot or drive with much greater ease. I know Kobe's stats for one went up after the handcheck rule, and all those type of players would benefit. It makes it much harder to defend those caliber of players without handchecking.

Well, Kobe's stats went up because Shaq wasn't there anymore and he was getting WAY more touches.

Kobe is one swing who wouldn't get affected much by either handcheck or zones (in my opinion), because of his all-around game. His work against Bowen and Bell have proven that, I think.

What about guys like AI?

Kobay · Post #18 » by **Kobay** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:59 pm

Miami's Finest wrote:No handchecking makes it much harder, guys can roam free on the perimeter and shoot or drive with much greater ease. I know Kobe's stats for one went up after the handcheck rule, and all those type of players would benefit. It makes it much harder to defend those caliber of players without handchecking.

When is that?

Kobay · Post #19 » by **Kobay** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:01 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Well, Kobe's stats went up because Shaq wasn't there anymore and he was getting WAY more touches.

Kobe is one swing who wouldn't get affected much by either handcheck or zones (in my opinion), because of his all-around game. His work against Bowen and Bell have proven that, I think.

What about guys like AI?

Basically When a player plays for 82 games they score alot and especially when they get alot of touches.

AI when he played around 80 games back in 98 or in 02-03, same fts and same shooting %. but when he got more possessions his % went down.

His best was when he entered his prime in philly.

There wasn't many good swing man when jordan actually played compared to now...In fact who was in early 90s ?

Miami's Finest · Post #20 » by **Miami's Finest** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:10 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Well, Kobe's stats went up because Shaq wasn't there anymore and he was getting WAY more touches.

Kobe is one swing who wouldn't get affected much by either handcheck or zones (in my opinion), because of his all-around game. His work against Bowen and Bell have proven that, I think.

What about guys like AI?

His FG% jumped quite a bit after the handcheck rule. His numbers of FT's would be down without the handcheck rule IMO being able to roam free on the perimeter makes driving or pulling up and shooting much easier. With guys in Kobe's, Lebron's class it is very beneficial and makes guarding them much harder.