who would want Bibby?

[evildallas]

Expiring deals are useful for acquiring talented but overpriced players from a team ready to rebuild (like Ray Allen) or combined with young affordable talent and picks to get an a disgruntled star from a team ready to rebuild (like Kevin Garnett).

Who is out there this year in those categories? Mike Miller (2yr 19M), Michael Redd (3yr 51M), Jermaine O'Neal (2yr 44M), Vince Carter (4yr 68M), Richard Jefferson (3yr 43M), some of the Nuggets, most of the Knicks. Are any of them worth the risk? Mike Miller, but expect him to be handcuffed to Brian Cardinal (2yr 13M). Maybe Nene (4yr 43M) but there is the health risk. Maybe Michael Redd, but he's weak on D. The list of off-season rebuilders isn't as solid this year as last. Maybe we have to wait until mid-season and hope for a Pau Gasol type yard sale.

The other possibility would be the contract of TJ Ford and filler contract like Anthony Parker, Jason Kapono, or Rasho Nesterovic. Toronto would get a do over on 2 contracts and insurance for 1 year as they invest in Jose Calderon.

Trading one expiring contract for another player with an expiring contract doesn't really happen unless both teams agree there is a change of scenery needed or positions make a better match. Bibby hasn't worn out his welcome here and since our only other PG is Law it isn't like we need to switch for a player at another position. Theoretically you could trade one expiring PG for another like Marbury but why? Why for either team?

The other reason to trade them is that you anticipate losing them for nothing and the cap room won't help. That's not the case either as cap room would be useful considering that players are coming off of their rookie deals and looking to get paid. Even if that were a motivation the trade probably wouldn't happen until the deadline.

I expect Bibby to start the season here as the Hawks try to find out what they can do from a season start. Depending on how the year goes he could get resigned at a mutually acceptable level, could be traded by the deadline, or could be allowed to walk for cap savings. To trade him in the off-season requires a bold step and that isn't Rick Sund or Atlanta's forte.

[Harry10]

We're probably going to have to hope Bibby comes back healthy next season. The potential he has if healthy beats the pants off of giving him away.

Maybe at mid-season, we can trade him (his contract would be even more attractive then) if Acie shows up.

what scares me is that even when Bibby is healthy, he is still known as a poor defender.

[HoopsGuru25]

HG- do you think Marbury is an upgrade over Bibby when motivated? Because if he is, there is no reason not to do it since he's not an expiring deal.

That's a lame question. I don't think he is motivated and I don't think his 1st step is going to be nearly as quick as it was the last time he had a good year(which was pre-Eddy Curry). He's 31 and coming off consecutive season ending injuries. I don't think he's going to be better than Bibby next year...infact I'm pretty sure this entire discussion is going to look extremely dumb by the all-star break next year because he's probably going to be hurt or bought out.

And as for not getting along with a "legend." I wouldn't consider Larry Brown's time in NY or anything Isiah Thomas ever did off the court to be worthy of that term.

It doesn't matter what they did in New York. The fact is that both their names hold weight and Marbury was STILL horrible under both of them. Larry Brown is not a players coach so I could sort of understand that but Isiah and Marbury were VERY close before last year and he still ended up selling him out just like every other head coach he's been with. Now do you think Marbury is going to get along with Woodson if he can't get along with his 'father figure". I find it hilarious that you consider players like Jermaine O'neal(who has never been considered a bad teammate) a cancer but you would vouch for a trade for Stephon Marbury.

[JoshB914]

I am not "vouching for Marbury. All I'm saying is that Marbury is an upgrade over Bibby, and there will be very little risk involved as he is an expirer and in my opinion will be motivated (therefore we can get through one season with "good Stephon"). Why not upgrade at the PG position for one year? Whether it's Bibs or Marbury, I doubt either of them are back in '09.

NO ONE got a long with Isiah for the most part. I'm having trouble believing that you think it's out of the ordinary that Isiah and a player turned against each other since that entire team hated Isiah. In fact there were many reports saying Isiah was to blame for the conflict between him and Marbury. I am not trying to paint Stephon as a nice guy, but feuding with a dictator (and terrible coach) like Isiah is not exactly uncommon. I really don't care if he gets along with Woody, and to be honest I don't think Woody would care either. If it makes us a better team, then we should do it. This league is about winning, not making friends.

As for the Marbury/JO comparison, don't think that I'm trying to make Marbury look like a nice guy. He's got his problems and there is no way I would want him back after this season. But as I said, he's a good PG when motivated and I feel he would be that for one season. If JO was an expring contract I would feel the same way and also be all for trying to get him, but he isn't.

[HoopsGuru25]

Josh you have still not explained why Marbury is an upgrade over Bibby. I could use every argument you are using for Marbury for Steve Francis. You have still not explained why he is going to be motivated to "prove people wrong" when he's had a chance to do with for 12 years and that is when he had superior physical gifts(what is he like at 31 coming off 2 season ending injuries). He's has already said he wants to go to Italy after his contract is up. That does not sound like a very motivated person to me.

As for Isiah not getting along with anyone...are you serious? Isiah is a players coach. Jermaine O'neal said he wouldn't have signed his contract with the Pacers if he had known they would fire Isiah. Eddy Curry said he didn't want to come back if they didn't give Isiah Thomas an extension last year. Even Marbury said Isiah was like a father figure to him...that makes the fact that he went crazy and threatened to reveal some secrets about him(this after flying BACK to New York while his team was in Phoenix) in order to start look even more ridiculous.The players vouching for him is the only reason he got that ridiculous contract for the Knicks anyway. I see nothing good that can come out of this. He doesn't seem motivated to play,he's always been a coach killer,and how much does physical ability does he have left at 31 even if he was an ideal teammate and gave 100 % everynight(which won't happen btw)?

[JoshB914]

1) First of all, you cannot use that Francis argument since his career is over. His knees aren't working for him anymore, he's Speedy version 2. If you were talking about Francis before he became a cripple and with an expiring contract, I would be all for it.

2) You're kidding about Isiah right? That entire team completely turned on him this season.

3) Why I think he will be motivated: He will want to prove people wrong. He'll want to show that he can be a team player and win games.

4) Why I think he's better than Bibby: More talent overall, better passer, more consistent shooter, and a better defender. I think most would agree that he is more talented. The issue is whether he wants to play or not.

The basic difference here in our opinions is that I think a motivated Marbury is better than Bibby and you don't. And I don't see what's wrong with upgrading our roster with an expriring deal.

[ATLfan]

Bibby has shown that he can still play while Marbury hasn't. It is too big of a risk for us to take because we are poised to make a run in the East next year and we cannot depend on Marbury to lead us.

[killbuckner]

ATLfan- poised to make a run at what in the east?

[ATLfan]

We can easily make a run for the division title and possibly the conference finals if everything goes right and our young players keep developing.

[killbuckner]

Assuming that the roster comes back mostly intact (maybe adding andersen) how many wins do you expect that the Hawks will have next season? (Not could if everything falls just right- how many do you think is likely)

[ATLfan]

I expect 45-50 wins next year.

[td00]

JoshB, I don't see anything in Marbury's career or game that tells me that he is better than Bibby. I mean nothing.
Has Marbury ever been to the conference finals? When was the last time he made his team better?
I never saw it at Tech, not at Phoenix, or the Knicks.

ATLfan, do you truly believe that Woody gets us to potentially 45 wins?
I just haven't seen that from anyone on this board.

We would have to do a lot of overcompensating for Woody's decisions to get to 45 wins. I just think the ASG is just wasting more time keeping him around.

I don't expect the coaching staff to remain intact either, namely Larry Drew.

[ATLfan]

The Marbury lead Jackets went on to win the ACC over a Tim Duncan lead Wake Forest.

I think the growth of our young players and added depth to our bench(hopefully) will take us to 45 wins.

[JoshB914]

I'm with ATLfan. We can win 45 games assuming our young guys continue to improve.

[parson]

With Bibby, we were, basically, a .500 team (15-17). If you throw out the 1st 5 games, we were 14-13.

I don't think it's a stretch to believe we'd play slightly better than .500 ball next season, WITHOUT improvement from our youngsters.

If they improve (never a given, but a great hope with young'uns), we could win 50-55.

If we lose Smoove/Chilz or if Bibby's unhealthy play is signaling the end for him or if Smoove signs a huge contract and gains a bigger head, well, if any of the above happens, we could actually regress.

[killbuckner]

guys- the thing is that Bibby game has been in decline for 3 seasons now. I know some here don't like PER but it will sure help show the decline in his game. 19.23, 17.93, 16.07, 14.55- those numbers just aren't going in a happy direction. I still like the trade- the Hawks gave up little more than expiring contracts to get him and he is an upgrade over what they had but that doesn't change the fact that he is a below average PG now and is likely in decline.

[JoshB914]

Bibby is definetely on the decline. But all we need is a decent starting PG at this point.

I agree with Parson, we went .500 with Bibby (don't forget that the last two losses were a wash as we had already clinched the eight seed). And you have to think our young guys will continue to get better. I would like to see us make a legit challenge for home court advantage in the first round, but we'll have to wait and see how things shake out.

[ATLfan]

We don't need the Mike Bibby of old for our team to compete. All we need Bibby to do is average 12 and 5 because Acie should be better next year.