Per Wiretap: Lakers better when Kobe doesn't shoot a lot

[Patterns]

In the playoffs;
When Kobe shoots 24 or more shots Lakers are 5-1
When Kobe shoots 23 or less shots Lakers are 7-2
This proves the Lakers are better in the playoffs when he is a volume shooter.
When Kobe shoots 18 or more times Lakers are 9-3
When Kobe shoots 17 or less times Lakers are 3-0
When Kobe shoots between 24 and 30 shots Lakers are 5-0
When Kobe gets 2 or more Offensive Rebounds Lakers are 1-2
When Kobe gets 10 or more assists Lakers lose half their games
When Kobe gets 5 or more turnovers Lakers are 3-0
When Kobe gets 4 turnovers Lakers are 0-2
When Kobe plays between 38 and 42 minutes Lakers are 6-0
When Kobe makes exactly 13 shots Lakers are 0-2

BRINGTHEPAIN needs to explain all of that.

[ko8e]

My point above, is when Kobe shoots more it means nothing. When he shoots less it still means nothing. The reason for this is when stats are taken out of context, people make false assumptions. Imagine Phil Jackson using this data to coach the Lakers. The Lakers would be in trouble.

Take games 2 and 3 in Utah;
In game 2 Kobe shot 18 times had 34 points--they win by 10
In game 3 Kobe shot 20 times had 34 points--they lose by 7
Not a lot of difference in those two games by Kobe. The difference was the Win was at home, and the Loss was on the road. How many shots Kobe took did not effect the outcomes of those games.

When people use stats like these to prove that Kobe shoots too much, you can see the hate perpetuated by the media. What other reason would you see an article like that, skewering the stats, other than hate?

[Pancho_Pantera]

Kobe is god. Deal with it.

[ko8e]

I think the most telling stat would be the Lakers' record when Kobe gets to the line a bunch

It's not how many shots he takes, but the number of his shots that draw fouls

Well in the playoffs;
When Kobe shoots 10 or more FT's Lakers are 6-2
When Kobe shoots 9 or less FT's Lakers are 6-1

These stats are really fools gold. Let's just say, when Kobe's on the floor the Lakers are better for it. Stats really prove nothing. You have to watch a game to see the real greatness. It's sad that these haters try to downplay what he does.

[Boognish]

-= original quote snipped =-



Well in the playoffs;
When Kobe shoots 10 or more FT's Lakers are 6-2
When Kobe shoots 9 or less FT's Lakers are 6-1

These stats are really fools gold. Let's just say, when Kobe's on the floor the Lakers are better for it. Stats really prove nothing. You have to watch a game to see the real greatness. It's sad that these haters try to downplay what he does.

Too small of a sample to say anything. The Lakers have won practically every game this post season

[Bgil]

When the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. But when they are not playing well Kobe shoots a lot and it leads to loses. Why not try a different solution when the Lakers aren't playing well? Its been proven that Kobe isn't the solution.

You didn't get that from the data presented. There are several assumptions and cause-effect relationships you're using that are supported by any data nor are provided by the OP.

[Andrew Bynasty]

That is why Kobe has to get his teammates involved for them to win. He can't play freelance offense anymore. Anyway, Kobe has played within the Triangle for every game in these playoffs, and its working.

Umm... What about the last game the Lakers played? You remember, that close game agaisnt the Spurs...? The one where he completely took over and dominated in the 4th. The one where he refused to let his team lose... He wasnt playing within the system by any means, but it was the only way IMO they would've won that game.

[Milan24]

-= original quote snipped =-



Exactly. Thats what makes Dwade so great, with only 70% mobility he is a 47% fg shooter, because he doesn't launch silly shots and he gets to the line.

And his team won 15 games.

[INKtastic]

When the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. But when they are not playing well Kobe shoots a lot and it leads to loses. Why not try a different solution when the Lakers aren't playing well? Its been proven that Kobe isn't the solution.

\

That's just nonsense. If Kobe doesn't shoot when the other lakers aren't playing well, they'd lose more. The only time it's potentially a problem is when Kobe shoots a lot in the first quarter before the other players have a chance to get on track.

[TheOUTLAW]

I think this is about the most ridiculus argument that I've ever heard. Fact is, Kobe shoots more when his team is not playing well and not that he is causing the team to play more poorly because of his shooting. However, I do want to point one thing out that I noticed in a game early this season. It seemed that Kobe felt the need to try to respond every time that LeBron scored (in a game when they played each other). As a Cavs fan I loved it because it limited what the other players had the opportunity to do. This is however an issue that alot of the top tier players have when playing against each other.

[ko8e]

-= original quote snipped =-



Too small of a sample to say anything. The Lakers have won practically every game this post season

That's basically my point. These stats mean nothing because Kobe has played every type of game imaginable, and the Lakers have won. The thing that actually hurts the Lakers the most is being on the road, not Kobe shooting to much or not being aggressive enough. The Lakers are better off no matter what Kobe tries to do. The media tries to make us believe that if Kobe would take 19 shots instead of 20 then the Lakers are better off. Their are too many variables that go into winning to just go off and make blanket statements about how much Kobe shoots.

I have personally witnessed tons of games where Kobe needed to shoot a lot just to keep the team in the game. Kobe gets ridiculed for shooting too much because people are jealous of success. Kobe has proved more than once that one man can take over a game. Sometimes it's all for not, and they lose anyway. Sometimes he actually pulls it off, and he does pull it off more than any other player in the game. That's why he will be remembered as a legend.

To have some nerdy statistician write an article about fallible statistics that he can skewer to say whatever he wants people to believe, is a slap in the face of players like Kobe. Kobe is a guy that works harder than anybody else in the game. I'm sure he knows more about the effects of his shot selection than the nerdy writer of this article.

We are witnessing greatness with this player. He won't be playing forever. I'm gonna' enjoy every minute of his career. I'll let Kobe decide how many shots he needs to take. Sometimes he's gonna' take a shot he probably shouldn't, but I guarentee at the end of the day he'll do more good for the Lakers and the game of basketball, than some nerdy statistician ever could do.

What this article did was misuse statistics. Here is a great entry in wiki about how misused statistics can fool even the most innocent of offenders. My guess is the offending nerd that wrote this article wasn't so innocent. He wanted it to show that Kobe is only effective for the Lakers, if he doesn't shoot more than 19. The problem is I caught him red-handed, but most people won't.

[wilt]

Without checking for relevance : FTs should be taken into account. A player shooting 18 FGs and 15 FTs "shot more" than a guy shooting 20 FGs and 2 FTs.
So it also could be interesting to see how it looks in terms of games with more or less than 9 FTs.

Because i do believe that the indication about how to defend him is right : Play him honest and keep him out of the lane and not letting him camp at the line. Actually thought the Spurs gameplan and the defense on him was fine, he just outplayed that defense.
He had just 10 FTs in 5 games after averaging 9 against the nuggets and 16 against the Jazz. Also had less than 4 assists a game and just 5 the last 3 games.
Simply was money from midrange and shot the ball in terrific fashion against good defense.

Still, if i

[Derekman]

Without checking for relevance : FTs should be taken into account. A player shooting 18 FGs and 15 FTs "shot more" than a guy shooting 20 FGs and 2 FTs.
So it also could be interesting to see how it looks in terms of games with more or less than 9 FTs.

Because i do believe that the indication about how to defend him is right : Play him honest and keep him out of the lane and not letting him camp at the line. Actually thought the Spurs gameplan and the defense on him was fine, he just outplayed that defense.
He had just 10 FTs in 5 games after averaging 9 against the nuggets and 16 against the Jazz. Also had less than 4 assists a game and just 5 the last 3 games.
Simply was money from midrange and shot the ball in terrific fashion against good defense.

Still, if i

[shobe_81]

Yea but Celtics have great help defense and team defense!

[Derekman]

Yea but Celtics have great help defense and team defense!

But the Celtics also have a knack for making stupid fouls. The Spurs played great D on Kobe by making him make shots and giving him open layups when he went to the rim. I can see Kendrick Perkins fouling out most of the games and he's their best defender against Gasol. Gasol would wreck Big Baby and Leon Powe because they don't have the size to block his jumphooks or even make them difficult.

I think they key to this series for the Celtics is for Perkins to stay on the floow; if he gets quick fouls, i'd say the Celtics are done.