amare stoudemire

[sunsblood]

so i just jumped on the suns forum to see what's new and all i see is a bunch of trade threads which include amare stoudemire.

i see lunatic posts about how brand when healthy is amare and how deron and millsap = amare.

amare stoudemire is the most gifted offensive big man in the nba. he is the centerpiece of the suns and we just traded shawn marion making him the MAN.

oh but some of you want to see us bring in elton brand for him? are you kidding me? i hate you all. so many of you are so dumb and with no knowledge about basketball and nba basketball.

oh also, really good idea for us to trade barbosa (amazing contract) for chris "where's the d" wilcox and the 24th pick . like #24 is going to help us

and btw, say hello to flip saunders. id actually like that hire

steve kerr is and will always be an uncle tom

[thamadkant]

If you take off your Suns sunglasses, specifically your Stoudemire is GOD mantra.


Jazz will reject the Suns' offer of Stoudemire for Williams + Millsap.


You think everyone sees Stoudemire like you do? I've seen enough games, as much as you probably. And I was impress, Stoudemire is a stud and a half, unstoppable in the offensive end... most nights.


You turn your back on Brand as if he had leprosy, Brand KILLED Stoudemire in their matchups.


Brand is a better overall player than Stoudemire. Even when Stoudemire's offensive capability is much better than Brand... why? Because Stoudemire is a liability in the defensive end and on the boards.
Again, Im hoping its the coaching...

About your personal attack....
No knowledge of NBA basketball? Basketball... STFU man. Just STFU about that... it seems YOU dont know jack... if you just laugh at players like Brand.

yes the Suns traded Marion, made Stoudemire the man! and he has stepped up offensively... but thats it... I'm still to see him bring the 15 rebounds, hustle play that Marion brought...

again, STFU about you knowing more about NBA... You were probably sucking on ur mums nips while I was watching and playing basketball..

[Sun Scorched]

yes the Suns traded Marion, made Stoudemire the man! and he has stepped up offensively... but thats it... I'm still to see him bring the 15 rebounds, hustle play that Marion brought....

We know he can do it. There was that period of time where over 4-5 games he averaged 30pts and 15rbs...

Amare has to grow up, everyone on this board can agree on that. But Tim Duncan and great players like him peak at around 28-31 years old. Every off-season they are adding another aspect to their game.

Have you seen Amare's growth? Sure he is still weak defensively, but his jump-shot has gotten much better, much better. He hardly missess freethrows, it's almost like sending Nash to the line. His rebounding has improved since he has moved back to his natural position of PF.

Thing was with Shawn here, Amare was playing as an undersized center and having to compete for boards as such. Now he can roam a bit more and use his speed to track down balls. Let's not forget he has one of the quickest second jumps in the NBA, bad knees and all.

Finally, I'll agree that Brand is a better overall basketball player right now. I think that with all of the years he has on Amare, that's fair to say. But Amare brings passion, determination and energy to the Suns team and to its fans. To overlook that as simple "homerism" is just plain stupid.

[rsavaj]

amare stoudemire is the most gifted offensive big man in the nba

Is he really though? He's a great offensive player, but so are Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Elton Brand. Not only do they have great face-up games(and I believe Amare is a better face-up player than all of them), but they are also able to produce with their backs to the basket...something we haven't seen Stoudemire do. tsherkin can probably shed a lot more light on that.

i see lunatic posts about how brand when healthy is amare and how deron and millsap = amare.

With the way Deron Williams has been playing, and with Amare's injury concerns, I highly, HIGHLY doubt Utah would trade Deron for Amare straight up. Why don't you try proposing it on the Utah forum and see what they think.

and btw, say hello to flip saunders. id actually like that hire

steve kerr is and will always be an uncle tom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Sun Scorched, you bring up excellent points, but it's hard not to dismiss it as homerism when it comes in this package:

i hate you all. so many of you are so dumb and with no knowledge about basketball and nba basketball.

[Sun Scorched]

Haha, fair enough.

[eastsidecrossover]

Ok, this is kind of lame how some of you guys act like kids. KG does not have a back to the basket game first off. Brand is a solid player, but even with Amares shortcomings, I will take him any day over Brand. the willams + millsap is the worst trade idea I have ever heard. Williams is solid, but I rather have Amare still. What crap is that? williams is good, but millsap? come on, that is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Brand has not killed amare man. No way. Yeah, amare may not have played good D, but also, Amare has had to play Caveman, and Marion played Brand before he got hurt. Remember over a year ago? The year before that, amare was out with an injury

[-SDU-]

i think the OP is too homerish and some of the other replies are wrong too but i lean way more towards the OP than any other person who disagrees with him

there isnt another PF or C in the entire NBA that I would trade amare for

closest would be Dwight

other players i may trade him for in the right situation would be Paul, Bron, maybe Deron and thats about it

[thamadkant]

The thing is... some here JUST ARE NOT OPEN MINDED to any trades with Stoudemire in it... even if it improves the team NOW or in the LONG run...

I dont hate Stoudemire, I just spent a few hundred bucks getting a couple of jerseys with "Stoudemire" on it... bottomline, I like the guy. How could you not..... he's very exciting, and IS a beast in the offensive end.



It seems people, some here, didnt see my "I hope its just the coaching" disclaimer...

I also think Stoudemire hasnt been coached properly.... he has always been told to let the opponents get their shot up and get ready to run....once you get into that habit, its difficult to change it, especially when you get to spend more energy dunking on people's heads or just going nuts in the offense.

But, COME ON NOW... don't give me sugar coated opinions on Amare when he absolutely frustrates you.... and dont fckin lie... you know it... and you've sworn at the TV a few times when Amare does dumbasz moves or just WTF moments..... that players like Duncan, KG, Dirk, and the man of the topic.. Brand.. doesnt do a lot.... yet Stoudemire.. with his brilliant offense, he does cancel that a lot of times by just being frustratingly BAD in the defensive end.... AGAIN, I stated that it is due to lack of coaching and bad habit.... and HOPING that the new coaching staff does work on him... again think back....those 6, 7 rebound games and Suns lost in the playoffs.... thats very very frustrating on Amare...



And about my trade proposals wit Stoudemire... the one reason is, that I want a high draft pick to come back to Phoenix somehow.... as the Suns have none.... IF the OP actually did his bit, my Brand proposal in some threads asked for No.7 back to the Suns..... Brand and a No.7 and filler for Stoudemire and filler......

Why dismiss it automatically? without thinking carefully.... Brand is a heck of a player, that 7th pick can net you a combo guard or another servicable big.... that the Suns can use as a core player, once Nash and O'Neal retires....



and another reason, I am a bit pessimistic with the Suns outlook for next season.... because it really DEPENDS HIGHLY on how Stoudemire becomes a defender and a rebounder... if he doesnt improve enough... the Suns are just first round bait again....


atleast with Brand, you know, he will get you 10+ rebounds a night and keep the defense honest. And still do a good job on the big men in the west... Duncan, Boozer, West, Gasol etc....

YOU ALL KNOW, if Stoudemire cannot stop or atleast do a decent job defensively on those guys.... he can score 40 but still Suns will struggle to win...... the West is STACKED next season also... dont forget that...

So yes, one reason I am looking for Amare trades... is to improve the defense and rebounding, while not losing too much offense.... and also a core player for the future...

another reason why I am looking for trades with Barbosa......




NOW... I gave my reasoning.... atleast a bit of thought into it...

Unlike the OP who not only DIDNT EXPLAIN ANYTHING.... called people names... and thought he KNEW about NBA and basketball more than a lot of people here.... just felt like slappin him for real..



Once again, just think of a the lineup of...

O'Neal
Brand
Diaw
Bell
Nash

No.7
No.15
Barbosa
Hill


Thats DEEP and the front court is much more versatile than with Amare (assuming he doesnt improve in the rebounding and defense end).... and Suns get YOUNGER!!! more pieces for a re-tool when Nash and O'Neal expires.... I think of the long and short run...

[-SDU-]

i cant go into detail here coz im busy at the moment, but 2 points regarding your post

youre assuming brand fully recovers from is knee injury

also, your assuming amare wont improve. IMO amare is already better than brand, and it takes a brave man to say amare wont improve. the guy continually proves people wrong and exceeds expectations in one way or another. i fully expect that to happen again and amare will be in mvp contention next year

amare has been out of position for his entire career and having to defend other teams C's when he was a PF has stifled his defensive learnings because he is always going up against bigger stronger guys and has no big man behind him to back him up. I expect next year with shaq alongside him for the year and a new coach for amare to show the biggest improvement on defense for his entire career. thats what im assuming. I wont doubt the guy

plus brand and shaq are both post players and wouldnt work alongside each other as well as shaqs inside and amares pick and roll / jumpshot style play does, which could well extend to three point range soon

the 7th pick adds some spice for sure, but not enough for me to consider that deal, thanks but no thanks

[ma_falaa_50]

I like how the OP called Steve Kerr an Uncle Tom. Has anyone told him that Steve Kerr is not black.

as far as trading brand for amare thats just dumb. Brand best years playing is behind him. Although Amare is yet to become the complete player, fact of the matter is Brnad may not be the same player as he was because of a torn achilles.

[pidi]

we

[thamadkant]

i cant go into detail here coz im busy at the moment, but 2 points regarding your post

youre assuming brand fully recovers from is knee injury

also, your assuming amare wont improve. IMO amare is already better than brand, and it takes a brave man to say amare wont improve. the guy continually proves people wrong and exceeds expectations in one way or another. i fully expect that to happen again and amare will be in mvp contention next year

amare has been out of position for his entire career and having to defend other teams C's when he was a PF has stifled his defensive learnings because he is always going up against bigger stronger guys and has no big man behind him to back him up. I expect next year with shaq alongside him for the year and a new coach for amare to show the biggest improvement on defense for his entire career. thats what im assuming. I wont doubt the guy

plus brand and shaq are both post players and wouldnt work alongside each other as well as shaqs inside and amares pick and roll / jumpshot style play does, which could well extend to three point range soon

the 7th pick adds some spice for sure, but not enough for me to consider that deal, thanks but no thanks

a few things


1, Brand didnt have a Knee injury, he had achilles Injury. And when he played some games this season, he was rusty as expected, but he played well.....

2, Stoudemire is the one with the knee injury, and if you have been watching his style of play lately, he is back to the high flying Stoudemire most loves, which is good for him. But its also a known fact that his knee has a time frame, will require fixing sometime in the future. By the way he is playing, that scenario is pretty much guaranteed.

3, Brand and Shaq post players... so you admit Stoudemire ISNT a post player?, BTW Brand can knock down the mid range, not as well as Stoudemire these days, but Brand's post/back to the basket game is far far superior.... Stoudemire was being guarded by Ginobili and couldnt back him down.... D'Antoni even went to Diaw for the back to ring post up plays.... and by simply watching most of Suns games, its quiet obvious Stoudemire is not so good with that aspect of being a post player...

4, Stoudemire has improved... offensively. Defensively, its
waiting to happen".... and I'm hoping it does. As I stated.... I'm hoping... because its the only way they can win out of the west.

5, Some here wants to build a team around Stoudemire, pre-surgery, YES I would, but when things happen... like injuries, attitude concerns etc... you dont put all your eggs in a basket.... NEVER.

Stoudemire says the right things to the media, I listen, I watch him... his promises of improvement, defense.... it hasnt happened yet, even when he said it at the start of the season....

Some here just isnt very sceptical I suppose..... but Im more critical, Im also open to ideas to keep the Suns legit for years to come...

[chrice]

Amare is my second favorite player on the team. I'd like to be able to fill team needs without having to trade him, but you have to put yourself in a GMs shoes. You're going to be faced with tough decisions like that all the time. Right now, the Suns need to rebuild or go into win mode, otherwise when Shaq and Nash are gone, we'll be stuck in the .50 win category, without much cap space and without draft position to rebuild around Amare/Barbosa/Diaw.

I'm assuming we're going into win all mode. We have a 2 year window, and realistically, whoever we get from the ATL pick will probably be insignificant. So if I'm faced with the chance to get something like Brand/Maggette/Bayless, 3 quality players that fit our team needs, for the price of Amare/Barbosa, I have to strongly consider it. I also think that as Suns fans, we tend to overrate Amare's worth. Personally I am on his jock, when it comes to offense. But that does not erase how bad he is when it comes to defense, foul trouble, and boxing out for rebounds. Brand solves that problem, and leaves less holes to worry about than Amare.

[pidi]

Amare is my second favorite player on the team. I'd like to be able to fill team needs without having to trade him, but you have to put yourself in a GMs shoes. You're going to be faced with tough decisions like that all the time. Right now, the Suns need to rebuild or go into win mode, otherwise when Shaq and Nash are gone, we'll be stuck in the .50 win category, without much cap space and without draft position to rebuild around Amare/Barbosa/Diaw.

I'm assuming we're going into win all mode. We have a 2 year window, and realistically, whoever we get from the ATL pick will probably be insignificant. So if I'm faced with the chance to get something like Brand/Maggette/Bayless, 3 quality players that fit our team needs, for the price of Amare/Barbosa, I have to strongly consider it. I also think that as Suns fans, we tend to overrate Amare's worth. Personally I am on his jock, when it comes to offense. But that does not erase how bad he is when it comes to defense, foul trouble, and boxing out for rebounds. Brand solves that problem, and leaves less holes to worry about than Amare.

i think defense has a lot to do with attitude. tell me one player besides raja bell that plays sticky defense ?? So are we judging amare just about his defense?? i know that if we want to win he has to do better, but just trading a young and good player because he don

[thamadkant]

Amare is my second favorite player on the team. I'd like to be able to fill team needs without having to trade him, but you have to put yourself in a GMs shoes. You're going to be faced with tough decisions like that all the time. Right now, the Suns need to rebuild or go into win mode, otherwise when Shaq and Nash are gone, we'll be stuck in the .50 win category, without much cap space and without draft position to rebuild around Amare/Barbosa/Diaw.

I'm assuming we're going into win all mode. We have a 2 year window, and realistically, whoever we get from the ATL pick will probably be insignificant. So if I'm faced with the chance to get something like Brand/Maggette/Bayless, 3 quality players that fit our team needs, for the price of Amare/Barbosa, I have to strongly consider it. I also think that as Suns fans, we tend to overrate Amare's worth. Personally I am on his jock, when it comes to offense. But that does not erase how bad he is when it comes to defense, foul trouble, and boxing out for rebounds. Brand solves that problem, and leaves less holes to worry about than Amare.

Pretty much what I was getting at also...


Sun's window is pretty short...
In about 3-4 years time, Suns will rely heavily on getting some big FA, but theres 2 things that can get in the way from signing big stars..

[1] Other teams, big city teams will most likely land them, given the choice between Phoenix and what ever big city that is. Also depending on Suns chances.... right now, a team without Nash, just looks bleak.


[2] Stoudemire doesnt require more surgeries that require 1/2 season to recover from. Because tanking the season will not result into high lottery picks since 2010 pick goes to Sonics.




My trade proposals of Brand + Pick + Filler... is all about maintaining the chances NOW and have flexibility for the future.


Heck, I'd do a Brand + Thornton for Stoudemire + Barbosa...

Thornton has exploded to be a stud. Clippers wouldnt do it.

[thamadkant]

-= original quote snipped =-



i think defense has a lot to do with attitude. tell me one player besides raja bell that plays sticky defense ?? So are we judging amare just about his defense?? i know that if we want to win he has to do better, but just trading a young and good player because he don

[nashill]

if suns get a defensive minded coach but amare looks disinterested in playing defense and rebounding the ball, then i agree to trade amare.

[pidi]

if suns get a defensive minded coach but amare looks disinterested in playing defense and rebounding the ball, then i agree to trade amare.

yes, you brought it to the point.
+1

[nba_addict]

^ +2

[ma_falaa_50]

ye there is no way amare shouldnt be averaging a double double. As far as defense he needs to be taught and help accountable. He wants to be the man then he has to prove it. Amare boxing out was a problem but dantoni was never a supporter of boxing people out. Phx needs accountability and discipline especially Amare.