Rondo vs. Fisher

[Colossus]

-= original quote snipped =-

You are quite right....at this point Fisher is the better player

- Shut down Deron Williams (for most of the time)
- Championship experience
- Clutch player

It isnt close

Yeah, he sure shut him down all right, he only averaged 22 and 12 in the conference semifinals, improving on his season and 1st round numbers.

Only his game 1 can be considered a bad game, and he still had 9 assists to 2 TO's

[SLCceltic]

-= original quote snipped =-



The simple truth:
Allen averages 14 in the playoffs. Kobe averages 32.
Wake up

You are underrating Kobe.
He will win all the close games by himself.
He is absolutely clutch.

And with Gasol Lakers are 81,5% win team in regular season, it's better than Boston.
And in playoffs Lakers play simply amazing basketball, entirely other level than Boston's, and the record difference (3 losses compared to 8 losses) show that. And teams Lakers played are better.

Kobe is kobe-----he hasnt won nada since Shaq ----- Miami has


kobe has focused on #14, but KG/truth/rayray are to fu**ing good to let an inferior team like LA get it done

sorry bryant, this is the year of the C's

[Cookin Baskets]

-= original quote snipped =-



You've got it backwards. We've got a clear advantage in the frontcourt, and the Lakers MIGHT have an advantage in the backcourt, but it depends on how Rondo and Ray play. If Good Rajon shows up and Ray is over his slump, it's nearly a wash.

Disagree with that Derek Fisher,Kobe Byrant backcourt starting did win 3 titles in a row so there are experienced winners. Kobe is clutch best player in today's game, and Fisher hits the dagger that cuts the throat of opposing teams. There better then aging Allen and inexperienced rondo anyday..and its not like Allen was ever better then Byrant even in his prime. Its going to hard for Allen to keep up with Kobe who is probaly the best player in this series.

Celtics have a little advantage on the frountcourt Peirce,KG,Perkins is a little bit better then Vlad. Rad, Odom,Gasol it will be interesting to see who guards Peirce,KG. I'd say that KG,Peirce are better then Odom,Gasol and Perkins,Vlad talent wise are equal talented. Despite that its only a lil advantage and Lakers frountcourt is solid.

Celtics will struggle with L.A's 2nd unit though with Sasha,Walton,Farmar,Turiaf is much better then scrubs like Posey,House,Powe and aging Cassell who they didn't need at all..he was more of coach then a player like Brian Shaw for L.A a few years back.

So the greatness of Kobe,Clutchness of Fisher schooling rondo 2nd year and 1st finals appearance,The stronger bench, and the much better/experienced coach in Phil Jackson will completley make Rivers look like a fool while using his zen like intelect.

Thats why I got in L.A in 6 games, clinching it in front of the Boston faithful.

[Cookin Baskets]

-= original quote snipped =-




Kobe is kobe-----he hasnt won nada since Shaq ----- Miami has


kobe has focused on #14, but KG/truth/rayray are to fu**ing good to let an inferior team like LA get it done

sorry bryant, this is the year of the C's

Weak argument indeed while Boston looked terrible in postseason struggling against Altanta,Cleveland Lakers were crushing the elite teams in the West like Utah,San Antonio..the only title contender they faced was Detroit which at times looked ugly,even how poorly billups was playing.

Quite frankley Kobe/Gasol/Odom are better then Peirce/Allen/KG why cause there most versatile, Kobe is the best player in the series, Gasol isn't much worse then KG, Odom is versitile and has played big as the third option for L.A, not only his he scoring but getting on the boards and starting the break. Allen has been a dud in the postseason Odom been esential third option and is a great defensive rebounder that starts the fast break,KG isn't clutch, Kobe is simply better then Paul Peirce, and Gasol will do his thing if he can take on Duncan he can take on Garnett.

While KG,Allen,Peirce rely mostly on perimeter shots and there offensive scheme by Doc Rivers is flawed,unlike L.A who take high percentage shots like Gasol,Odom and Kobe likes to get the double team down in the lane to give to one of the two in the post.

Another reason say even if the Boston big three was better compared to L.A big three they still don't have the supporting cast that matches L.A.

[vegas_runnin_rebel]

Celtics will struggle with L.A's 2nd unit though with Sasha,Walton,Farmar,Turiaf is much better then scrubs like Posey,House,Powe and aging Cassell who they didn't need at all..he was more of coach then a player like Brian Shaw for L.A a few years back.

Please. You want to talk about scrubs, look no further than Turiaf. Every single one of the big men that the Celtics can bring off of the bench is more skilled than Ronny.

I like what Walton brings to the table offensively, but there's no queston that Posey is the most complete bench player on either team. The only advantage the Lakers have coming off the bench is their backcourt. The Celtics are weak at that spot, but House can be a factor in this series as a spot up shooter.

[Cookin Baskets]

-= original quote snipped =-


Please. You want to talk about scrubs, look no further than Turiaf. Every single one of the big men that the Celtics can bring off of the bench is more skilled than Ronny.

I like what Walton brings to the table offensively, but there's no queston that Posey is the most complete bench player on either team. The only advantage the Lakers have coming off the bench is their backcourt. The Celtics are weak at that spot, but House can be a factor in this series as a spot up shooter.

No way in hell who old P.J Brown,Pollard,Big Baby are you kidding me, Turiaf brings great energy to the lakers in fact hes one of my favorites off the bench hes the **** man coming through with that open heard surgergy good nba comeback some questioned if he could ever even play in the nba when he came in cause of condition.Great on the offensive rebounds. Turiaf/Powe is a good comparison though they both do the little things that help win.

Walton is more complete then Posey who is strictly a defender/3 pt. shooter while Walton can score,pass,rebound and hes not a bad defender himself..and he can shoot the three ball.

[vegas_runnin_rebel]

No way in hell who old P.J Brown,Pollard,Big Baby are you kidding me, Turiaf brings great energy to the lakers in fact hes one of my favorites off the bench hes the **** man coming through with that open heard surgergy good nba comeback some questioned if he could ever even play in the nba when he came in cause of condition.Great on the offensive rebounds. Turiaf/Powe is a good comparison though they both do the little things that help win.

First off, Pollard is in street clothes with a season ending injury. He's not in this discussion.

I know Lakers fan love Turiaf and he's overcome a lot just to play in the NBA... But the guy is a scrub. Period. If you can't admit that, you're not being honest with yourself.

Turiaf brings energy, physicality/toughness, and some shot blocking off of the bench, but that's as far as it goes. He's not a skilled basketball player at all. He's the Carribean Mark Madsen.

And Comparing Powe to Turiaf is an insult. Powe is undersized, but unlike Turiaf he's a fluid athlete and a very skilled player. Powe had 4 games this year where he scored 20 or more points (his season high was 27 points). And over the course of the regular season and playoffs, he has had a total of 24 games where he has scored in double digits. I wouldn't go as far to say that Powe will eventually be a starting PF in the NBA, but he has that kind of upside to his game. The same can't be said of Turiaf.

If you think for a second that Phil would rather have Turiaf over PJ Brown, you're kidding yourself. PJ's game isn't pretty to watch, but his post defense is still top notch, and he can knock down the midrange jumper.

As far as Big Baby vs Turiaf goes, it again comes down to skill. Big Baby has more talent in his double chin than Turiaf has in his whole body. Both guys rebound the ball well, but Big Baby has better hands, a softer touch around the basket, and is a much better passer.

Walton is more complete then Posey who is strictly a defender/3 pt. shooter while Walton can score,pass,rebound and hes not a bad defender himself..and he can shoot the three ball.

Posey is a great defender, an excellent rebounder (better than Walton) and a lights out three point shooter. Walton, while not a liability on defense is not going to look good in this series because of the matchup problems the Lakers have with Pierce and Garnett. As such, his contributions will primarily be on offense. So again, Posey will be the most complete reserve on both teams. He'll contribute on both ends of the floor better than any Lakers reserve with the possible exception of Sasha.

[eatyourchildren]

1. I hope no Celtics fan really thinks that the backcourt is a wash, just like I hope no Lakers fan thinks the frontcourt is a wash. It's pretty obvious the Lakers backcourt kills, and the Celtics frontcourt kills. Not that close on either account.

2. Who cares if each individual bench player on the Celtics is better than each individual bench player on the Lakers? Is it because you guys lack a cohesive, productive 2nd unit that can be put out there on the floor for 6-8 minutes at a time that you can't comprehend the value of it? Is that why you guys keep on arguing that Posey pwns all? I hope Doc Rivers puts a lineup of Cassell-House-Pose-Powe-Brown out there for more than 3 minutes, I really do.

3. Lakers have some of the best interior passing (if not the best) in the league. The Celtics have vaunted 3pt closeouts and great at the rim shot-changing. But do they have a good interior D that can get in the way of clean interior passing?

4. Kobe has tapped into the Jordan mode. I hope you aren't kidding yourselves that you can turn him into LeBron. 3 teams have already tried, don't get your hopes up.

[Gomes3PC]

1. Nobody, NOBODY thinks the backcourt is a wash. At the same token, every Celtics fan thinks that the frontcourt is anything but a significant advantage for Boston. KG on Gasol is a nightmare for LA on D. Perk wil abuse Odom in the paint for offensive boards. Vlad Rad will get his lunch packed for him by Pierce. And on D, one of Gasol/Odom will get shut down by KG, Pierce will do an underrated job on Vlad Rad/Sasha, and Perk will bully whoever he guards (you better hope the refs call ticky tack fouls- if he can have his way in the post, good luck).

2. The bench is an edge to the Lakers, but the homecourt advantage is an equal edge for the Celtics because it makes their bench players step up to outplay whichever bench they are facing. LA fans seem to forget we have homecourt, or simply assume they will take one in Boston and no way do the Celtics win on the road. This is a fallacy; we were the best road team in the NBA and we just beat Detroit on the road twice. I would not be surprised, and actually expect both teams to win on the others' court, thus neutralizing any Lakers 'stealing homecourt' nonsense.

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE stop hyping Ronny Turiaf. He is a scrub. He is not a good defender because he is slow as he!!. He is an inferior player to Powe in all aspects except height and # of open heart surgeries recovered from. I love his heart and attitude, but he's a scrub. He has an eFG% under 48% despite living in the paint, his 13% rebound rate is just bad (and a 7.5% offensive rebounding rate is hardly 'great'). His block rate is solid but he leaves his man too often to try to block shots, and also fouls at a pretty high clip as a result of the gambles.

Meanwhile, Powe has a 57% eFG, a 16.7% rebounding rate, and he draws fouls at a very good clip. He is not a shotblocker but moves his feet well and plays very physical in the paint, which means that he should be able to give Gasol some fits when he is in there.

The guys that scare me off the bench for LA are Vujacic and Farmar. Both are plus shooters and solid defenders. The C's bench has a penchant for leaving guys open from 3 at times, so they will have to be extra-diligent in this regard. Play off of Turiaf/Walton and go after Vujacic and Farmar. Nobody on the Lakers bench is much of a playmaker for others; Farmar's 20% assist rate is proof enough of that. Besides, with the short bench Doc is likely to play, I expect Rondo to face Farmar and Pierce/Posey on Vujacic. Those guys all do a pretty good job of locking up bench players they face.

3. Do we have guys in the paint who can disrupt interior passing? Uhmm, hi. My name is Kevin Garnett. I have Inspector Gadget-like arms that hinder many passes. I am pretty good at stopping penetration into the paint and sealing passing lanes. My friend Kendrick Perkins is also pretty good at bullying soft post players into staying out of the paint altogether and settling for jumpers.

LA's interior passing is a treat to watch, but Garnett is an even bigger treat to watch shut down passing and points in the paint. I expect him to seal off Odom most of the time and make him a nonfactor, and force LA to play a 2-man game with Bryant and Gasol, with KG helping on the weakside and daring Odom to shoot it.

4. For the love of god, Kobe is not Jordan. Stop this nonsense. He won 3 titles with the biggest force of nature in the paint behind him. He did nothing in the playoffs since then until his coach swindled a scoring big man for a rack of basketballs. He is a phenomenal player, but he is not and never will be Jordan. I fear Kobe more than Lebron, but he is not this unstoppable force of nature that Jordan was. Even if you shut down all his teammates, Jordan could beat you by himself. I still don't believe Kobe can do that. That being said, this LA team likely has as much or more talent than any of the squads MJ led, so it's not like I don't think Kobe can win the title vs. Boston.

And as for needing to blow out LA to win any of these games, I fully expect Boston to play in and win close games vs. the Lakers. They did it against Detroit and Cleveland, two teams that have far better defense, and in the 4th quarter it's all about making stops. If they can win close ones against teams with far superior defense and near-equal big time players (Billups, Lebron), I feel confident they can do it against an inconsistent defensive team like LA.

[grantlongforpresident]

How about those 16 assists? Isn't that the most in the finals since Magic?

Anyone still think fisher is better?


Also

1. Nobody, NOBODY thinks the backcourt is a wash.

Put me in the camp that says we do.

Allen<<Kobe
Rondo>>>Fisher

2. The bench is an edge to the Lakers

DON'T AGREE!!!

and finally,

-= original quote snipped =-

You are quite right....at this point Fisher is the better player

- Shut down Deron Williams (for most of the time)
- Championship experience
- Clutch player

It isnt close

That was funny.

[3pt %]

Rondo played pretty well (shooting was off), and the assist to t/o ratio is insane.

Lets not get too excited until we see how he plays in LA, against clevland and detroit he suffered for the first away from home game.

The lakers, during their massive run, also let Rondo completely penetrate. As in ll the way to the basket.

They gave him the shot and he consistently didn't take it. It seems the right thing to do with the assist to t/o ratio, but I think in LA we are going to need that god awful looking push shot/floater that he has.

[tlee324]

Rondo's better than Fisher in rebounding, passing, defending, and ballhandling... Fisher is better at shooting, and taking charges/flopping.

So yeah... Rondo's better.

I loved the 16 assists, too. He wasn't really looking to score at all, just involve everyone in the offense. It works.

[Kefa461]

Fun fact about Fisher: He had the second worst FG% in the paint of any player in the league in the regular season. Translation: When he gets to the hoop, he's going to miss. On the flip side, he's shooting what, 55% from 3 in the playoffs? What that means is that Rondo is going to have to really overplay him and force Fisher to put the ball on the floor.

As far as Rondo on offense vs Fisher goes...The only things that matter is whether Rondo can get in the paint and create for his teammates (he should be able to do it with ease), and whether he can make enough jump shots to make Fisher pay for doubling off of him and pestering Pierce and Garnett (doubtful, at least on the road).

On a side note, there's talk in LA that the Lakers will put Kobe on Rondo and try to guard Ray with Fisher. If that's the case, Ray has to really make the Lakers pay for guarding him with a much smaller player. Because if the Lakers can get away with putting Kobe on Rondo, Kobe is going to make a killing in the passing lanes and on steals when KG and Pierce have their backs turned.

By the way, Allen dropped 54 points in a game against the Jazz last season when he was being guarded primarily by Fisher.

If that is the case....Ray will eat Fisher up and Rondo should take it to the hoop and dish all night....Kobe should be on the pine with fouls.....I'd take it too him all night and let the refs blow the peas or not.....

Then counter with Cassell/House at the point for added point help.....