Where would KG rank alltime with a Finals MVP and title

[WesWesley]

Yeah its a small list because as we all know nobody won the DPOY award before the 80s (becasue nobody could play defense and so nobody won the award).

I honestly wonder how many DPOY and Finals MVPs Russell would have. Ill bet he would have more than 1 MVP,DPOY,Finals MVP in the same yr.

I like KG but how again does he leapfrog the following with a ring?

Pettit
Barkley
K Malone
Pippen
Hondo
Baylor
Mikan
Barry
Mosses Malone
DRob
Isiah
Stockton

The only players on that list I see that are better than KG if he wins a ring are Hondo, Baylor, Moses Malone, DRob, and potentially Isiah.

Kevin Garnett is amazing, and his loyalty to the Timberwolves should not go unnoticed.

Here is a franchise that got lucky in drafting him, and consistently failed to put a decent supporting staff around him. The one season where people agreed that he had a decent team, he was able to take that team to the Western Conference Finals.

Finally on the Celtics KG has had what is considered a very good supporting cast, and he's in the Finals.

He's a rare dominant two way player, who's size to skill ratio is matched by nobody in the league. Not even close.

He's so long that his arms disrupt passing lanes. He's almost an impossible guard with his fundamentals and inside outside game.

People don't realize how strong KG is too. How do you think he rebounds the ball so well? He's also a freak run and jump athlete. He can handle the ball, and has a pretty good jump shot.

Top it off, I don't think I've seen many better passing PFs ever. His ability to pass out of the double is matched by nobody in the league.

Karl Malone was a good passer, but KG was better.

We seem to forget that KG has been putting up great numbers for years. Just by watching him play, you know that if he had as good a team as Malone, Pippen, Barkley, or pretty much anyone on that list, that he would have had more success. Most of the guys on that list would have whined their way out of KGs situation in Minny, but he stayed true.

[NO-KG-AI]

Who before the 80's would have MVP and DPOY's??? Wilt? Russell? Jabbar?

Who already has DPOY and MVP? Hakeem, Jordan off the top of my head....D-Rob get a DPOY??

Anyway around it, that's absolute elite company.

And yea, Minnesota was horrible, those teams he got into the playoffs were trash.

[shawngoat23]

Maybe top 25. Especially if he dominates the playoffs.

His biggest knock to date is that he doesn't step up in the biggest moments. It's not entirely deserved, but he has a chance to put such criticism away.

[penbeast0]

Pettit
Barkley
K Malone
Pippen
Hondo
Baylor
Mikan
Barry
Mosses Malone
DRob
Isiah
Stockton

On this list, I'd rank him ahead of Isiah, Stockton, Barry, and Barkley already.

With a Title as the main man, I could move him ahead of Pippen and KMalone.

That leaves Moses, Robinson, Hondo, Mikan, Baylor and Pettit.

Moses stays ahead, he was too good and carried too many teams too far for KG to match this easily.


David Robinson was a better player both ways at his peak but didn't step it up in the playoffs and shorter peak. If KG won finals MVP or his numbers actually go up in the playoffs (I've never looked), I'd put him ahead of the Admiral with a title.

Havlicek is a similar player to KG but at a less important position but with a much longer history of titles, have to still give Hondo the edge even with a title for KG but it's arguable at least.

Mikan, Pettit, Baylor . . . older players.

Mikan flat out dominated the whole league for a 4 or 5 year stretch winning titles and owning the league like Shaq did in his prime. His game wouldn't necessarily translate to modern times but you can only compare his impact in his day, he is still the superior career.

Pettit and Baylor have very similar career values; Pettit has a slight edge both statistically and in the judgement of their peers (MVP shares, etc.). Both have games that would translate to today's game except for FG%s slightly on the low side (but both get to the line constantly so TS% isn't bad). Pettit was a 6'10 PF rebounding machine with an outside shooting game, Baylor a 6'6 do-it-all highlight film SF. They were both a bit more dominant than KG in their primes and Pettit also won a title . . . against Russell and the Celtics no less . . . Edge Pettit, probably Baylor too though it is closer.

[mhd]

Pettit
Barkley
K Malone
Pippen
Hondo
Baylor
Mikan
Barry
Mosses Malone
DRob
Isiah
Stockton

On this list, I'd rank him ahead of Isiah, Stockton, Barry, and Barkley already.

With a Title as the main man, I could move him ahead of Pippen and KMalone.

That leaves Moses, Robinson, Hondo, Mikan, Baylor and Pettit.

Moses stays ahead, he was too good and carried too many teams too far for KG to match this easily.


David Robinson was a better player both ways at his peak but didn't step it up in the playoffs and shorter peak. If KG won finals MVP or his numbers actually go up in the playoffs (I've never looked), I'd put him ahead of the Admiral with a title.

Havlicek is a similar player to KG but at a less important position but with a much longer history of titles, have to still give Hondo the edge even with a title for KG but it's arguable at least.

Mikan, Pettit, Baylor . . . older players.

Mikan flat out dominated the whole league for a 4 or 5 year stretch winning titles and owning the league like Shaq did in his prime. His game wouldn't necessarily translate to modern times but you can only compare his impact in his day, he is still the superior career.

Pettit and Baylor have very similar career values; Pettit has a slight edge both statistically and in the judgement of their peers (MVP shares, etc.). Both have games that would translate to today's game except for FG%s slightly on the low side (but both get to the line constantly so TS% isn't bad). Pettit was a 6'10 PF rebounding machine with an outside shooting game, Baylor a 6'6 do-it-all highlight film SF. They were both a bit more dominant than KG in their primes and Pettit also won a title . . . against Russell and the Celtics no less . . . Edge Pettit, probably Baylor too though it is closer.

How in the world would you rank him ahead of Isiah? Zeke won two titles as the main man. He never wavered in the clutch (something KG always does). Zeke beat showtime. Zeke beat a really good Blazer team. Zeke is easily above KG in all-time rankings.

Regarding Stockton, its no shame losing to MJ twice in the finals. Again, Stockton was mucho clutch. KG has never been clutch (See airball against the Cavs). To be an all-timer, you have to be clutch. KG has never shown anything to be clutch.

[Worm Guts]

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How in the world would you rank him ahead of Isiah? Zeke won two titles as the main man. He never wavered in the clutch (something KG always does). Zeke beat showtime. Zeke beat a really good Blazer team. Zeke is easily above KG in all-time rankings.

Regarding Stockton, its no shame losing to MJ twice in the finals. Again, Stockton was mucho clutch. KG has never been clutch (See airball against the Cavs). To be an all-timer, you have to be clutch. KG has never shown anything to be clutch.

KG has been in the top 3 in the MVP voting 4 times, neither Thomas nor Stockton were ever in the top 5. Stockton was never even the best player on his own team.
I wouldn't say KG is clutch but to say he has never shown anything to be clutch isnt true. Game 7 against Sacremento he put 32 and 21 with 14 straight points in 4th quarter.

[HarlemHeat37]

exactly..Garnett has been considered by many to be the best player in the NBA in 2004..usually a top 3 candidate for the years before that..Isiah or Stockton were never as good as KG in their primes..

[Warspite]

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KG has been in the top 3 in the MVP voting 4 times, neither Thomas nor Stockton were ever in the top 5. Stockton was never even the best player on his own team.
I wouldn't say KG is clutch but to say he has never shown anything to be clutch isnt true. Game 7 against Sacremento he put 32 and 21 with 14 straight points in 4th quarter.

This argument only holds water if the 2 players played at the same time. Unless you believe KG would have similar MVP votes against MJ, Magic, Bird, ect. If you believe KG is better than all but 2 of MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Mosses, DrJ, Charles and the 1 yr peak player that always shows up then go ahead with your argument.

It just upsets me when level of compettition is not taken into account. KG would never get an MVP if he played 10yrs earlier and most likely his teams would never have made the playoffs. Even the 04 T Wolves would win less than 40 games in 1989.

Give me a real argument instead of saying "KG played great and was a good person." KG has 20k pts and 10k rebs hes in an elite class. I dont much differance between KG and Bob McAdoo to be honest.

the whole Zeke slight has more to do with Zeke the coach and GM than the player. We all know the voters hated Zeke for helping build the salary cap structure that we have today and for his role in making the NBA as great as it is. It is pretty crazy how Zeke can lead his team from the dregs to the title and ending Birds title runs and he recieved few MVP votes. I guess if you dont know basketball or you werent there you could believe Isiah is a poor mans Chauncy Billups.

[NO-KG-AI]

Zeke played with really good players, KG didnt. KG gets really good players.... what happens?? omg look at that, he's in the finals?? Must be coincidence!! he just got lucky that's all.

[Worm Guts]

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This argument only holds water if the 2 players played at the same time. Unless you believe KG would have similar MVP votes against MJ, Magic, Bird, ect. If you believe KG is better than all but 2 of MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Mosses, DrJ, Charles and the 1 yr peak player that always shows up then go ahead with your argument.

It just upsets me when level of compettition is not taken into account. KG would never get an MVP if he played 10yrs earlier and most likely his teams would never have made the playoffs. Even the 04 T Wolves would win less than 40 games in 1989.

Give me a real argument instead of saying "KG played great and was a good person." KG has 20k pts and 10k rebs hes in an elite class. I dont much differance between KG and Bob McAdoo to be honest.

the whole Zeke slight has more to do with Zeke the coach and GM than the player. We all know the voters hated Zeke for helping build the salary cap structure that we have today and for his role in making the NBA as great as it is. It is pretty crazy how Zeke can lead his team from the dregs to the title and ending Birds title runs and he recieved few MVP votes. I guess if you dont know basketball or you werent there you could believe Isiah is a poor mans Chauncy Billups.

KG is 3-4 inches taller than McAdoo, better rebounder, better defender, better passer, not as good of scorer. They don't compare very well at all.

Isaiah Thomas might have been better than KG, I don't know, but I think there's a pretty legitimate argument that KG was better based on numbers and accolades. Say what you want about the era but KG took an MVP during the primes of Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan.

I don't see an argument for Stockton being better than KG,especially if KG wins a championship. Stockton was the 2nd best player on a team that never won a championship. KG's never had opportunity to be the 2nd best player on his team.

[HarlemHeat37]

that's underrating this era..

Shaq, Duncan and Kobe could easily all end up being top 10 players of all-time at the ends of their careers..Garnett was ALWAYS ranked with these guys in his prime..

KG's best year is 24.2 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 5 APG, 2.2 BPG, 1.5 SPG, 49.9% FG at an 89.0 pace..those are monstrous stats..that year he had a good supporting cast and went to the conference finals, he put up similar numbers to those in the playoffs..

[KNICKS1970]

that's underrating this era..

Shaq, Duncan and Kobe could easily all end up being top 10 players of all-time at the ends of their careers..Garnett was ALWAYS ranked with these guys in his prime..

KG's best year is 24.2 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 5 APG, 2.2 BPG, 1.5 SPG, 49.9% FG at an 89.0 pace..those are monstrous stats..that year he had a good supporting cast and went to the conference finals, he put up similar numbers to those in the playoffs..

For my money, Shaq and Duncan are already there. And Kobe could get there with another title.

Right now, I would rank Garnett ahead of Stockton, but not Isiah.

[Warspite]

that's underrating this era..

Shaq, Duncan and Kobe could easily all end up being top 10 players of all-time at the ends of their careers..Garnett was ALWAYS ranked with these guys in his prime..

KG's best year is 24.2 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 5 APG, 2.2 BPG, 1.5 SPG, 49.9% FG at an 89.0 pace..those are monstrous stats..that year he had a good supporting cast and went to the conference finals, he put up similar numbers to those in the playoffs..

McAdoos best yr is 34.5ppg, 14.1rpg, 2,2 apg, 2.1bpg 1.1spg 51.2%
Barrys best yr is 35.6ppg 9.2rpg, 3.6apg 45.1%
Isiahs best yr is 21.2ppg 4.5rpg 13.6apg .5bpg 2.5spg 45.8%
Pettits best yr is 31.1ppg 18.1rpg 3.7apg 45.0%
Barkleys best yr 27.6ppg 10.1rpg 4.2apg 57.0%
K Malones best yr 31.0ppg 11.1rpg 2.8apg .7bpg 1.4spg 56.2%
M Malones best yr 31.1ppg 14.7rpg 1.8apg 1.5bpg 1spg 51.9%
Hondos best yr 28.9ppg 9.0rpg 7.5apg 45.0%

Only Mc Adoo and Mosses won MVPs in those yrs. KG is a great great player. No doubt top 25 IMHO I just believe he moves up faster as memories fade vs his actual play. Just because you cant name 25 HoF players doesnt mean KG is a top 25 player.

[Jordan23Forever]

Warspite, not to be cute or offensive in any way, but why do you spell Moses Malone's name as "Mosses" all the time? Makes me laugh. I read it phonetically and picture Dawsonia.