Question: Trade #2 Pick to the Bulls?

[CoolD]

Would the Heat trade Wade? Maybe. Would the Heat trade a 26 year old Wade?. The chances of that happening are very very low. More like zero percent. I could see Wade getting traded after he is 30 something years old. The NBA is a business, and guys get traded all the time, but I would definite like to keep Wade as long as possible and hopefully never plays for another team. But to think the Heat will trade Wade, even if some think he is injury prone is pretty far fetched, Wade is a 26 year old player, that is a superstar in all forms, in and out the court.

Jordan hit his prime after 28 or 29 years old. The thing about Wade, the guy hasn't even hit his prime. He has already delivered a title, maybe the most exciting player to watch, a great person in the community, great teammate, the idea of trade Wade right now is pretty far fetched, if ever.

[Lane1974]

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I think you likely know (or should anyway) that Bulls fans on this board thought that article (Wade/#2 for #1) was the very definition of trash. I wrote something like the editor should be fired for allowing that level of stupidity to be published. Trust me, the view from the other side looks just as bad. Many stories from the Miami papers seem to be some odd and completely unrealistic angles to get Rose even though it seems he would be bound for Chicago. Just because the papers write that crap, we don't believe Heat fans swallow it up and think the same way.

It seems think a lot of you are at least a little bit chippy with Duck as if he's one of the lame Chicago sportswriters...he's just posing a theoretical question for discussion based on an assumption (Riley no likey Beasley) that's been widely reported.

the difference is, Rose to the Bulls maybe probable but it isn't a certainty, nor is it inevitable. He isn't a LeBron or Shaq or Duncan, someone clearly head and shoulders above #2 and the GM picking at #1 should be immediately fired if he doesn't pick him. The idea of him coming in as the #2 pick may be unlikely but not unfathomable. The notion of trading Wade is just that - a notion, not based on anything other than the whim of some idiot who asked Wade a question about being traded to the Bulls - probably because Wade is FROM Chicago, is working out in Chicago, was speaking to a reporter from Chicago.

[dflash3]

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I think you likely know (or should anyway) that Bulls fans on this board thought that article (Wade/#2 for #1) was the very definition of trash. I wrote something like the editor should be fired for allowing that level of stupidity to be published. Trust me, the view from the other side looks just as bad. Many stories from the Miami papers seem to be some odd and completely unrealistic angles to get Rose even though it seems he would be bound for Chicago. Just because the papers write that crap, we don't believe Heat fans swallow it up and think the same way.

It seems think a lot of you are at least a little bit chippy with Duck as if he's one of the lame Chicago sportswriters...he's just posing a theoretical question for discussion based on an assumption (Riley no likey Beasley) that's been widely reported.

I know Bulls fans think the article was trash, but its the fact that some posters keep referring back to the subject that is irritating me. I know Duck knows the trade is just a hypothetical situation, but its the fact that he decided to start a thread about it on the Heat forum that got to me.

I wouldn't have minded if it was started on the Bulls board. If a topic of discussion that has upset some Heat fans is visited it's only expected that some posters won't be keen to the idea.

And than when people acknowledge that they understand why the Heat wouldn't do the trade, but than proceed to keep coming up with proposals and wonder why Heat fans aren't accepting the idea it just starts to get annoying.

But, there's no harm done.

[Wingy]

Just saying there's many, many great Bulls posters (such as Duck) that don't attach the opinions of the Miami papers to the Miami fans. Seems like many here are attaching the shotty Chicago paper opinions to the Chicago fans. We don't believe in that garbage.

The premise of the thread was...let's assume this is the landscape, let's discuss. No one is saying we think this is truth or what should happen...it's classic RealGM stuff...discussing the theoretical.

I'm one who believes in the theory that Riley actually likes Beasley (and he should) and may be trying to cast some sort of negative light on him so that we don't select him. I mean, Riles knows the game and knows talent....if Riles doesn't want a guy that talented...what does it say about that player? Must be something wrong with him. But I don't think there is, it might just be an angle. I think Riley would be nuts to pass on Beasley, I think he's a better fit than Rose.

At the end of the day, we're both getting terrific young players.
I haven't really been on this board much since our playoff meeting. I foresee many more playoff meetings in the near future.

[Wingy]

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I know Bulls fans think the article was trash, but its the fact that some posters keep referring back to the subject that is irritating me. I know Duck knows the trade is just a hypothetical situation, but its the fact that he decided to start a thread about it on the Heat forum that got to me.

I wouldn't have minded if it was started on the Bulls board. If a topic of discussion that has upset some Heat fans is visited it's only expected that some posters won't be keen to the idea.

It honestly doesn't look bad at all to me. That's why you post it on the other team's board to see it from the other perspective. Many people here were talking like we would be offering just plain role players...I even think Duck was underselling some of our guys out of respect. Don't forget Tyrus, Noah & Thabo are all lottery picks who have plenty of untapped potential left in them.

And than when people acknowledge that they understand why the Heat wouldn't do the trade, but than proceed to keep coming up with proposals and wonder why Heat fans aren't accepting the idea it just starts to get annoying.

I kinda see, but I think a lot of the responses missed out on the most pivotal part of the discussion. Most people weren't tuning into the entire backdrop of the discussion...assuming Riley doesn't like Beasley and won't use the #2 on him. Yet many people went immediately for "well, we're keeping #2 because Beasley is great...Riley's opinion be damned even though he's the one deciding."

In the context of reality in which no one actually knows Riley's true opinion on Beasley, yes it's completely understandable why you wouldn't want to trade the pick. But for the purposes of this thread and discussions sake...if you knew Riley wasn't going to use it on Beasley...a potential Bulls package could be very attractive with all of our young talent.

But, there's no harm done.

Agreed

[Heat11114]

Don't forget Tyrus, Noah & Thabo are all lottery picks who have plenty of untapped potential left in them.

The two words you don't want to hear in a trade... former "lottery picks" (ie they're nothing now, but hey we drafted them high so expect big things) and potential (ie, they're young and have shown nothing, but damn are they athletic).

[Wingy]

Don't forget Tyrus, Noah & Thabo are all lottery picks who have plenty of untapped potential left in them.

The two words you don't want to hear in a trade... former "lottery picks" (ie they're nothing now, but hey we drafted them high so expect big things) and potential (ie, they're young and have shown nothing, but damn are they athletic).

We're talking about guys who have yet to even begin their 2nd and 3rd years and have already shown a lot of great flashes. Why would you not talk about potential?? Esp. when our franchise has done a piss poor job of developing them (prob. 90% of our fans would agree)? If you had Riley get ahold of these kids.......damn.

[Heat11114]

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We're talking about guys who have yet to even begin their 2nd and 3rd years and have already shown a lot of great flashes. Why would you not talk about potential?? Esp. when our franchise has done a piss poor job of developing them (prob. 90% of our fans would agree)? If you had Riley get ahold of these kids.......damn.

Check the track record on lottery picks, especially those outside the top 5. From picks 5-14 there are more players out of the league than all-stars, there are twice as many guys who are bench players than starters+all-stars. Being a lottery pick doesn't mean anything in itself.

You guys are going to overvalue your players far more than we undervalue them. Obviously we don't see them as much as you, but at the same time their value is much more likely to end up closer to what we think then you guys think. It's the same way some of our posters look at Dorell Wright.

[dflash3]

^^I'd much rather trade Beasley for Mayo and other players included in the deal by the team that drafts him than for the players offered by the Bulls.

I believe Mayo has just as much upside as Beasley or Rose, but playing in the USC system didn't allow him to properly display his talents.

Yes, players like Noah and TT are lottery picks but just because a player was picked high doesn't automatically make him in the same class as other talented draft classes. Its not what position or year the players were picked that makes a player appealing but what they can bring to the table.

Just throwing around the word lottery pick isn't enough to convince people to give up a potential franchise player for them. Bargnani for instance may have been the number 1 pick, but I don't hold him to the same standards as players like Oden or Durant.

And while the Bulls are giving up players with a lot of potential the reason they want to give them up for Beasley is the same reason Heat fans don't want to give him up.

[Wingy]

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Check the track record on lottery picks, especially those outside the top 5. From picks 5-14 there are more players out of the league than all-stars, there are twice as many guys who are bench players than starters+all-stars. Being a lottery pick doesn't mean anything in itself.

You guys are going to overvalue your players far more than we undervalue them. Obviously we don't see them as much as you, but at the same time their value is much more likely to end up closer to what we think then you guys think. It's the same way some of our posters look at Dorell Wright.

Tyrus is a top 2 pick (yes, I know he was 4, but Viktor Kryhapa doesn't make up the difference to me) and you've seen what he can do....he had some blocks with ridiculous, uncanny timing vs. you guys in the playoffs. He has not been given a chance in Chicago...the coaches just doled out entitlement minutes left and right to Ben Dong Wallace.

Thabo did a great job on Wade (injured) in the playoffs....but even so...DWade is one of the only true superstars in the league IMO and him at 70% is better than the vast majority of guards.

Noah just came off a solid rookie campaign and everything seems to point to a long, extremely productive career.

Yet..at the end of the day, I understand what you're saying. I was thinking something eerily similar, whoa. I was actually going to use Dorrell and Cook as an example. I agree, I most certainly value them more as a Bulls fan. I def. think all 3 are going to be excellent players and would excel (defense is a forte for all 3) with a great coach like Riley.

[dflash3]

Not to mention this is a stars league. The Bulls may have a solid cast of players but they are missing a superstar to take them to the next level. They should have been willing to give up more for players like Kobe and KG.

And while the argument that it doesn't take superstars to win a championship is made by providing the Pistons as an example its important to point out that the starting five were all borderline All Stars.

[Lane1974]

trading Wade for them doesn't make the Heat closer to the championship, which should be the point Riley goes by.

[Wingy]

^^I'd much rather trade Beasley for Mayo and other players included in the deal by the team that drafts him than for the players offered by the Bulls.

I believe Mayo has just as much upside as Beasley or Rose, but playing in the USC system didn't allow him to properly display his talents.

I don't see it that way, but that's simply my opinion. That view is completely legit...see...that's the kind of thing we are wondering about. Do Heat fans really value Mayo, etc. that highly? Looks like yes.

Yes, players like Noah and TT are lottery picks but just because a player was picked high doesn't automatically make him in the same class as other talented draft classes. Its not what position or year the players were picked that makes a player appealing but what they can bring to the table.

Just throwing around the word lottery pick isn't enough to convince people to give up a potential franchise player for them. Bargnani for instance may have been the number 1 pick, but I don't hold him to the same standards as players like Oden or Durant.

And while the Bulls are giving up players with a lot of potential the reason they want to give them up for Beasley is the same reason Heat fans don't want to give him up.

Again....it's all assuming Beasley is off the table. Assume Riley just flat out doesn't like Beasley and doesn't want him. I'm not saying TT/Noah/Bulls other pieces are in the same class as Beasley....not at all, no way, uh uh. I'm saying they are in the class of the Heat's other options IMO (ie Mayo, packages they could get elsewhere). Running out a lineup such as:

Hinrich, Wade, Marion, Tyrus, Noah is a sick athletic lineup that can really, really lock it down on defense. It's also a young core that can compete for years to come and you'd surely dump a bad contract in the process. Is it really that bad...assuming Riley wouldn't want Beasley?? (and yes I understand you'd prefer OJ...but in general...is it really a bad option?)

[dflash3]

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Again....it's all assuming Beasley is off the table. Assume Riley just flat out doesn't like Beasley and doesn't want him. I'm not saying TT/Noah/Bulls other pieces are in the same class as Beasley....not at all, no way, uh uh. I'm saying they are in the class of the Heat's other options IMO (ie Mayo, packages they could get elsewhere). Running out a lineup such as:

Hinrich, Wade, Marion, Tyrus, Noah is a sick athletic lineup that can really, really lock it down on defense. It's also a young core that can compete for years to come and you'd surely dump a bad contract in the process. Is it really that bad...assuming Riley wouldn't want Beasley?? (and yes I understand you'd prefer OJ...but in general...is it really a bad option?)

No not a bad option but certainly not the best option. Knowing Riley he is going to be looking for the best deal possible if he is looking to deal Beasley and not make a bone headed move like Heisley.

Not saying the offer is mediocre, because it does make the Heat line up solid but why settle for second best.

[Wingy]

trading Wade for them doesn't make the Heat closer to the championship, which should be the point Riley goes by.

The point of the thread and what I'm talking about is trading your #2 for them....not Wade. It would be surrounding Wade with these guys...not trading him for them.

Not to mention this is a stars league. The Bulls may have a solid cast of players but they are missing a superstar to take them to the next level. They should have been willing to give up more for players like Kobe and KG.

And while the argument that it doesn't take superstars to win a championship is made by providing the Pistons as an example its important to point out that the starting five were all borderline All Stars.

You'll never hear me argue against that point. Pistons were a fluke.

The Kobe/KG thing? I'm so sick of hearing that junk. (Now imagine yourself earlier in this thread). Kobe himself supposedly nixed a Chicago trade that was agreed to in principle. KG? Chandler, Deng and #2 were reportedly offered....if MN were smart, they could be running Chandler, Deng, Roy and Aldridge out there.

Again, it's assuming Riley doesn't want Beasley. I AGREE with you. The smart move would be to just sit tight and draft Beasley. IF Riley has lost his mind like some people are suggesting and disagrees.....that's what we're talking about here.

[Wingy]

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No not a bad option but certainly not the best option. Knowing Riley he is going to be looking for the best deal possible if he is looking to deal Beasley and not make a bone headed move like Heisley.

Not saying the offer is mediocre, because it does make the Heat line up solid but why settle for second best.

It just might be 2nd best. However, I don't see many teams out there able to offer our combo talent/youth as Duck previously stated. Perhaps Atlanta...but maybe they're really high on their playoff battle w/Boston and want to sit tight. There's likely others I'm not thinking of off the top of my head, but I'm sure a Bulls package would be right up there.

[BBallFreak]

See, this is the same thing I've been talking about on the Bulls board. You're offering up nice guys, but we can do better if we're looking to trade that pick, and I don't personally think we are...

[GameTime_3]

I Think Riley would want a Sure "ALL Star" and Role player for The pick. Beasley is regarded as the top player in alot of Draft Boards around the league. So your basically Trading the 1st overall. Either way, Riley is going to keep the pick and Have a future star at a salary of 4 million dollars.

[Wingy]

See, this is the same thing I've been talking about on the Bulls board. You're offering up nice guys, but we can do better if we're looking to trade that pick, and I don't personally think we are...

I don't either. I think you take Beasley and go home smiling. Second most likely would be to trade down with MN to grab Mayo and an asset.

What other kinds of packages do you think you might be able to get if a trade were considered and Riley wants to go the more veteran route?

Something built around Brand? Dirk perhaps if Dallas wants to blow it up? What do you think might possibly be out there?

[GameTime_3]

2#Beasley- Marion,Banks For Dirk,Stackhouse,2009 First(top 3 protected).