Why does everyone want to trade Marvin Williams?

[Hawk4Playoffs]

I am curious why everyone wants to trade Marvin Williams. He is only 21 years old. He has a lot of upside. His numbers have gone up each year. Why trade him? I think it would be best if we kept him around for another year.

Marvin Williams
1st year 8.5 PPG / 4.8 RPG
2nd year 13.1 PPG / 5.3 RPG
3rd year 14.8 PPG / 5.8 RPG
4th year ?????

T-Mac
1st year 7.0 PPG / 4.2 RPG
2nd year 9.3 PPG / 5.7 RPG
3rd year 15.4 PPG / 6.3 RPG
4th year 26.8 PPG / 7.5 RPG

I am not saying Marvin is going to be like T-mac... but some players need some experience in the league to fully mature. I think Marvin will have a better year than he did last year. I think he will put up 16 - 18 points and grab 6-8 rebounds. I think he is capable of doing that. What do you guys think?

[mattlanta]

That's exactly why a lot of people wanna trade him. He's young, and he's got somewhat of a bright future ahead of him. He is and will continue to be solid throughout his career, but people feel that he has a lot of trade value just for being what he is. Not to mention Marvin is an expiring contract.

[evildallas]

There are even more examples of players who taper off after year 3, you can never assume the big breakout that T-Mac experienced.

As for why trade him:

1) some of us believe that he doesn't have the drive and killer instinct to ever become elite.
2) his rookie deal is ending which means either committing long term or cutting bait. There are financial realities that will need to be faced.
3) Josh Smith and Josh Childress are RFAs so the only players who could be dealt pre-July 1st are Marvin, Bibby, Joe, Al, Acie, or Zaza. Joe leaves a bigger hole than what we get in any trade for him, same for Al. Acie and Zaza don't really fetch much. That's leave Marvin and Bibby as the only real pieces we have to try and improve our team. Expect more S&T deals to be brought up once July arrives, but pre-draft the trades often contain picks which prevent the use of the RFAs.
4) A lot of us feel that we aren't a title contender as constructed, you have to give to get. Marvin should still have enough promise to be desired by other teams.
5) Marvin is replaceable many ways (Childress, Joe sliding to the 3, some people think Josh Smith moving to the 3 (not I), or with a replacement player (Tayshaun Prince, Joe Alexander, whomever) which makes him more flexible in trade situations. We have less options with moving Bibby (start Law, acquire a PG). A case could be made that Marvin's spot is the easiest place to improve the team's performance.

[lunarblues]

because people think that him leaving will help them heal from not having chris paul.

[killbuckner]

I don't think that Marvin is ever going to be a top 10 SF in the league and if he still has significant trade value around the league then hell yes I am open to moving him.

[td00]

Before you trade Marvin, you have to find out his value, and you don't find out until you dangle him out there.

While he will continue to improve, and he could have a breakout year this year, comparing him to T-Mac isn't that powerful. So far, T-Mac hasn't even won a playoff series, and here he is in the league with an enormous contract and a franchise center on his side.

While Garnett finally is getting somewhere in the playoffs, T-Mac and the Rockets very well could next year as well. But so far, T-Mac is someone who hasn't made his teammates that much better.

Now, if I could get Tayshaun or Ron Artest or even Caron Butler for Marvin, I think I would make such a move to bring more intangibles to our starting lineup. We already have to get the Joshes signed, and it may show that Chills is a better fit for this starting 5 than Marvin.

I like that fact that Marvin is improving, but if you are going to step up your play next year, you have to focus on the areas of weakness. I think its offensive rebounding, loose balls, and a 3-pt threat. While Chills can help in 2 of those areas, Marvin might be better next year at possibly one of them (3pt threat).

We need to improve both our bench and starting 5 if that is possible. We have plenty of youth, so we need more veteran leadership.

With the need to sign both Smoove and Chills, Marvin may just be an afterthought for now. Sund has his hands full coming into this season and I really don't expect a big splash. The coaching issue will be the biggest news to me outside the Joshes. Those issues alone make for a chaotic summer.
I wonder how much Sund values Marvin?

[HarpStarkOakEw]

can the increase in point production be caused by the trading of al harrington and him being promoted?

i only watched the hawks when they play the knicks and during their playoff series. I feel like josh childress outplayed marvin on both ends and the investment should be in josh not marvin.

When you guys would make a run marvin would come down and take a quick shot before even squaring up. I know hes young but it doesnt seem like his mental is on the same page with the physical.

[Jack wore plaid]

Trading Marvin sucks. He could blow up like Jermaine Oneal did when the Blazers traded him for Dale Davis (an all star at the time). Then again he could top out at a 15 point a night guy that doesn;t really help you win in the long run.

Atlanta would more than likely be better if they traded him for a defensive center and some more pieces.

I'm not proposing this, but something like Joel Przybilla, Martell Webster and #13 for Marvin Williams makes the Hawks a lot better. Przybilla allows Horford to slide over to his natural possition, Smoove to play the SF spot, and both Childress and Webster can back up the 2 and 3 spots. Webster gives you a good 3 point shooter who is also athletic and #13 could get you another piece you need.

A trade like that helps the Hawks. Then again IF Marvin blows up and becomes an all star with the team you traded him too that would suck. Then again if Webster or the player at #13 does the same thing that would be great

[Rip2137]

If he remains the 4th option on our offense then he need to be moved. If they are going to use him as the second option offensively(where i believe he would be a 20+ PPG scorer) then keep him. We aren't going to use him as a 2nd option though. I think its hindering is development and it doesn't allow the team to be its best.

I like marvin Williams and think he is going to be a VERY good player. So I am not for just giving him away like some of the horrid trades people offer around here, but at the same time, I am open to trading ANYONE on our team if it makes the team better. If its a fair trade that gets our team better then fine. Otherwise, you keep him. He is a 21 year old averaging 15 and 6 as a lower option on offense. Those are good numbers even if people around here don't want to admit it.

[dms269]

Trading Marvin sucks. He could blow up like Jermaine Oneal did when the Blazers traded him for Dale Davis (an all star at the time). Then again he could top out at a 15 point a night guy that doesn;t really help you win in the long run.

Atlanta would more than likely be better if they traded him for a defensive center and some more pieces.

I'm not proposing this, but something like Joel Przybilla, Martell Webster and #13 for Marvin Williams makes the Hawks a lot better. Przybilla allows Horford to slide over to his natural possition, Smoove to play the SF spot, and both Childress and Webster can back up the 2 and 3 spots. Webster gives you a good 3 point shooter who is also athletic and #13 could get you another piece you need.

A trade like that helps the Hawks. Then again IF Marvin blows up and becomes an all star with the team you traded him too that would suck. Then again if Webster or the player at #13 does the same thing that would be great

The problem is the Smith at SF spot. His skill set is not the same as a traditional sf. His range just isn't there and that is one of the biggest things Marvin haters say is that he doesn't have any range. Pushing smith out there means we are encouraging him to take those 3's which he doesn't make.

[tontoz]

we might be able to get back more than Marvin is actually worth in a trade due to the perceived potential that he has because he is young. Having watched him for 3 years i don't think his potential is that high.

We need more 3 pt shooting and the logical place to have it is the wing opposit JJ. Marvin could develop it but i would have no problem trading him for someone who already has 3 pt range.

[Skar]

Marvin is the main reason we got to game 7 when everybody else pretty much got shut down. Marvin has earn his spot here in Atlanta.

[ATLfan]

because people think that him leaving will help them heal from not having chris paul.

[JoshB914]

I want to deal Marvin because I don't think he is or will be a good player in this league. However, because of his youth and draft position his value is still high enough to get something for him.

[atl_fan]

Keep him for one more year and if he doesn't improve, sign and trade him.

[mattlanta]

Keep him for one more year and if he doesn't improve, sign and trade him.

Think about what you're saying. Keep him for one more year and see what he does, and if he sucks, sign and trade him? If he does not improve this year, his trade value will not be as high as it is now. Even more so because he will be asking for a long term contract and more money.

I don't really know if we should trade Marvin. I'm not saying we certainly should. I haven't lost all hope in him, but I really want the Hawks to get a better bench and team overall, and if trading Marvin is the thing to do that, then by all means, do it.

[td00]

Out of our starters, I would like to see upgrades at 2 spots minimum:

PG - Bibby is just here for the interim
SF - Marvin does not have the range he needs

If Marvin could guard Pierce/Kobe/LeBron I would say keep him, but he just isn't that player.

We need to see what we can do to get better than the 37 wins/3 playoff wins we produced. Like Orlando, you want to keep progressing each year in the playoffs. Orlando did that this year, but they aren't satisfied.

Their only non-tradeables are Howard & Lewis. The rest is up for auction.

We need to think like this as well. Never be satisfied with a mini-playoff run. We need a team capable of getting 16 wins after the regular season.

So far, we have a team capable of 3 wins. There is much room for improvement.

[NDaATL]

I am curious why everyone wants to trade Marvin Williams. He is only 21 years old. He has a lot of upside. His numbers have gone up each year. Why trade him? I think it would be best if we kept him around for another year.

Marvin Williams
1st year 8.5 PPG / 4.8 RPG
2nd year 13.1 PPG / 5.3 RPG
3rd year 14.8 PPG / 5.8 RPG
4th year ?????

T-Mac
1st year 7.0 PPG / 4.2 RPG
2nd year 9.3 PPG / 5.7 RPG
3rd year 15.4 PPG / 6.3 RPG
4th year 26.8 PPG / 7.5 RPG

I am not saying Marvin is going to be like T-mac... but some players need some experience in the league to fully mature. I think Marvin will have a better year than he did last year. I think he will put up 16 - 18 points and grab 6-8 rebounds. I think he is capable of doing that. What do you guys think?

Just because their numbers are similar means nothing. Tmac had so much talent it was unreal, even in Toronto. It was obvious he was on the verge of exploding. You don't see that with Marvin. Marvin just doesn't have that type of talent. He can't dribble or pass at all, and he can't create his shot. He's also not as athletic as Tmac. It's very rare that players overcome deficiencies such as those.

That's why I'd much rather trade him now. He's "only 21" and is putting up 15 ppg. That's enough to entice a dumb GM for something of true value.

[Jjforprez]

There are even more examples of players who taper off after year 3, you can never assume the big breakout that T-Mac experienced.

As for why trade him:

1) some of us believe that he doesn't have the drive and killer instinct to ever become elite.
2) his rookie deal is ending which means either committing long term or cutting bait. There are financial realities that will need to be faced.
3) Josh Smith and Josh Childress are RFAs so the only players who could be dealt pre-July 1st are Marvin, Bibby, Joe, Al, Acie, or Zaza. Joe leaves a bigger hole than what we get in any trade for him, same for Al. Acie and Zaza don't really fetch much. That's leave Marvin and Bibby as the only real pieces we have to try and improve our team. Expect more S&T deals to be brought up once July arrives, but pre-draft the trades often contain picks which prevent the use of the RFAs.
4) A lot of us feel that we aren't a title contender as constructed, you have to give to get. Marvin should still have enough promise to be desired by other teams.
5) Marvin is replaceable many ways (Childress, Joe sliding to the 3, some people think Josh Smith moving to the 3 (not I), or with a replacement player (Tayshaun Prince, Joe Alexander, whomever) which makes him more flexible in trade situations. We have less options with moving Bibby (start Law, acquire a PG). A case could be made that Marvin's spot is the easiest place to improve the team's performance.

Good points, especially #4 and 5. I like Marvin, but the way I see it right now, the 3 is definitely the easiest place to better this team. If he improves next season and averages 16-18, that would be great, but it's how he gets his points that he needs to improve the most. Marvin just doesn't make enough plays for me.... he doesn't make things happen. His game this year was just that of a spot up shooter.

I got so frustrated with him sometimes... he didn't make plays. That's what I love about Smoove... you can say what you want about him, he's got his flaws, but the guy goes out there to make things happen. Marvin was a spot up shooter, and his shot wasn't all that good on alot of nights. All that being said, I won't be mad if we keep him. Like I said, I like the guy. But if we can improve at that spot, I wouldn't be mad at that either.

[raleigh]

-= original quote snipped =-


Think about what you're saying. Keep him for one more year and see what he does, and if he sucks, sign and trade him? If he does not improve this year, his trade value will not be as high as it is now. Even more so because he will be asking for a long term contract and more money.

That's worst-case scenario with a player that is barely old enough to drink. The odds of the worst-case scenario are not good ones. The most likely thing to happen is that Marvin will continue to get better incrementally over the next 4-5 seasons, which is why you keep him.

In fact, I'm in favor of extending him this offseason because of the great number of teams with cap space to spend on a promising young player next season. If he likes Atlanta, and wants to stay, you can afford to gamble on him at around $8-9M per.