JO to CHI

granger05 · Post #1 » by **granger05** » Mon Jun 9, 2008 9:18 pm

I've seen the CHI rumor crop up on the trade board, but no mentions of it here yet. Here's a link to the rumor (Tyrus Thomas + Hinrich/Hughes + Gordon/filler for JO). This is to a Sport's Illustrated page rather than the realgm page. I thougth the posts on the SI website were interesting since it looked like there were some CHI fans that were in favor of a deal like this.

I have to say that his value shooting up to this from two days ago when the rumor was that we would be trading our pick just to unload him for expiring contracts seems odd. Clearly, the value of JO is in the eye of the beholder. I guess all we need is one team to value him.

On an unrelated note, I can't see us packaging our pick with JO unless it's to move up. Mainly, this is because the Pacers are advertising that they'll be hosting an NBA draft party. It seem like an act of incredible cruelty to announce at the party that you've traded down.

Post #2 » by **count55** » Mon Jun 9, 2008 9:28 pm

Chicago Sun Times wrote:If the Bulls decide to select Memphis point guard Derrick Rose with the top pick in the draft this month, they might seek to fill their need for a low-post scorer by acquiring Indiana Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal. The Pacers would prefer not to deal O'Neal within the Central Division, but they might not have much choice. O'Neal has two years and $44 million left on his contract and a recent history of injuries, so few teams would be in position -- or willing -- to make a play for the 12-year veteran. The Bulls, though, are one of those teams. They have the players -- and, more important, the big-money contracts -- to get a deal done. A proposal built around forward Tyrus Thomas ($3.75 million), one of the Bulls' excess guards -- Larry Hughes ($12.8 million), Kirk Hinrich ($10 million) or Ben Gordon (restricted free agent) -- and a future draft pick meets the salary-cap requirements and might be the best offer the Pacers get.

This is the quote from the Sun Times. It's really more speculation than rumor, per se. The writer is spitballing, and if you read the exact wording (Thomas, one of the excess guards, and a future pick), he's not even right in saying that it would meet salary requirements.

There's a pretty significant number of permutations and one that would be Thomas/Hughes/filler/pick would strike me as relatively ugly.

This kind of feels like the Mike Wells "5 trade" blog in that there's not a lot of meat to the rumor.

granger05 · Post #3 » by **granger05** » Mon Jun 9, 2008 9:53 pm

I agree that this is somebody taking a shot in the dark. However, I do think that it's significant that someone writing from the perspective of another franchise sees this kind of value in JO.

I also (midly) disagree that a Thomas/Hughes/filler/pick trade is ugly. Obviously, it depends on the filler, but Thomas is an intriguing young piece which is more than what we've been seeing in offers for JO lately. Hughes' contract expires at the same time as JO. The only CHI contract that I view as particularly onerous is Nocioni. I think Hinrich can earn his money. In short, even that offer (Thomas/Hughes/filler/pick) is one I would be optimistic about.

I think that for the big market franchises (CHI, NY, LA, maybe even NJ), JO's contract coming off the books in LeBron's free agent year may up it's value more than we might realize. I think that might be a factor in a deal like this.

joew8302 · Post #4 » by **joew8302** » Mon Jun 9, 2008 9:56 pm

I like this deal a lot better than the Cleveland one. Thomas is a young, athletic guy than can play big. The Pacers could use that type of athletic ability. Hughes will be a burden, but JO is a burden for the Pacers now, so no big deal there.

Post #5 » by **PR07** » Mon Jun 9, 2008 11:53 pm

I wouldn't do it if the filler is Hughes, but I would do it if it is Kirk Hinrich or Ben Gordon. Still, looks like salary would have to be added though.

FreeRon · Post #6 » by **FreeRon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:08 am

What about Thomas, Hughes, an Hinrich? I know it says one of their excess guards, but they'll both be excess guards when they draft Rose. I don't know how salaries match and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm sure filler could be added either way.

basketballwacko2 · Post #7 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:08 am

JO, and Ike to the Bulls for Hinrich, Gooden, Thomas future #1 and a 2nd in this draft.

Post #8 » by **PR07** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:09 am

I'd settle for Hinrich, Thomas, and Gooden. I don't really think we'll get much more than that.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #9 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:12 am

Thomas would be my ideal replacement for JO as I have been saying for half a year now.

TSC25 · Post #10 » by **TSC25** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:55 am

Bird is very high on Gordon,so id say any Chicago trade has to involve Ben.

Mr. Kite · Post #11 » by **Mr. Kite** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:47 am

PacersRule07 wrote:I'd settle for Hinrich, Thomas, and Gooden. I don't really think we'll get much more than that.

The Bulls wouldn't trade Thomas and Gooden for JO, because that would leave Chicago very thin up front. Noah, JO, Aaron Gray, Cedric Simmons, ???

Given JO's injury history, that's just not going to happen.

If the Pacers want Hinrich and Thomas, I think Paxson would insist that Bird take Hughes as well.

Hughes' contract admitedly sucks, but it's the same length as JO. In other words, one year of Hughes, then he's a very tradeable expiring.

Post #12 » by **PR07** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:59 am

JO+Diogu for Hinrich, T. Thomas, and Gooden. Problem solved.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #13 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:23 am

PacersRule07 wrote:JO+Diogu for Hinrich, T. Thomas, and Gooden. Problem solved.

Sign me up for that.

Mr. Kite · Post #14 » by **Mr. Kite** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:41 am

I doubt Chicago would be interested in that package, but you never know.

My guess is that the Bulls could not take on JO's salary (or JO + Diogu), keep Gordon and Deng, and stay under the salary cap.

Mr. Kite · Post #15 » by **Mr. Kite** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:49 am

How about JO for Hinrich, Noc, and a future protected first?

basketballwacko2 · Post #16 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:42 am

Mr. Kite wrote:How about JO for Hinrich, Noc, and a future protected first?

Nocioni is a SF were pretty much set there and he has a pretty big/long contract. No thanks.

Post #17 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:18 pm

Mr. Kite wrote:I doubt Chicago would be interested in that package, but you never know.

My guess is that the Bulls could not take on JO's salary (or JO + Diogu), keep Gordon and Deng, and stay under the salary cap.

Well, you're only scheduled to be about $7-8 million under the salary cap (more like $1-3 million after drafting and signing Rose or Beasley) this off-season before even re-signing Deng and Gordon, so staying under the salary cap isn't going to happen, no matter what you do, unless you trade the #1 pick for something late in the draft and then send out Gordon and Deng for nothing of monetary value. Insofacto, not going to happen.

However, if a JO/Diogu for Hinrich, Gooden, Thomas deal went down, you'd add essentially only Diogu's salary for next year of $2.9 million. That's the only net change in salary. If the deal were Hinrich, Hughes, Thomas, and other considerations for JO, you'd actually cut $6 million in salary instantaneously by forcing Indy to take on $6 million extra, something that we simply cannot do.

Mr. Kite · Post #18 » by **Mr. Kite** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:46 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Nocioni is a SF were pretty much set there and he has a pretty big/long contract. No thanks.

Fair enough.

But, for the record, I think Noc is a better power forward. He doesn't have a low post game, but he plays PFs pretty well on defense. He's quick enough to beat them up and down the court (even in a setting in which the teams are mostly playing half-court style), and his outside shot is very good for a 4 (and pretty good for a 3) when he's not stuck jacking the ball up like he had to do last year.

In fact, Noc played a lot of PF the last couple years in a lineup with Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, and ???

Mr. Kite · Post #19 » by **Mr. Kite** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:51 pm

My bad. I didn't mean to write "salary cap." I meant to write luxury tax.

For the Bulls owner, it seems that the luxury tax is the hard cap.

In terms of staying under the tax, I suspect Chicago will have a lot of trade offers that cut $5m in salary. Whether those offers are any good is a different question. The point is that Paxson may not have the option of taking on JO if it means moving into luxury tax territory.

Scoot McGroot wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Well, you're only scheduled to be about $7-8 million under the salary cap (more like $1-3 million after drafting and signing Rose or Beasley) this off-season before even re-signing Deng and Gordon, so staying under the salary cap isn't going to happen, no matter what you do, unless you trade the #1 pick for something late in the draft and then send out Gordon and Deng for nothing of monetary value. Insofacto, not going to happen.

greenway84 · Post #20 » by **greenway84** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:44 pm

Assuming both sides are happy with JO+Ike for Hinrich+Gooden+Thomas all besides salary wise. Why not have us take on Hughes for Tinsley or Murphy. Tinsley is paid 4 mil less but for one more year. Murphy is paid 2 mil less but for 2 more years. Both work on trade checker. With the Murphy trade. It would bring back another offensive big for them, but with noccioni I don't know why they need another big after JO. But like I said a trade looking like:

Hughes
Hinrich
Gooden
Thomas
2010 1st
08 2nd

FOR

Oneal
Diogu
Tinsley
08 2nd