Donaghy & the Fixed Games

[DeJuanderful]

I haven't seen a thread on this, so I decided to start one.

I really don't want to believe the Donaghy crap, but it just rings true on so many levels.

1. It is obvious that certain players get more respect from the refs.
2. It is obvious that certain big market teams benefit from calls at times. Some would say that the Heat even benefitted back in 2006.
3. The lottery always seems to benefit teams that really need a boost. For example, when a team is last in attendence then they suddenly get Yao Ming.

Is the Commish pulling the strings like a puppet master, or are these just coincidences. I don't know.

One thing I do know is that one of the refs in that 2002 series was Dick Bavetta. That bastard helped to give the Knicks several games in our classic Heat/Knicks battles. The link says that the refs were "company men, always acting in the interest of the NBA." Was this the case back then as well?

Link

[DayofMourning]

DJ! My old friend from the ESPN boards!

Sup....

[DeJuanderful]

And you are?
lol

[Heat11114]

I haven't seen a thread on this, so I decided to start one.

I really don't want to believe the Donaghy crap, but it just rings true on so many levels.

1. It is obvious that certain players get more respect from the refs.

I think thats the least of the allegations and true of every sport. Is a strike for Barry Bonds the same as a strike against Juan Pierre?

2. It is obvious that certain big market teams benefit from calls at times. Some would say that the Heat even benefitted back in 2006.

Spurs still managed to win titles, NY sucks, SA-Detroit got very small ratings. Ditto for the 4 game sweep SA-Clev.

3. The lottery always seems to benefit teams that really need a boost. For example, when a team is last in attendence then they suddenly get Yao Ming.

Perhaps, of course Orlando also won 3 times in some very important lottery's.



.........

BTW one thing I will NEVER understand, where in the hell do the Laker fans come off as "LOOK WE TOLD YOU SO!!! CONSPIRACY!!! CONSPIRACY!!!"

Ummm the Lakers are the freaking team of the 00's!!!! 3 titles, 5 finals appearances? So only the games you lost were rigged? WTF?

For the record I find Donaghy incredibly hard to believe. A convincted felon talking crap on the company who fired him? No one else knows anything or is unwilling to talk?

[DayofMourning]

And you are?
lol

ZoisKing here!

I registered for this site many years ago and forgot my password, so I changed my name to DOM.

I figured I'd stump you on that one.

[pramis123]

Of all of the sports, I believe that basketball is the toughest sport to officiate because of the spead and how much contact is happening. In High School with only two refs, its imposible. Although this individual is not credible, it would not surprice me one bit if it was true. For that reason, I really think that all professional leagues should get together and separate their refs from being employees of their respective leagues. The should be part of an independent ref. association who's members are supplied by the leagues to officiate games. Officials should be independent and not employees of any league because it creates these types of potential conflict of interest. You can say the same thing about college refs. Frankly, this would be very easy to do and would provide an additional degree of transparency in the process. The league would not even know which refs. are going to work a particular game until shortly before gametime, and league officials would have no direct contact with the refs....only through their association's supervisors.

Frankly, I think its an idea who's time has come, as there is too much money involved in college and pro sports.

[Lane1974]

I think the problems are more likely to be from rogue refs and/or team officials (IE bribing, chicanery, or something sinister) than some major directive from Stern's pen. Stern is too smart and knows that would be a house of cards and would inevitably come out.

[Heat11114]

Of all of the sports, I believe that basketball is the toughest sport to officiate because of the spead and how much contact is happening. In High School with only two refs, its imposible. Although this individual is not credible, it would not surprice me one bit if it was true. For that reason, I really think that all professional leagues should get together and separate their refs from being employees of their respective leagues. The should be part of an independent ref. association who's members are supplied by the leagues to officiate games. Officials should be independent and not employees of any league because it creates these types of potential conflict of interest. You can say the same thing about college refs. Frankly, this would be very easy to do and would provide an additional degree of transparency in the process. The league would not even know which refs. are going to work a particular game until shortly before gametime, and league officials would have no direct contact with the refs....only through their association's supervisors.

Frankly, I think its an idea who's time has come, as there is too much money involved in college and pro sports.

Would separating officials from the league really stop something like this? According to those who believe Donaghey most believe it was done on a small scale, hence why no one else is talking/knows. That seems to be the argument, why couldn't the league simply get a couple officials together if they were independent? Someone might be a whistle blower (no pun?), that could just as easily happen now.

[HeatInOhio]

For the record I find Donaghy incredibly hard to believe. A convincted felon talking crap on the company who fired him? No one else knows anything or is unwilling to talk?

The thing though is it isn't just talking crap. Giving the FBI false information is a crime and will extend his sentence most likely if they investigate and find he lied about it. Did he divulge this information after he pleaded guilty? If so then I wouldn't discount it so quickly. Plus, its not like the NBA hasn't had credibility issues and conspiracy theories for years now. Either way, there will probably be an investigation into his allegations.

[Heat11114]

-= original quote snipped =-




The thing though is it isn't just talking crap. Giving the FBI false information is a crime and will extend his sentence most likely if they investigate and find he lied about it. Did he divulge this information after he pleaded guilty? If so then I wouldn't discount it so quickly. Plus, its not like the NBA hasn't had credibility issues and conspiracy theories for years now. Either way, there will probably be an investigation into his allegations.

I don't know, i'm not familiar with how perjury charges work. But this really doesn't do anything for his case one way or another so why would they investigate it? The NBA fixing games doesn't make him any less guilty of fixing games himself or getting involved with mobsters. How exactly does this make what he did legal? It seems like he's simply trying to drag the NBA down with him.

Whether the NBA fixes games or not doesn't seem to make him any less guilty of the crimes he's accused of. It may in the eye of public opinion, but now in the eye of the court.

Edit: He's already pleaded guility, the biggest thing for him now is to get a lesser sentence. What better way to do that than to say "Yea i **** up, but look the entire league is corrupt so my misconduct is nothing"

[GameTime_3]

I hate NBA refs, Nothing can change that, even if this is not true. The problem with the nba is that 90 percent of refs do a great job but the other 10% kill me. The NFL had the same thing happend acouple years ago and they rid them self of alot of bad ones, I think its time for the NBA to do the same.But honestly, Stern fears the Refs. I had a chance to talk to him once and hear him Talk about refs and he didnt say anything to change my mind. He kinda was defending them for some reason.

[Heat11114]

I hate NBA refs, Nothing can change that, even if this is not true. The problem with the nba is that 90 percent of refs do a great job but the other 10% kill me. The NFL had the same thing happend acouple years ago and they rid them self of alot of bad ones, I think its time for the NBA to do the same.But honestly, Stern fears the Refs. I had a chance to talk to him once and hear him Talk about refs and he didnt say anything to change my mind. He kinda was defending them for some reason.

I agree. What kills me is when the ref with a worse angle calls a foul when the ref with a perfect angle doesn't. I definitely think some refs have bias with players they don't like. But with just the word of one ref, a convicted felon at that, I need something else before I believe a full-fledged conspiracy. For every fishy call that has come up there's ten calls that weren't. For every Lakers-Boston final in the last 10 years we have a SA-Cleveland 4 game sweep.

[Heat11114]

One thing I don't understand. People and Donaghy himself point to specific games, but in a league that is as big as the NBA with income coming in from every which way (merchandise, internet, advertising, tv deals, attendance, etc) how much financial sense does it make to fix a game or two? Donaghy said the Laker/King series was simply extended to 7 games, but didn't insinuate that game 7 was fixed. How much money did that 1 game really make the NBA? He didn't make any mention of game 7 being fixed, so the Stern was fine with the Kings going to the finals but really wanted that game 7 in the WCF? This thing would have to be huge to make real money, a lot more than just forcing a game #7.

[HeatInOhio]

-= original quote snipped =-

I don't know, i'm not familiar with how perjury charges work. But this really doesn't do anything for his case one way or another so why would they investigate it? ... Whether the NBA fixes games or not doesn't seem to make him any less guilty of the crimes he's accused of. It may in the eye of public opinion, but now in the eye of the court.

Well but there's two parts to the court. First the trial (which he didn't have because he pleaded guilty) and second is the sentencing. If a judge sees that a person pleads guilty and also exposes other crimes it can certainly help reduce the sentence of the convicted person. Depending on how much corruption someone exposes, they can potentially reduce the sentence to no time at all (see people like Sammy Gravano). On the flip side, if he gives them a bunch of bunk information, it can add time to his sentence... so this isn't just "Talking smack" there's serious implications to it.

[Heat11114]

-= original quote snipped =-




Well but there's two parts to the court. First the trial (which he didn't have because he pleaded guilty) and second is the sentencing. If a judge sees that a person pleads guilty and also exposes other crimes it can certainly help reduce the sentence of the convicted person. Depending on how much corruption someone exposes, they can potentially reduce the sentence to no time at all (see people like Sammy Gravano). On the flip side, if he gives them a bunch of bunk information, it can add time to his sentence... so this isn't just "Talking smack" there's serious implications to it.

He's scheduled to be sentenced on July 14th now, exactly how far do we push this back? Seeing as Donaghy doesn't have any actual proof of anything, how exactly does this even help an investigation? It simply starts an investigation it doesn't really help anything. If they find proof they don't really need the word of a convicted felon to put other people away, if they don't find proof a convicted felon's word isn't going to be enough to put anyone away. Hell connecting your investigation with the word of a felon, probably not the best thing to do once you try to put others in prison.

[HeatInOhio]

-= original quote snipped =-

Seeing as Donaghy doesn't have any actual proof of anything, how exactly does this even help an investigation? It simply starts an investigation it doesn't really help anything.

I'm totally lost on this point... I mean the burden of proof falls on the investigators, it's always that way. The investigators would have to look into the accusations and see if there's proof.

For instance, if I'm involved in a crime and I decided to work w/ the gov't and I told them a bunch of information on other illegal activities in the hopes I would get a reduced sentence... the burden wouldn't be on me to prove it. I mean, I wouldn't have to go out and physically collect evidence that proves I'm right, law enforcement/detectives/investigators do that.

If it exposes corruption, then that's helping something according the law and the eyes of the judge that's going to sentence a person.

-= original quote snipped =-
Hell connecting your investigation with the word of a felon, probably not the best thing to do once you try to put others in prison..

It doesn't matter if the source of information is a convicted felon, a saint or an anonymous no name. The gov't and local law enforcement agencies try to get convicts and/or people on trial to spill beans all the time.

[Heat11114]

-= original quote snipped =-



It doesn't matter if the source of information is a convicted felon, a saint or an anonymous no name. The gov't and local law enforcement agencies try to get convicts and/or people on trial to spill beans all the time.

So exactly what evidence are they gonna get in the next 33 days that could change his sentence?

It's interesting how these claims come up in a response to the NBA suing Donaghy for 1 million dollars for having to investigate his illegal activity.

[HeatInOhio]

-= original quote snipped =-
So exactly what evidence are they gonna get in the next 33 days that could change his sentence?

Couldn't tell ya.

-= original quote snipped =-
It's interesting how these claims come up in a response to the NBA suing Donaghy for 1 million dollars for having to investigate his illegal activity.

Donaghy's camp didn't just give this info up, the feds have had it for a while. They made the allegations public when the NBA announced they were going to sue him. It's not that interesting really, its basically tit for tat... "Oh you're gonna sue me... well here's your dirty laundry to the press" that kinda thing...

[Heat11114]

-= original quote snipped =-



Donaghy's camp didn't just give this info up, the feds have had it for a while. They made the allegations public when the NBA announced they were going to sue him. It's not that interesting really, its basically tit for tat... "Oh you're gonna sue me... well here's your dirty laundry to the press" that kinda thing...

Cause this story has more legs with the media than it does with the authorities.

What I don't understand, Donaghy didn't ref the 02 WCF game 6 that he says was rigged, why does he know and no one else?

[HeatInOhio]

Well... either his allegations are true and those who know are acting like they don't. Or his allegations are false... time will tell.