Could Mayo be our pick ? With article.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

[quote="CoolD"][/quote]

Thats true that Beasley will never be elite defensively..he will most likely be an average defender..

If we get a good defensive Center we'll be okay..just like Iverson was on an elite defensive team in Philly despite being average defensively.

[heat4life]

Anyone that thinks Allen Iverson doesn't suffer in defense, do to his size hasn't watched basketball for a long time.

Allen Iverson all his career has had position identity crisis. He has been moved from SG to PG all the time.

You are becoming a classic poster like old "Prince" man.

Pound by pound, Iverson is one of the best players to EVER play this game. PG or SG, 100% of the league would have LOVED to have him in their rosters. Wade's game always reminded me of Iverson. Always attacking the basket as a PG or SG. Who cares!! He dominated his position. The point is that his size did not stop him from doing it.

As for his defense, Iverson never was a top defender one on one but he was not trash either. He did lead the league in steals a few seasons I believe. I don't know what league you were watching but Philly was one of the top defensive teams in the late 90's, early 00's.

But Allen Iverson is a great scorer. That is able to make up for some his deficiencies to a degree in the offense of end, because he is so dominant in offense, but still is garbage in defense.

Again, you tell me that wouldn't draft Allen Iverson if he was there at #2. Iverson was never garbage on defense as you put it. Was he elite on defense? no but he was average at worst.

Beasley could be that guy. But alot projections have him scoring around 20 points.

If those projections are true, he would not be able to outright make up for his defensive deficiencies.

What a bunch of crap!

And you know all of this because?

Back it up dude. Show me articles that say so. Come on please...

Difference between Kobe and A.I. One, is one sided player. That only plays offense(AI). Kobe that has such height advantage, can actually play defense while still being a super dominant scorer do his size for position.

How convenient. You spent pages and pages on this thread arguing size etc, you point out Wade and his measurements, then I throw the name of a player who dominated the SG or PG position who was extremely undersized and now you want to compare him to Kobe Bryant?

News flash dude, there is only 1 Michael Jordan, 1 Kobe Bryant, 1 LeBron James and evidently, 1 Allen Iverson. Again tell me, if Allen Iverson is staring at you at #2 in his draft class, would you draft him?

Now, will Beasley be such a great scorer, to make up for his size? Even if that happens. He will never be truly complete. Like Allen Iverson that is a horrible defender. But the fans will forget, because offense sells tickets and jerseys, defense wins Championships.

I don't understand you. What do you want? I mean, there is a HUGE possibility that Rose (your obvious preference) is gone with the 1st pick. Are you suggesting we pass on Beasley? You want Mayo? or perhaps Brook Lopez since you seem obsessed with size? Please explain...

[CoolD]

Am not going to respond to half you comments that are pure dribble of a A.I fan boy. But you thinking that A.I can defend. is laughable.

So because the Heat had top defense in their title run. J Williams is a good to great defender. Bad defenders could be hidden, when you have guys like Zo cleaning your mistakes. But considering Beasley is supposed to be a big guy, big guys that can't defend are harder to hide. To almost impossible, just watch Mark Blount.(ofcourse I could never imagine Beasley ever being as horrible as him, not close, that is how horrible Blount is)

A.I played in a team full of defenders, from Mutombo, Eric Snow, and a couple others, under Larry Brown a guy that was all about defense.

I could see you have a real hard on for A.I. The guy is talented ballhog though. That hasn't won jack but scoring titles with awful fieldgoal percentage .

But if you think A.I's size hasn't hurt him able to play defense. I think you are just that typical fan boy.

[SJ2100]

This is getting to be worse than MightyToine, isn't it?

[Lane1974]

Am not going to respond to half you comments that are pure dribble of a A.I fan boy. But you thinking that A.I can defend. is laughable.

So because the Heat had top defense in their title run. J Williams is a good to great defender. Bad defenders could be hidden, when you have guys like Zo cleaning your mistakes. But considering Beasley is supposed to be a big guy, big guys that can't defend are harder to hide. To almost impossible, just watch Mark Blount.(ofcourse I could never imagine Beasley ever being as horrible as him, not close, that is how horrible Blount is)

A.I played in a team full of defenders, from Mutombo, Eric Snow, and a couple others, under Larry Brown a guy that was all about defense.

I could see you have a real hard on for A.I. The guy is talented ballhog though. That hasn't won jack but scoring titles with awful fieldgoal percentage .

But if you think A.I's size hasn't hurt him able to play defense. I think you are just that typical fan boy.

I am missing your point as well -- who in this draft class is a perfect player or close to one? None. If you don't want an Iverson level player, a top 5%-10% player in the league, then you'll probably never be happy with who is drafted.

Iverson isn't Kobe or Jordan, but he is better than 90-95% of the players in the league in his prime...

was the Jason Williams thing serious or sarcasm?

[heat4life]

Am not going to respond to half you comments that are pure dribble of a A.I fan boy. But you thinking that A.I can defend. is laughable.

So because the Heat had top defense in their title run. J Williams is a good to great defender. Bad defenders could be hidden, when you have guys like Zo cleaning your mistakes. But considering Beasley is supposed to be a big guy, big guys that can't defend are harder to hide. To almost impossible, just watch Mark Blount.(ofcourse I could never imagine Beasley ever being as horrible as him, not close, that is how horrible Blount is)

A.I played in a team full of defenders, from Mutombo, Eric Snow, and a couple others, under Larry Brown a guy that was all about defense.

I could see you have a real hard on for A.I. The guy is talented ballhog though. That hasn't won jack but scoring titles with awful fieldgoal percentage .

But if you think A.I's size hasn't hurt him able to play defense. I think you are just that typical fan boy.

Yeah, I AM the fan boy....

If your best attributes are to put down other players just to be able to hype YOUR favorite player, then who is the "fan boy" here?

I have yet to see you answer any of my questions OR the questions of other poster. You hide behind your "this player offense or defense is garbage" or "this guy is too short without shoes" or "this player is projected to be this and that"....

When you learn to use FACTS to backup your arguments instead of manipulating "your opinion" to act as facts, you will be taken more seriously around here. Until then you are just another "fan boy" in the long list of "fan boys" to come along on these boards.

[/thread]

[HeatInOhio]

Isn't Iverson 13th all time in total steals right behind Derek Harper and right in front of Isiah Thomas? Doesn't his lifetime 2.3 steals per game put him only behind Michael Jordan, Mookie Blaylock and Alvin Robertson for the top 25 all time steals leaders?

How does a guy who is so horrible on defense place himself among the great defenders in the league's history in steals? Iverson was never a lock down defender per say, but he was never a bad defender either.

On a side note, his first ballot hall of fame career worked out alright for a midget with a position crises.

[NO-KG-AI]

Iverson was only a bad defender at the SG position, if you have another guard next to him that can guard the 2, his footspeed to guard PG's is great, and he can wreak havoc with help defense.

[CoolD]

Isn't Iverson 13th all time in total steals right behind Derek Harper and right in front of Isiah Thomas? Doesn't his lifetime 2.3 steals per game put him only behind Michael Jordan, Mookie Blaylock and Alvin Robertson for the top 25 all time steals leaders?

How does a guy who is so horrible on defense place himself among the great defenders in the league's history in steals? Iverson was never a lock down defender per say, but he was never a bad defender either.

On a side note, his first ballot hall of fame career worked out alright for a midget with a position crises.

Bruce Bowen must be a horrible defender then, he averages .9 steals per game.
Do you actually watch guys play.

A.I just gambles, considerig this not the NFl were a gamble is a huge payoff, if he gets 2.3 steals, but gambles around 10 times. That is 7 times his man is going to get an oppurtunity to easy shot, or drive to the paint, big man helps, easy assist to a guy downlow .

A.I always gets crushed when a big man sets a pick. This totally puts the defense at a disavtange. He easily gets outpower. A.I when he tryes, at times could be an average defender, but many nights he calls it a night doesn't even try.

But am going to stop ragging on A.I defense, because this thread is not about A.I.


I just think Beasley playing the four will have a disadvantage in defense.

Know some fan boys think he will score like Iverson. Will see about that though .
But if Beasley has a harder time scoring at the pro's, he better make up for it in different ways.

And to the guy saying I will not be happy no matter what, is not that. Lets say if the Heat don't realise that Beasley comes with prepackaged weakness. And we live in denial, it would be harder to put a team around this guy, because we assumend the guy was better than expected.
Kind of like how the Heat started the season, most fan boys thought the Heat were going to the Finals, sometimes you just have to look at things with more critcal view.

Mayo has potential to be a real good offensive player, very good defensive player from most reports . The question is can the guy really play the point though.

Beasley has the potential to be al great offensive player, but some people think he might be a liabilty in defense. Some think he will be good, but no one has yet to say he will be great in that end.


Now, you have two guys, one guy is probably more talented in offense, but if the other guy is much more talented in defense. I probably favor the better defender.

3 inches could help alot to a big guy, yes size is not everything. But Shaq wouldn't be Shaq if wasn't a giant. Size does help.

[Heat11114]

[quote="CoolD"][/quote]

Are you honestly lecturing people on being fanboys and bias? Really?

[HeatInOhio]

Bruce Bowen must be a horrible defender then, he averages .9 steals per game.
Do you actually watch guys play.

A.I just gambles, considerig this not the NFl were a gamble is a huge payoff, if he gets 2.3 steals, but gambles around 10 times. That is 7 times his man is going to get an oppurtunity to easy shot, or drive to the paint, big man helps, easy assist to a guy downlow .

A.I always gets crushed when a big man sets a pick. This totally puts the defense at a disavtange. He easily gets outpower. A.I when he tryes, at times could be an average defender, but many nights he calls it a night doesn't even try.

I've been watching basketball since the mid 80s. I've seen plenty of AI and in his prime, he was not a bad defender. On a side note, what PGs don't get crushed by big men setting picks? I'm guessing Rose would never have trouble with PFs and Cs picking him?

[CoolD]

-= original quote snipped =-



I've been watching basketball since the mid 80s. I've seen plenty of AI and in his prime, he was not a bad defender. On a side note, what PGs don't get crushed by big men setting picks? I'm guessing Rose would never have trouble with PFs and Cs picking him?

This is probalby my last comment on A.I 's defense, because I could truly care less that he sucks at it, am not his fan, most likely he will never play for the Heat, so its pretty much irrelevant to me.

But answering your question on pointguards that don't get destroyed on picks.
Billups, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Derek Fisher, Marcus Banks, Jacque Vaughn those are some that come to mind. There are probably more, but they might play in teams that I don't catch often, so they are overlooked.

Now, here in this YouTube tape, in A.I's interview with Steven A, if you have the patience to wait till it downloads, watch the conversation from 22. 38 part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAxaGLxsIw
A.I thinks he is a top defender because he gets steals. Just like Larry Hughes.

Then watch what A.I says. "Coach Brown is the only one that thinks I don't play defense"

The guy that knows about defense coach Brown, or your opinion. I go with Brown.

[heat4life]

Bruce Bowen must be a horrible defender then, he averages .9 steals per game.
Do you actually watch guys play.

How lame. Do YOU actually watch guys play? Bruce Bowen is one of the top one-on-one defenders in the league; exactly how many players can play one-on-one defense like he can? You keep comparing Iverson to Kobe or then you go to the extreme and compare him to Bowen.

Let's play your game. Derrick Rose is NOWHERE near the defensive player Bruce Bowen is...

A.I just gambles, considerig this not the NFl were a gamble is a huge payoff, if he gets 2.3 steals, but gambles around 10 times. That is 7 times his man is going to get an oppurtunity to easy shot, or drive to the paint, big man helps, easy assist to a guy downlow .

Doesn't that apply to ALL players in the NBA. That means that Iverson's average is still at the top of league whether you like it or not. I do agree that steals are not everything in defense but it says a little bit about his anticipation. Eddie Jones was good one-on-one defender and a good off the ball defender as well but I know you can sit here and tell me that Eddie Jones was a better player than Allen Iverson.

There is no such a thing as a perfect player. Not even Derrick Rose.

A.I always gets crushed when a big man sets a pick. This totally puts the defense at a disavtange. He easily gets outpower. A.I when he tryes, at times could be an average defender, but many nights he calls it a night doesn't even try.

That is your opinion, but like someone else said, several PG's in the league get crushed with picks which is why pick and roll is one of the most effective plays in the NBA. Teams spend hours teaching how to set picks and players such as Michael Doleac get paid for such services.

But am going to stop ragging on A.I defense, because this thread is not about A.I.

You've been arguing size, I gave you Allen Iverson's name and you have yet to answer me if you would pass on Iverson if he was staring at you with pick #2. It is very convenient to avoid the question.

I just think Beasley playing the four will have a disadvantage in defense.

This could very much be true but like I've been saying all along, you don't know just how much a 19yr old can or can't improve on the defensive end.

Know some fan boys think he will score like Iverson. Will see about that though .
But if Beasley has a harder time scoring at the pro's, he better make up for it in different ways.

Nobody is saying that Beasley is going to score like Iverson. Way to manipulate words to your advantage... again.

Iverson's name was brought up because you keep implying that a player who is reasonably undersized (in height at least) for his projected position cannot make it in the NBA as star. Allen Iverson's career says otherwise.

Nobody is trying to force feed Beasley to you but it is very irritating, and that is to EVERYONE on these boards, that you keep using his height as your point of argument for his projected shortcomings. The guy is 6'8 and you are treating him like if he was 6'2 at the PF spot.

And to the guy saying I will not be happy no matter what, is not that. Lets say if the Heat don't realise that Beasley comes with prepackaged weakness. And we live in denial, it would be harder to put a team around this guy, because we assumend the guy was better than expected.
Kind of like how the Heat started the season, most fan boys thought the Heat were going to the Finals, sometimes you just have to look at things with more critcal view.

The funny thing is that I know most of the posters who have replied to your nonsense for years before you ever came around and I know for a fact that all of them are HEAT fans first. We don't ride the jocks of college players in here. Whether it is Rose or Beasley or Mayo. The point is to have unbiased opinions. We discuss Beasley at more length here because he is the player that most likely will fall on our laps. If you pay attention, most of the posters have proposed trades that involves shipping the #2 pick (Beasley). How exactly are we "fan boys" again?

Mayo has potential to be a real good offensive player, very good defensive player from most reports . The question is can the guy really play the point though.

Finally we get something. I take that your fuss is because you would prefer Mayo over Beasley at #2.

Beasley has the potential to be al great offensive player, but some people think he might be a liabilty in defense. Some think he will be good, but no one has yet to say he will be great in that end.

Key words being "some people think". They are not facts. They might be right, they might be wrong. Again, nobody knows, so don't take them as if they are written on stone.

Now, you have two guys, one guy is probably more talented in offense, but if the other guy is much more talented in defense. I probably favor the better defender.

With all things being equal, I agree. That is why Riley and Co are doing their homework to determine if indeed Mayo is the best option over Beasley or vice-versa. Maybe they determine that we could get better value in a trade than what we would get drafting either guy. I guess we'll see.

3 inches could help alot to a big guy, yes size is not everything. But Shaq wouldn't be Shaq if wasn't a giant. Size does help.

Again, you go the extremes t prove your point. There's never been ANYONE like Shaq, EVER but that didn't stop 6'9 Bill Russell from being a hall of fame center or our own Alonzo Mourning (6'10) from having a successful career.

Like I said before, when you are a "special" player, you can overcome adversity in your way to a successful NBA career, even if the odd are against you. Rose and Beasley seem to be those type of players.

[Lane1974]

I concur with H4L that no one here is Beasley nut rider... for the most part our board is pretty hands off when it comes to discussing the college game during the season, and no one has a vested interest in him over anyone else, per se