Boston, Basketball, and Race

greenbeans · Post #2 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:55 pm

first all black starting 5 too.

and its OT, but Willie O'ree(SP?) with the Bruins

Athanacropolis · Post #3 » by **Athanacropolis** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:57 pm

Really interesting post, and one that does a lot to dispel the myth that all the Boston-(and white people)haters (*coughSpikeLeecough*) toss at the Celtics, and the city of Boston, in particular. The coaching situation you mentioned is very telling.

For the past 35 years, the Cs have had a predominately black team, except for the mid-eighties. Anyone trying to say that the 80s teams were white due to racism is crazy. Are you telling me that GMs wouldn't jump at the chance to have a team with Bird, McHale, Ainge, and Walton on it? And so most of the bench was white. Big deal. The Celtics never stopped drafting and signing black players.

As for the city itself, well, I've lived here for 4 years, and let me tell you there are racist jerks of all colors everywhere. None of my black friends have complained about overt racism permeating the city of Boston, and as far as I know, neither have the players of the past 15 or so seasons. I think those accusations are baseless, and insulting to those of us that live here.

Anyway, enough rambling. Go Doc!

tombattor · Post #4 » by **tombattor** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:01 pm

It has nothing to do with what the Celtics does. It's about the people living in the city.

Bill Russell was one of the greatest Celtics, yet his house was vandalized by a bunch of racists who didn't want a black man living in their neighborhood. The fact that we were the first team to have a black head coach, all black starting lineup, etc. says more about the greatness of Red Auerbach, who saw that happen than an average person living in the city.

Athanacropolis · Post #5 » by **Athanacropolis** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:05 pm

tombattor wrote:It has nothing to do with what the Celtics does. It's about the people living in the city.

Bill Russell was one of the greatest Celtics, yet his house was vandalized by a bunch of racists who didn't want a black man living in their neighborhood. The fact that we were the first team to have a black head coach, all black starting lineup, etc. says more about the greatness of Red Auerbach, who saw that happen than an average person living in the city.

But that was the city 30 years ago. You can't blame people in the city, or the franchise owners, on what happened so long in the past when things clearly aren't the same now. What happened to Russell was deplorable, and I do not blame him at all for the hard feelings he still bears towards the city. However, to link the city's past and the franchise is a fallacy. I think that's what the OP meant.

tombattor · Post #6 » by **tombattor** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:12 pm

Athanacropolis wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
But that was the city 30 years ago. You can't blame people in the city, or the franchise owners, on what happened so long in the past when things clearly aren't the same now. What happened to Russell was deplorable, and I do not blame him at all for the hard feelings he still bears towards the city. However, to link the city's past and the franchise is a fallacy. I think that's what the OP meant.

I understand, but I'm just saying that the fact that the Celtics were the first team to draft a black player, start the all black team or had the first black coach doesn't say anything about the city or its citizens. It only says something about the men responsible for making that happen.

Because in the same token, the Red Sox were the last team to integrate.

greenbeans · Post #7 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:12 pm

Boston now is COMPLETELY different than Boston as recent as ten years ago.

Athanacropolis · Post #8 » by **Athanacropolis** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:18 pm

tombattor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I understand, but I'm just saying that the fact that the Celtics were the first team to draft a black player, start the all black team or had the first black coach doesn't say anything about the city or its citizens. It only says something about the men responsible for making that happen.

Because in the same token, the Red Sox were the last team to integrate.

I see your point, and I agree.

Brooklyn Zoo · Post #9 » by **Brooklyn Zoo** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:19 pm

I certainly didn't mean to indict Boston as the sole NBA city with race issues. In fact, I was making the point that in spite of the possible community standards, the Celtics have historically gone against the norm to give opportunities to AA coaches, and those coaches have had great success.

Barry Lird · Post #10 » by **Barry Lird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:50 pm

Yawn. The old Boston as racist city thing... again.

Is Detroit a racist city, or DC? How about Atlanta.

In terms of Russ' house being vandalized, it's a sad and bad thing, of course, but on the flip side, how would a white person fare in predominantly black Detroit, or Baltimore. Statistically, who would be more likely to be victimized by someone not of his race?

There is racism on all sides of the matter, but statistics just don't bear out the whites as racists narrative (at least as far as interracial crimes are concerned).

It's a pretty tired subject, in my view, and one not based in fact.

greenbeans · Post #11 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:53 pm

Barry Lird wrote:Yawn. The old Boston as racist city thing... again.

Is Detroit a racist city, or DC? How about Atlanta.

In terms of Russ' house being vandalized, it's a sad and bad thing, of course, but on the flip side, how would a white person fare in predominantly black Detroit, or Baltimore. Statistically, who would be more likely to be victimized by someone not of his race?

There is racism on all sides of the matter, but statistics just don't bear out the whites as racists narrative (at least as far as interracial crimes are concerned).

It's a pretty tired subject, in my view, and one not based in fact.

yeah, yeah.. what HE said