Boston just Proved we need 3 Stars

[McGrady2Head]

the media hypes kobe up for ratings. if you actually watch the games, he isnt THAT great

[TMU]

this win just proved to EVERYONe including Kobe fans that Kobe isn't god and isn't that far ahead of Paul Pierce or Tmac in terms of ability. Paul Pierce was considered nowehre close to Kobe, he destroyed Kobe this series while being surrounding by a good team. Kobe still has not win a ring without Shaq and has choked his last 2 finals apperances. He's no Jordan nor is he that much better than Pierce or Mac.

the media hypes kobe up for ratings. if you actually watch the games, he isnt THAT great

Well said. It's amazing to see how much influence the media has.

[King Roosk]

This celtics championship is making me very excited about trading battier and getting our own 3rd scorer next season!! i believe our top 2 are already better, we just need that one more scorer

If anything, this Celtics championship should prove to you how important Battier's DEFENSE is to our team. Defense still wins championships. We can find sufficient offensive talent without trading Battier. Hell, if Alston and Yao aren't injured for the playoffs, I think we have enough to go to the WCF at least. We were certainly playing championship caliber basketball once we got things clicking.

[tplay]

the boston 3's skills overlap so much
too many times they were all floating around mid range
(yes I know they just won a championship)
yao and t-mac are different enough that they can dominate without getting in each other's way and then fill in the rest with slop (no offense battier)

[Baller 24]

this win just proved to EVERYONe including Kobe fans that Kobe isn't god and isn't that far ahead of Paul Pierce or Tmac in terms of ability. Paul Pierce was considered nowehre close to Kobe, he destroyed Kobe this series while being surrounding by a good team. Kobe still has not win a ring without Shaq and has choked his last 2 finals apperances. He's no Jordan nor is he that much better than Pierce or Mac.

Kobe = Drexlar if anything, and NO WAY near Jordan.

This playoff series they were saying how McGrady was going away in the 4th in the first two games, but he came back in games 3 and 5 and showed up in the 4th, he did what it took. And it just shows how the Jazz aren't a very good team, when they can't sweep a team that was without its best player. Just shows up simply dominant McGrady can be when he has to. He played so well game 6, a 40 point performence, he showed up, but I guess 40 wasn't enough.

Kobe was shut down once again. And without a dominant center of power forward I don't think he can win another, after reading this I felt like making a thread lol, but I'd prolly get flammed.

[Alex_De_Large]

I don't think Kobe is better than Tmac, fact is Kobe plays more hard and don't gets injured usually, thats why he had more succes in the last 3 years.

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe > Drexler.

[tisbee]

Boston proved Defence wins Titles,not the neccessity of a third star/scoring option. For most of their Playoff run Ray Allen was MIA and KG had suprisingly mediocre scoring numbers. What they did have was several players step up in differ games and play big,esp off bench in Posey,and to a dgree House and Powe.
Interesting how everyone is assuming the "Third Star" has to be an offensive player. Battier is among the top 5 defensive wings and somehow that's not a "Star Player"?
The Rockets starters are pretty good. It's the bench that needs major upgrading. Esp. since the two best starters are injury prone.

[moofs]

Kobe is definitely more on par with Drexler than Jordan. I don't know who's better though. Kobe scores more, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[PurpleTestament]

Defense can make things easier but you have to still outscore your opponent in order to win.

I think the ideal third scorer would be a Ron Artest. A guy with just as much fire as Garnett and those guys. Michael Redd is another name I've seen thrown around but does that guy have the fire to help lead? I just see more impact by a guy like Ron-Ron who could makeup for Tracy's sleepiness and Yao's general affability on the court. The most you usually see Yao get upset is when the refs sideline him. Mac isn't much different and I think that lets some of the players off the hook a bit. I think someone should be inserted into this locker room to challenge guys rather than quietly lead.

[McGrady2Head]

Kobe won 3 titles in 8 years with a dominant dominant monster downlow in shaq. i believe t-mac, drexler, reggie miller, paul pierce, LeBron, Wade, etc could have all easily have won 3 titles with shaq also. Wade won one with an older Shaq. I dont think Kobe is really that special. He is definitely not a Michael Jordan type player. LeBron took the celtics to 7 games while playing with garbage. Kobe had a good team and only took them to 6. If anything Kobe might be in the some category as a Drexler, R. Miller, Pippen. But he aint no Jordan. Not even close

[Transistor]

I don't think we are that far from Boston.


-Self-less stars willing to share
-Role players who hustle and play hard
-Great defense
-Great chemistry
-A defensive guy who can hit open three's (Posey/Battier)
-A decent PG who keeps hearing how great all the premier PG's are in the league and how he is not one of them (Rondo/Alston)

We need more offensive firepower and HEALTH!

[King Roosk]

Kobe has a poor performance against the league's best defense and all of a sudden he's not that good? Guys, don't get delusional. Kobe Bryant's poor performance against Boston simply shows one thing: Kobe doesn't belong in the discussion with Jordan. Considering that Jordan is the best player to ever touch a basketball, I wouldn't say that's too much of a diss to Kobe. KB24 is still one of the best players the league has ever seen.

[TMU]

Kobe has a poor performance against the league's best defense and all of a sudden he's not that good? Guys, don't get delusional. Kobe Bryant's poor performance against Boston simply shows one thing: Kobe doesn't belong in the discussion with Jordan. Considering that Jordan is the best player to ever touch a basketball, I wouldn't say that's too much of a diss to Kobe. KB24 is still one of the best players the league has ever seen.

Like you said, we're talking about good as in Jordan good; which Kobe isn't. This series resembled the Lakers - Pistons series in 2004. The Lakers were on a cruise control until that last series, where they got demolished.

[King Roosk]

Kobe has a poor performance against the league's best defense and all of a sudden he's not that good? Guys, don't get delusional. Kobe Bryant's poor performance against Boston simply shows one thing: Kobe doesn't belong in the discussion with Jordan. Considering that Jordan is the best player to ever touch a basketball, I wouldn't say that's too much of a diss to Kobe. KB24 is still one of the best players the league has ever seen.

Like you said, we're talking about good as in Jordan good; which Kobe isn't. This series resembled the Lakers - Pistons series in 2004. The Lakers were on a cruise control until that last series, where they got demolished.

Well people are saying Kobe is nothing more than guys like Mac and Drexler, and I'd have to disagree. Kobe's poor play wasn't due to lack of ability, in my opinion it's because he refused to drive. I was seeing shades of Mcgrady.

[MaxRider]

Kobe has a poor performance against the league's best defense and all of a sudden he's not that good? Guys, don't get delusional. Kobe Bryant's poor performance against Boston simply shows one thing: Kobe doesn't belong in the discussion with Jordan. Considering that Jordan is the best player to ever touch a basketball, I wouldn't say that's too much of a diss to Kobe. KB24 is still one of the best players the league has ever seen.

agreed
Kobe is guarded by the whole Celtics team
nobody else on the Lakers team can actually help him

Gasol should be the one getting criticize
no wonder he's 0-12 in the playoffs before traded to the Lakers

[moofs]

Kobe has a poor performance against the league's best defense and all of a sudden he's not that good? Guys, don't get delusional. Kobe Bryant's poor performance against Boston simply shows one thing: Kobe doesn't belong in the discussion with Jordan. Considering that Jordan is the best player to ever touch a basketball, I wouldn't say that's too much of a diss to Kobe. KB24 is still one of the best players the league has ever seen.

Like you said, we're talking about good as in Jordan good; which Kobe isn't. This series resembled the Lakers - Pistons series in 2004. The Lakers were on a cruise control until that last series, where they got demolished.

Well people are saying Kobe is nothing more than guys like Mac and Drexler, and I'd have to disagree. Kobe's poor play wasn't due to lack of ability, in my opinion it's because he refused to drive. I was seeing shades of Mcgrady.

Considering that Drexler was voted top 50 and helped lead two teams to the finals with another couple going to the WCF, I'd say putting Kobe on Par with him isn't a dig at all. Kobe takes more shots, so he scores more. He has a prettier jump shot, and I'd trust him more at range. Drexler was a better defender and shot better percentages. How is that a dig? TMac and Kobe were on par for several years too, just because Kobe's obviously better at this stage (10-11 year vets) doesn't mean it was a bad comparison (not that I made it). Comparing KB to Mac for their whole careers isn't accurate though. At least Drexler played at a certain level for the bulk of his career. Kobe's probably better overall, but I can't see that meaning that it's ridiculous to say they're at roughly the same level.

[King Roosk]

Considering that Drexler was voted top 50 and helped lead two teams to the finals with another couple going to the WCF, I'd say putting Kobe on Par with him isn't a dig at all. Kobe takes more shots, so he scores more. He has a prettier jump shot, and I'd trust him more at range. Drexler was a better defender and shot better percentages. How is that a dig? TMac and Kobe were on par for several years too, just because Kobe's obviously better at this stage (10-11 year vets) doesn't mean it was a bad comparison (not that I made it). Comparing KB to Mac for their whole careers isn't accurate though. At least Drexler played at a certain level for the bulk of his career. Kobe's probably better overall, but I can't see that meaning that it's ridiculous to say they're at roughly the same level.

I was shooting the term delusional more to Mcgrady2Head who said something along the lines of, "this series proves Kobe really isn't that good" - that's flat out delusional.

You have an argument in comparing Kobe to Clyde, but what I'm saying is that Kobe is on a higher level than Clyde. You're right, Kobe shoots more thus he scores more, and Clyde shot better percentages and played better D than Kobe. However, and I was convinced long ago of this by E Wizzle, Kobe's offensive arsenal is (arguably) the best the game has ever seen. You can't make that same argument for Clyde. I don't think Kobe is as unstoppable as MJ was, but the man is possessed by something. He had a bad finals run, but don't forget the multiple 50+ point performances, Kobe's 81, Kobe shredding us everytime he faces the Rockets (aside from Battier's lockdown D for the 22nd win). Clyde was a great all-around player, but he too never won a championship without a superstar big man in Hakeem. At least Kobe's individual achievements outshine those of Drexler's.

[moofs]

Considering that Drexler was voted top 50 and helped lead two teams to the finals with another couple going to the WCF, I'd say putting Kobe on Par with him isn't a dig at all. Kobe takes more shots, so he scores more. He has a prettier jump shot, and I'd trust him more at range. Drexler was a better defender and shot better percentages. How is that a dig? TMac and Kobe were on par for several years too, just because Kobe's obviously better at this stage (10-11 year vets) doesn't mean it was a bad comparison (not that I made it). Comparing KB to Mac for their whole careers isn't accurate though. At least Drexler played at a certain level for the bulk of his career. Kobe's probably better overall, but I can't see that meaning that it's ridiculous to say they're at roughly the same level.

I was shooting the term delusional more to Mcgrady2Head who said something along the lines of, "this series proves Kobe really isn't that good" - that's flat out delusional.

You have an argument in comparing Kobe to Clyde, but what I'm saying is that Kobe is on a higher level than Clyde. You're right, Kobe shoots more thus he scores more, and Clyde shot better percentages and played better D than Kobe. However, and I was convinced long ago of this by E Wizzle, Kobe's offensive arsenal is (arguably) the best the game has ever seen. You can't make that same argument for Clyde. I don't think Kobe is as unstoppable as MJ was, but the man is possessed by something. He had a bad finals run, but don't forget the multiple 50+ point performances, Kobe's 81, Kobe shredding us everytime he faces the Rockets (aside from Battier's lockdown D for the 22nd win). Clyde was a great all-around player, but he too never won a championship without a superstar big man in Hakeem. At least Kobe's individual achievements outshine those of Drexler's.

Absolutely no argument on any of that, we're just coming to different conclusions. Kobe has a VASTLY higher ceiling than Drexler did. Because of all the tools he has that Drexler didn't, when everything gets clicking with him on the same night, look out. In that regard, no, they aren't remotely on the same plane. However, like you noticed, I am/was focusing on what they generally produced, in which I think my argument holds pretty well. (side note: for the last couple seasons, I think Kobe has averaged something like 40%/25% against us). The reason I give that the edge is because no matter how good the player is, he isn't going to be clicking on all cylinders every night, not even if it's a critical game. Now if a player can raise his game for several games in a row, which Bryant is capable of, that's another thing. Even in that situation though the player is going to have hiccups, matchups, defensive schemes and other factors resulting in occasionally not being able to pull it off - a la this series and Kobe's continually declining scoring average throughout the playoffs - so I go with the average.

[2fast4u]

you cant blame the lakers, its just that the celtics wanted it more. when was the last time the celtics won the championship? its like forever! they are long due, unlike the lakers who recently won it.. KG, allen , pierce, they all deserve to win. i mean let them taste their 1st championship. specially KG.