Where are all the Doc Haters???

[Datruth345]

Props To Doc And My Brethren Of Doc Supporters

[GuyClinch]

I wasn't a Doc believer but after listening to Pierce and others talk about his coaching - you have to be now. Doc's has proven himself right - give him talent and suddenly he will be a good coach. Because alot of NBA coaches are judged more on the talent they have then his coaching abilities. That and - the man can give a good speech.

Pete

[GonzoLays]

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!

What else needs to be said? I've been driving the Doc Rivers bandwagon before bandwagons were invented.

When this board was 90% anti-Doc, I was the lone Doc supporter. Can anyone else remember coming to his aid during the 24 win season? I think not.

Who devoted a whole thread to tell you (during the 18 game losing streak no less) that if Doc had talent around him he would win big? Who told you that? That's right...

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!

[Fencer reregistered]

Doc is a guy who focuses on the big picture at the price of letting some details slide.

That can be a pretty effective leadership style if you're right about the big picture, which is why so many conservatives feel Ronald Reagan was an absolutely great president.

And there's no question he got the big picture right this year -- teamwork, overcoming egos, defenseI

I thought when the team was young a more detail-oriented coach would have been better. But for this team, he was outstanding. Just think of that awesome season-beginning winning streak when the guys didn't have experience playing with each other.

And now that he's led them to a championship, the regard the players hold him in means he's the best coach for this team going forward.

[Tenbomber]

Congratulations to all the Celtic fans!.....You ALL deserve this win!

IMO it's never been all about being a "Doc hater" or a "Doc supporter"....It's about winning and losing....

This team knew how to win the right way! and proved it all season long!!!!!!....and there were no excuses when they lost or got squeezed by an official!!!!!!....and they were never satisfied with any lessor goal that was reached!...

That too can be said for their coach!!!....in fact I believe he was responsible for umbuto....Great team and a great coaching job! Good job Doc!... congrats Particleman!....you too Gonzo!....Congrats!

Props to Doc for a job well done!!!!! He has proved his worth as a motivator and a leader!....and a big congratulations to all of you!... Especially those who were not alive to witness any of those other banners....This one will be all yours!

This one is for you!

[campybatman]

First, I don't understand how not being a fan of a particular NBA player or head coach means you're a "hater." It's unfair and tactless, in my opinion. You've a right to like whoever you choose as a sports fan. If you're a member of the Democratic party. Are you obligated to support one candidate in place of another because the candidate you'd began supporting is no longer in the race? No. You can remain loyal to whichever party that you're align with. That doesn't suddenly go away. So, why then do other Celtics fans try to force others into liking a player or head coach that they aren't in support of to begin with? You can be a fan of a franchise but that doesn't mean you've to agree or support everything that is done and everyone that's involved in the direction of that franchise. That would be foolish to believe that. People have just as much of a right to an opinion as the next person and are entitled to like or be a fan of whoever they dig in the NBA or any sport. People on this board dislike those who can speak up for themselves and have their own opinion. No, they aren't followers. Am I a Glenn Rivers supporter? No. I don't agree with what he does on the court with players enough of the time. I'm no more a fan of him than I'm of Kevin Garnett. But, that doesn't mean I hate him or Garnett. I'm just not a fan of either of them. That's it. No hatred there to be found. The NBA has a lot of different personalities and what have you that you've choices of who to root for and who not to. Everyone on this planet unlikely likes every single flavor of ice cream, I would think.

Secondly, I concur with the prevailing notion, as heard on WEEI (The Big Show), that the head coach is more important in the NFL than he's in the NBA. The NBA is a players' league or more to the point: A star driven league. Rivers hasn't changed his coaching style or what he was doing in previous seasons as Boston's head coach all that much or in this season by his own admission. Simply, he'd received better players to coach thanks to Danny Ainge. The players lead by Pierce, Garnett, (Ray) Allen, Posey, Brown and House deserve more credit then Rivers. It's no coincidence that the Celtics had the best turnaround in NBA history when Ainge acquired help for Pierce and added better bench players. Yes, Rivers had to be the leader and motivator to these Celtics players and he was aided in doing this by an upgraded coaching staff with the addition of Tom Thibodeau. But, it still comes down to the players. Head coaches can only motivate and instruct. The players are the participants in these regular season and post season games. They make or break the outcome. Again, the NBA isn't the NFL. The Patriots need Bill Belichick even more then they need Tom Brady. They must have both as the foundation of any success they could have today. But, it begins with Belichick for that team. Rivers could be replaced and the Celtics could've similar success this season. However, the players like Rivers so maybe that can be debatable. But, I stand by my opinion. I mean Rivers is one of the highest paid head coaches but isn't one of the league's best head coaches. His worth is more to the Celtics ownership and Ainge than to other franchises in the NBA. And if all of what I'd written here labels me a "hater" by the inevitable mob scene on this board. Then it's a sad day that a Celtics fan can't say what he believes in without being belittled or criticized by the majority on here. That's really unfortunate that division still exist even among the same sports fans.

[wigglestrue]

Where are all the Doc haters? Eating! (Crow.) (Yum.)

[ParticleMan]

The "Doc hater" idea (i may have been one of the main users of this phrase, if not the originator) isn't about having reasonable and valid opinions that are negative of Doc. It's about what I think are absolutely irrational reasons to think Doc is idiotic, oblivious, and hurting the team. Things like "he subbed Rondo for House 56 seconds too late - FIRE DOC!!!" and "Doc should have used Baby not Powe for those 3 minutes!". It's ridiculous, nitpicky things that totally miss the far more important contributions that Doc makes. It's basically that, instead of trying to understand what Doc is seeing and doing, it's just hating on him because what he did didn't end up working, without ever giving him credit when things actually works well (oh it's the players, oh it's Thib, oh any moron would have done that...) Doc haters are quick to blame Doc for everything that goes badly, even on a minute-by-minute basis during a game, but very slow to give any credit to Doc when things go well.

bonsai i think you hit the nail on the head about NBA vs NFL coaches. but i wouldn't say it's that Doc is less important, and that it's easy to do that job compared to say Belichick's. Doc is just as important as Belichick, but it takes different skills in the NBA vs the NFL. NFL coaches seem more important to fans because they affect games more DURING the games, and fans for the most part only watch the team DURING games. For an NBA coach, I've tried to argue many times, 95% of the work goes on outside of gametime. After tipoff it's almost all on the players. But the preparation that goes into that, mentally, physically, emotionally, that's what the coaches can turn around. Coaches ARE important- just not in the way that is apparent to most fans. Ainge himself has said this repeatedly.

I think baseball coaches are a lot more similar to NBA coaches. Francon(m)a gets a lot of the same flak that Doc does- doesn't substitute right, does things that seem bizarre, goes by the "seat of his pants". But there's a method to the madness. There's a reason why he doesn't play young kids even though they look better than vets when they play. There's a reason why he sticks with guys even when they are sucking. There's good reasons for all these things. They're just not apparent to most fans. But when you think about team-building, about long-term benefits, about player dynamics, most of these moves make sense. They often don't makes sense about winning this particular game, but lots of times that's not what it's about.

I like Doc because I think he has managed the players and franchise extremely well. When he was asked to develop players, he did. When he was asked to showcase players, he did. When he was asked to build around Paul Pierce, he turned Pierce into the player we all hoped he would be. When he was asked to win games, he's actually been very successful at it, like during our run to the playoffs a few years ago. Then of course, this year. To me it's all about results. We wouldn't be in the position we're in now had Doc not developed players, had Doc not turned Pierce around, had he not worked with Ainge to move guys. It's about WAY more than some dumb substitution pattern or calling timeouts during runs. It's managing the franchise and the players in a way that ensures long-term success. Doc has been very good at this imo. He's as big a reason we have #17 as Ainge, KG, Pierce, Ray, etc etc.

[grantlongforpresident]

Even a blind squirel finds a nut every now and then.

Doc has his strengths. He is a great motivator. He is patient with young players. He is good with the press. Players tend to like and respect him. He works the refs well. He doesn't try to be the GM. Guys play hard for him. Lockerroom and other internal issues stay internal.

Doc has his weaknesses. He is a subpar game manager. He is a poor defensive coach. Thank goodness for Thib. His substitutions are often questionable. His lineups are inconsistent. He has a tendency to get outcoached (not in this series, but nearly in the Hawks and Cav's series - we'd be singing a different tune had PJ Brown not been the absolute F'in man in that one game vs. Cleveland).

He also tends to make bizzare decisions. Just in the playoffs alone: Big Baby hadn't played ALL playoffs and he is logging big minutes in the final game. Powe hadn't played in forever and then goes nuts when Doc puts him in. Cassell was consistently awful and he kept throwing him out there. One time he tried House (after Cassell's 0-17 streak) and he and it made a huge difference. House barely played before that and became a serious impact player. etc. etc. etc.

Doc isn't going to make a team overachieve but he will take a great team and "not screw it up." Props to Doc for the victory, I'll give him credit, he was the coach of a team that won 66 games and our NBA championship - but i've sworn at the TV way to many times (this year AND previous years) to say he is a "Great" coach.

[campybatman]

Interestingly, my feelings are similar toward Ainge that they're toward Rivers. I'll say, frustrating... I get frustrated with both of them. However, Ainge has also impressed me by his success rate in drafting young players and how he was able to do a trade to correct the mistakes of previous trades. While I can give credit to the job Rivers did in the NBA finals despite the national media giving the coaching edge in the series to Jackson--I did too. But, who's smiling now? Rivers. Then good for him. I was wrong in that sense or in general about him as a capable NBA head coach. Evidently, having the support of an entire roster goes a long way. It begins with the team's captain and ideally his teammates will follow suit. Will Rivers frustrate me again? Of course, but when are head coaches ever that popular to fans? I'll say collegiate head coaches are more popular then a NBA head coach. They're celebrities in the NCAA. Well, they actually have a salary and students have...

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

When this board was 90% anti-Doc, I was the lone Doc supporter. Can anyone else remember coming to his aid during the 24 win season? I think not.

Me. I'm also pretty confident particle man and a few others also supported him.

[sully00]

Look, I am sorry if you want to disagree about a decision Doc makes, that cool. But this idea that he isn't a good game manager is based on what? A second guess that never happened, how do you have a clue whether you subsitution would have worked? Doc isn't a good defensive coach? Based on what. When he had bad defenders he got them to play better defense than they did before and they do now that they aren't here. All a Coach can do is hold his players accountable. If Doc has good defenders they play great defense. I saw Phil Jackson coach one of the best defensive teams I have ever seen in CHI and I just saw him coach that indifferent squad of ole's, which is he a great defensive coach or a bad one?

I have pointed out the nonsense of it is Tom Thibadeau's defense before. He was in HOU last season they were good, this year they were better guess what they had a coach famous for not being a good defensive Head Coach. Perhaps Shane Battier and team full of good individual and team defenders has more to do with it than the coaching. I am not saying that Tom didn't do a good job but to give him the credit I guess that would mean when we were bad it was all Tony Brown's fault and Doc doesn't have anything to do with it anyhow, right?

Is Doc a great coach now? I don't know but I think that he was a lot better than he got credit for prior to winning this championship and the players and teams he had a lot more to do with the outcome.

At least now he is certified.

[wigglestrue]

There really haven't been many people more vocally anti-Doc than me over the years, and even I have to accept that he's at the very least a good NBA coach, a competent game manager, and a great manager of men. Like everyone else has been saying, the Francona of basketball.

[Bad-Thoma]

I was going to start a similar thread after the game, but I saw it was already up. I was too drunk to respend then, but now finally I get to say GO DOC!! I've always liked him as a coach, and next time I stick up for him I'll have an easier time of it. He did a great job in the finals.

[Bad-Thoma]

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!

What else needs to be said? I've been driving the Doc Rivers bandwagon before bandwagons were invented.

When this board was 90% anti-Doc, I was the lone Doc supporter. Can anyone else remember coming to his aid during the 24 win season? I think not.

Who devoted a whole thread to tell you (during the 18 game losing streak no less) that if Doc had talent around him he would win big? Who told you that? That's right...

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!

I've always stuck up for Doc, feel free to look back and check.

[tlee324]

Gonzo really wasn't supporting Doc in the beginning, he just said Coaching doesn't matter that much.

I feel given this level of talent, Doc couldn't mess this one up, and he didn't. VERY glad to see this occur...

[GuyClinch]

^^^ Agreed. I can't get over Gonzo trying to paint himself as a Doc booster. He just told us that coaching doesn't matter. I disagree.

Doc Rivers is a motivator of men. The way the C's played D - and they way they wanted to win so badly. You have to give some of that credit to Doc.

And while I never believed Doc was a great coach. I did know that GOD couldn't coach that sorry roster we had last year.

Pete

[armageddon]

Doc still has his warts but he's also still improving. He's always been a players coach which is good. He also has way better assistants this year which was smart of him. It still took him until the 26th playoff game to go back to his regular season bench rotation. Congrats.

[Dirty Water]

There really haven't been many people more vocally anti-Doc than me over the years, and even I have to accept that he's at the very least a good NBA coach, a competent game manager, and a great manager of men. Like everyone else has been saying, the Francona of basketball.

To be honest that's all you need. With a talented team, it's all motivation, and less X's and O's.

[GuyClinch]

Someone on the C's seems to know X's and O's. They usually run nice plays off of time outs. From the outside we don't know what is going on. Maybe before Doc had nice plays for his team but they just botched them..

Pete