If Pierce is a top ten player...

[campybatman]

Where would you rank him and who would you list among the other nine players in this ranking?

I ask because I recall, I can't find an article with the quotes if he was quoted, that it was brought up during the NBA finals that Pierce believes he's a top ten player in the league. And it was brought up again during the last game now that the Boston Celtics have won a championship. Do you agree that Pierce is (or was prior to this season's playoffs) among the top ten best players in the league? For me, I say yes he's a top ten player before the Celtics made the playoffs this season. I'll say that it takes a special player to carry a franchise as long as Pierce has in Boston. Before this season, similarly to LeBron, Pierce help lead the Celtics back to the playoffs and reaching the eastern conference finals. Where James had Ilgauskas and some changeable parts in teammates last season. Pierce had Walker and teammates working all on the same page. Boston helped themselves by playing team defense but fell short of their goal to make the NBA finals to a better opponent. Furthermore, a lot of critics will say that if you're a player on a team that is awful but you put up big numbers. Then that doesn't say much other than you put up big numbers on a bad team. Pierce isn't one of these players that has done so and not at least gotten named to a few All-Star games or lead a team to the playoffs more than once. He's a perennial All-Star player that is often overlooked when the national media discusses the top tier players around the NBA due in part to the bad seasons that Pierce was a part of. I mean you can't hold that against Pierce when he hasn't lead those teams to championships. Right, you measure a star player's greatness among his peers by the number of championships he'd won in his career. With that said, Pierce has had little to no real help until this season. That isn't an excuse. It's a fact. Many examples in professional sports can be cited to support this claim. For instance, in basketball, Wade was helped in winning a NBA finals by the addition of S. O'Neal like D. Robinson was helped in accomplishing the same by the drafting of Duncan. Or Elway that finally won multiple Super Bowls with the drafting of Terrell Davis among other things. Every star player past and present needs help in having a solid bench of role players and a peer in the starting line up that equals or is better than you from a talent standpoint in order to really succeed at becoming a champion. And it doesn't hurt to have yourself a defensive mastermind such as Tom Thibodeau.

Here's my top ten players in the NBA and not just based on this season. Add your own list if you disagree. The point is to see where you would place Pierce in your list if you would have him in it to begin with. I would...


10. Jason Kidd G - The second overall selection in 1994. Lead Nets to two NBA finals.
9. Chris Paul G - The fourth selection in 2005.
8. Dwyane Wade G - The fifth selection in 2003. A NBA Champion. A NBA finals MVP winner.
7. Dirk Nowitzki F - The ninth selection in 1998. Lead Mavericks to a NBA finals. A league MVP winner.
6. Paul Pierce F - The tenth selection in 1998. A NBA champion. A NBA finals MVP winner.
5. Steve Nash - G - The fifteenth selection in 1996. A two-time league MVP winner.
4. Kevin Garnett F - The fifth selection in 1995. A NBA champion. A league MVP winner.
3. LeBron James F - The first overall selection in 2003. Lead Cavaliers to a NBA finals.
2. Kobe Bryant G - The thirtieth selection in 1996. A three-time NBA champion. A league MVP winner.
1. Tim Duncan F/C - The first overall selection in 1997. A four-time NBA champion and three-time NBA finals MVP winner. A two-time league MVP winner.

[spudwebb]

Here's my top ten players in the NBA and not just based on this season

If it's not just based on this season but on their careers then.........Shaq would probably be #1 and Iverson would be above Nash. How can you include a past his prime Kidd and forget a past their prime Shaq and Iverson

[campybatman]

Kidd isn't past his prime, in my opinion. He'd averaged a triple-double throughout the playoffs last season. It was an adjustment period for him this season being traded to another team in the middle of the season. I expect him to be better next season as he begins to get better acclimated with his teammates and to a new head coach. As for Iverson, it's debatable as anyone else I'd chosen not to include. It's one's own opinion. Posters spend so much time criticizing one another instead of contributing to a thread by writing their own list or expressing their own opinions.

Remember, this is My Top Ten and not Your's. If you'd bothered to read my entire post. You would've read where I'd written, "Add your own list if you disagree."

[Fencer reregistered]

Based on what I expect next season, if healthy:

1. Lebron James. Near the top already and still improving.
2. Chris Paul. Ditto.
3. Kevin Garnett. Ditto! I think the lesson about being more aggressive at scoring will stick.
4. Kobe Bryant. Best overall scorer in the league, and no slouch at defense. Has toned down his toxic personality, but it's still a negative.
5. Tim Duncan. I'm guessing he has another bounceback in him.
6. Paul Pierce. Second- or third-best overall scorer in the league (Wade is the other candidate), although Lebron may pass him soon. Has proven to be an outstanding defender as well.
7. Dwayne Wade. Could be lower, because each time he comes back from injury it's to a different team, and that may rattle him in the short term.
8. Steve Nash. One of the top offensive players in the league, at a position that stresses offense. But a defensive liability.
9. Dirk Nowitzki. Great offense, questionable defense.

So far, in other words, we're in pretty close agreement; I just am using slightly different criteria than you are.

And I'll stop there. I think those guys are in a class above the rest. None of those 9 would be a great shock if he won the MVP award. Anybody else would be -- even Kidd, after his post-trade performance.

[GuyClinch]

Tim Duncan isn't that good anymore. You got to slip him way down the list. <g> Heck I take Dwight Howard over him any day of the week.. Manu and Parker get too little credit for that teams success. Duncan can't run and can't hit a free throw. A player like that is never the best at basketball.

[cloverleaf]

Yep, I think Dwight Howard is already up there.

The thing with Pierce is he doesn't have more skills, strength or youth than he had over the past several years, but only this year do I put him in the top 10 and well up the list. That's because he has matured in how he plays and he has committed himself to defense and team play. Doc gets some credit for chipping away at the guy's earlier bad habits, but KG gets heaps of credit, in my mind, for setting the tone that Pierce needed. Talk about making your teammates better! In turn now, Pierce's example may help KG to be more of a big-time 4th quarter player: it will be interesting to see.

[sully00]

To me this list is so fluid, it is meaningless if you continue to factor in previous years, especially at the top. If you are injured you are off the list, down year off the list. I also don't think it makes sense to overrate a player's value because of the postition they play.

1. LeBron James - We saw it for our own eyes, the only real threat to Boston this season.

2. Kevin Garnett - After having this dude for a season there is just no doubt in my mind. He is defensively as good as anyone is offensively and offensively better than anyone else is on defense.

3. Kobe Bryant - I hate putting him here, because I don't think he is nearly as good offensively as he is given credit for. But he is a heck of a defender and is just a physical marvel.

4. Paul Pierce - Like I said this list is fluid and last year Paul was in the land of T-Mac (once a top 5 guy), D Wade is there now.

5. Chris Paul - I don't know if he is better than Williams or not but his team made it further.

6. Tim Duncan - Not the same player offensively but still is defensively.

7. Deron Williams - Kid is the flat out best combo of passer and shooter in the game.

8. Dwight Howard - He has it defensively but is still a step away from the top 5 offensively but he is coming fast.

9. Amare Stoudamire - I am shocked not to see him on this list more. He is the best offensively big man in the game and while needing to improve defensively he showed how much more effective he could be at the PF position.

10. Dirk Nowitzki - A top 5 player the last two years but his defense isn't getting better and his offensively game isn't developing. We watched how Pierce is able to guard him and that just can't happen. lacks the ability to dominate, more Tom Chambers than Larry Bird.

[campybatman]

An extension of my top ten list.

15. Baron Davis G - The third selection in the 1999.
14. Yao Ming C - The first overall selection in 2002.
13. Allen Iverson G - The first overall selection in 1996. Lead the 76ers to a NBA finals. A league MVP winner.
12. Dwight Howard C/F - The first overall selection in 2004.
11. Shaquille O'Neal C - The first overall selection in 1992. A three-time NBA finals MVP winner. A league MVP winner.

20. Carmelo Anthony - The third selection in 2003.
19. Deron Williams G - The third selection in 2005.
18. Ray Allen - The fifth selection in 1996. A NBA champion.
17. Amare Stoudemire F - The ninth selection in 2002.
16. Elton Brand F - The first overall selection in 1999.

[jfs1000d]

First off, Amare belong no where near the list. No one goes into a Suns game and says" We have to control Amare Stourdmire."

Most teams want to cut off Nash and Shaq now, and before that Marion.

Anyhow, I don't look at it top 10, because you can go many different ways. What I think is that Paul PIerce is now the third best wing in the NBA.

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Paul Pierce

He gets there over Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade, Joe Johson and Tracy McGrady, and Vince Carter.

Here is the funny thing:

For his entire career Pierce has always been considered somehow the lesser player between Vinsanity and Tracy McGrady. When you stack up careers, Paul's has always been much more consistent and durable even before this year.

Pierce is more consistent than VC and a better all-around player, while he is more durable than McGrady (durability is an underrated attribute for great players. If you get hurt and miss a lot of games, then you can't be great. McGrady gets hurt an awful lot. That's a factor). I think Pierce is better than Melo right now for the fact that Pierce gets it and melo is still trying to figure out 25 ppg doesn't mean you are great.

Pierce could average 26 ppg if he wanted to, he has done it before and his game is much better than it was way back when he did.

[Fencer reregistered]

Good call on Dwight Howard. He was the missing #10 from my list.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

From an outsider's opinion, I'd say it's close.

These guys are definitely in the top 10 in my opinion:

LeBron
Kobe
KG
CP3
Dwight Howard

After that it gets kind of difficult, because there are some older players like Nash, Duncan, and Dirk, who were definitely top 10 a couple years ago, but might not be anymore. And where does Amare fit, without Nash? What about a healthy Yao or Wade? Does Deron Williams belong up there too?

One could certainly argue that Pierce is top 10, but if not, he's definitely top 15.

[campybatman]

Here is the funny thing:

For his entire career Pierce has always been considered somehow the lesser player between Vinsanity and Tracy McGrady. When you stack up careers, Paul's has always been much more consistent and durable even before this year.

Well, if you can recall Pierce's rookie season or feel like viewing his statistics that season versus Vince Carter. You'll think: Pierce could've been co-ROY at worst. That is to say, Pierce and Carter were neck and neck. You could've voted for either one, really.

Honestly, I don't believe either Stoudemire or Anthony deserve to be among the names on my list. However, I was somewhat looking at it from a talent standpoint and felt that one could argue in favor of their inclusion. So, I'd included them. I wanted to have Camby on my list. He deserves the nod. Yeah, Camby and a player like Jamison could replace both of them.

[sully00]

First off, Amare belong no where near the list. No one goes into a Suns game and says" We have to control Amare Stourdmire."

Most teams want to cut off Nash and Shaq now, and before that Marion.

Then may be why that is why the Suns win all those games. The dude puts up 25/9 on 60% shooting. He he leads the NBA in TS%. Shaq scored less than 13 ppg in PHX. Nobody even guards Marion.

The fact that he isn't on your list would kind of put a value on your list.

[LongTimeFan]

I looked at the net PER for each player

1.James______+19.2
2.Garnett____+16.0
3.Ginobilli____+15.1
4.Paul_______+14.3
5.Bryant_____+14.0
6.Billups_____+12.6
7.Howard____+12.5
8.Nowitzki___+12.0
9.Bosh_______+11.8
10.Duncan___+11.6
11.Yao______+11.0
12. Pierce___+10.2

So I'd say he's very close to top ten. Bynum came in slihtly ahead of Pierce at +10.3, but I disallowed him because he didn't play the entire season.

[MalReyn]

3 young'uns are clearly on the list:
Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
Lebron James

And (in my opinion) 3 veterans clearly are as well:
Kobe
Garnett
Duncan (I know he's older, but his presence is undeniable).

After that, another dozen players can compete for the remaining spots, Pierce certainly among them.

[campybatman]

Do fans still believe Garnett is the main attraction for potential free agents or can you begin to add Pierce's name as well? Surely, other players around the league must understand that the Celtics don't hold off the Lakers without a Pierce. Garnett's the emotional leader on defense but Pierce remains the captain of the team. I know a lot of people insist that Garnett will be the reason free agents want to play for Boston. But, give Pierce some credit too. Both Bryant and L. James are fans of his, so I'm certain that if they were lesser players. Definitely, they'll see Pierce as a competitive player they'll want to be a teammate with.

[KyleCleric]

Do fans still believe Garnett is the main attraction for potential free agents or can you begin to add Pierce's name as well? Surely, other players around the league must understand that the Celtics don't hold off the Lakers without a Pierce. Garnett's the emotional leader on defense but Pierce remains the captain of the team. I know a lot of people insist that Garnett will be the reason free agents want to play for Boston. But, give Pierce some credit too. Both Bryant and L. James are fans of his, so I'm certain that if they were lesser players. Definitely, they'll see Pierce as a competitive player they'll want to be a teammate with.

the main attraction is that the Celtics are a great team, the NBA champions with great superstars and a great group of role players. the Celtics then are an awesome opportunity for a free agent to have a great chance at a championship.

[wigglestrue]

I think you can add everything about the team as attractions. Players see a championship window first and foremost, then KG, then Paul and Ray, and then a player's coach, then a little core of young players for the future, bench cohesion, crazy loyal fans, revived tradition. But it's all about whether players think the Celtics can win a championship or not. My thinking is, lol, the answer is going to be YES, whichever player winds up asking that of himself this summer.

Top 10 players in the league...hmmm:

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Garnett
4. Paul
5. Duncan
6. Howard
7. Wade
8. Dirk
9. Pierce
10. I have no idea, doesn't matter.

Wow, he really is top 10. I mentally tried to keep him off, failed.

[jfs1000d]

Amare isn't as good as his numbers. Most NBA types have come to see that. He never dominates the game.

I think,like marion, style of play inflates him a bit. I just don't find Amare impossible to guard. Good scorer and finisher. He is a tad overrated.

[campybatman]

...crazy loyal fans...

For that reason, some players might not want to deal with the tough Boston media and the hypercritical Boston fans. Some players "crack" in large media markets.