Is Dalembert A Suitable PF Option?

[SendEm]

This thought came into my mind when thinking about the frontcourts that the Lakers and Trailblazers will be putting on the floor for the next several seasons and how they very well may be the CHIP teams of the future. Having Dalembert at center to go along with a modern day PF BUILT like Horford, Bosh, or even Marion will certainly place us at a disadvantage. We have seen Dalembert for the entire season respectably guard the absolute best frontcourt players in the NBA from Garnett to Al Jefferson to Sheed to D. Howard while getting embarrassed by Bynum. We already have Thad who can guard the hybrid power forwards that all of these losing non championship teams trod out on the court, so why are we killing ourselves looking for the next Elton Brand and Al Jefferson when acquiring a player like Andrew Bogut or Chris Kaman and moving Dalembert to PF to become a Theo Ratliff might be an ingenious move?

Surely this would be better than the suggestions of bringing Z-Bo, CV, Tyrus Thomas, Speights, NeNe, and Chris Wilcox to town to play PF. I know that Dalembert is a far better option at PF than any of those guys.

Acquiring Bogut or Kaman might in reality require trading away Dalembert in that very same deal, but opening the door of Dalembert as a PF option could be a thinking outside of the box method of bringing a superior frontcourt to town.

[wow444]

No

[phiphan]

Defensively, maybe. Offensively, no. Look at the playoffs this year -- it's almost prerequisite to have an offensively gifted PF if you want to advance past the 1st round.

[corwin]

You know, I've been having the same thought about Sammy but I don't see it as either center or power forward kind of argument.

On offense, Sam can hit the open jumper, averages 3.7 offensive rebounds per game & he can dunk if the alley oops are thrown well. He can move w/o the ball at times. He hasn't developed a low post move & his ability to set picks is pathetic.

On defense, he rebounds, anchors the defense, & has shown some ability to chase his man around on the perimeter. He doesn't pick up the gratuitous fouls that he picked up when CWuss was here since Moses taught him to avoid some of those & since most of the forwards at least try to guard their man (Please no Zbo). He does get moved around by bulkier guys.

So where does that leave the team? We need a guy with bulk & enough size to hold his position. A post move would help. The player has to also want to be good defensively. In the draft, the Lopez brothers, & Koufos have the size. Hickson, Love & Speights supposedly have the inside games but to me seem like PFs. McGee is huge, motivated & has tremendous upside. I guess the same could be said about Jordan but I haven't been impressed when I've seen him play. Ajinca is also raw. Then there is Hibbert who has all of those characteristics & is ready to play (lower upside though). I guess Ed could make a run at the RFA class of Biedrins, Krstic, or Okafor. Krstic would be the only one that might come cheap though.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Dalembert can play PF defensively against only a handful of players. His lateral quickness/BBIQ is horrible for a PF. Have you even watched him try and guard a player who can pull him away from the basket? All it takes is one step and his man blows by him like Sam's feet are stuck in quick sand. Sometime Sam can recover and get a block from beind the play, but most times he winds up way out of position and gives up easy shots. Sam should not be matchup up against anyone who can pull him outside (and there's a lot more PF's in the NBA that do that than C's). Sam's IQ is awful on the pick and roll...he has no idea who he is supposed to guard once he gets picked. Most times he winds up in no man's land and isn't guarding either player (see the Detroit series for proof of this). As a PF, he's going to be the guy defending the Pick and roll way more than he would be as a C.

Sam's strength as a defender is playing near the rim and defending the basket. It would make very little sense to having him playing outside more and exposing his weaknesses. Now maybe if the C optoin is a guy who can defend the 4, it would work, but if you are talking about acquiring a "big" C to defend the Dwight Howard types, then that C is not likely to me the most mobile guy on the court. Also, if Sam is playing PF on offense, then that C better be an very good to great low post scorer. You can not have 2 offensively challenged post players at PF and C and expect to do any damage against the better teams in the league.

[Skates]

Sammy needs a frontcourt mate that complements his strengths and weaknesses. If it is someone that is built solidly and tall enough I would not worry about positions. Lots of teams have played with front court players labeled one thing, but playing another at least part of the time. If we get a guy like Brand Sammy might spend some of his time guarding opposing PF's with Brand guarding the C, depending on the match-up. I don't know that matching Sammy up with a big plodding C like Hibbert would be a good idea, but Sammy is athletic enough to be a multipositional-player depending on match-ups if he has the right starting and bench partners. Really is Sheed or Duncan a C or PF? Who cares, they play where and how the team needs them and where they match uo best.

If we get a good PF/C with a post-game I do wonder what Sammy will do on offense. He's not a classic high-post guy nor does he have a reliable jump-shot. Would he be happy hanging around the weakside of the paint looking for garbage baskets? Probably not. That is where he may have issues no matter what position he is playing.

[SendEm]

Good post The Sixer Fixer. I would like for people to deal less with theory and more with actual facts. Like what PF in the NBA actually pulled Dalembert away from the basket and made him look foolish?

I figure the best at that are Garnett, Bosh, Dirk, Boozer, Amare and Sheed. The only time I recall Dalembert getting used all season came in the games against Bynum and Gasol who both out muscled him in the paint. Guys like Josh Smith and Marion never will count because you can't actually win a CHIP with a SF hiding at PF plus we have Thad. A frontcourt of Bogut or Kaman and Dalembert/Thad/Evans will win in a seven game series against Josh Smith/Horford, Boozer/Okur, Shaq/Amare, Bosh/Bargs.

Bynum/Gasol, Alderidge/Oden/Frye/J.Przybilla, Garnett/Perkins are the frontcourts of the future.

Also we have never seen Dalembert guard a pick and role as a PF, what we have seen is him being preoccupied with protecting the basket area. This would change once we put a shot blocking threat on the court at the same time as him like Kaman or Bogut. Of course a young healthy Brand or Al Jefferson would certainly be the perfect players to complement Dalembert. But Kaman and Bogut seem to be options that can get the job done in a way not yet considered. Also these two players aren't exactly non mobile centers with low basketball IQ's. They both pass the ball well and can defend PF's (unlike Mutombo and Yao).

[philbe311]

Sammy needs a frontcourt mate that complements his strengths and weaknesses. If it is someone that is built solidly and tall enough I would not worry about positions.

I couldn't agree more. People get caught up in whether a player is a 4 or a 5, or a 2 or a 3. Can they play basketball? Give me somebody to play next to same that is athletic, has some post moves, and is strong, and you can him a ballerina for all I care.

[76erinSJ]

This would be a stupid move. How long did it take Sammy to get decent at center? Now you want to make him have to learn a whole new position? Sammy is our Center. Period. Who ever we bring in will play PF.

[PhenomThad31]

Dalembert doesnt have the offensive low post moves to become a PF on a winning team. He would be a force to be reckoned with on defense but offensively...yikes.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Also we have never seen Dalembert guard a pick and role as a PF, what we have seen is him being preoccupied with protecting the basket area. This would change once we put a shot blocking threat on the court at the same time as him like Kaman or Bogut.

Never??

You should re-watch the Detroit playoff series. Dalembert was the guy on the perimter trying to defend Sheed/Billups when they used the pick and roll on almost every possession. Dalembert was caught out of position on a routine basis. It was either billups blowing right by him or him leaving Sheed wide open for 3 pt shots. Sure others (Thad/Evans) were trying to defend that play too, but Sam was one of the main culprits.

[SendEm]

Also we have never seen Dalembert guard a pick and role as a PF, what we have seen is him being preoccupied with protecting the basket area. This would change once we put a shot blocking threat on the court at the same time as him like Kaman or Bogut.

Never??

You should re-watch the Detroit playoff series. Dalembert was the guy on the perimter trying to defend Sheed/Billups when they used the pick and roll on almost every possession. Dalembert was caught out of position on a routine basis. It was either billups blowing right by him or him leaving Sheed wide open for 3 pt shots. Sure others (Thad/Evans) were trying to defend that play too, but Sam was one of the main culprits.

I really don't want to talk in circles this early in the morning. We haven't seen Dalembert guard a pick and role with a shotblocker in the paint. What we have seen is Dalembert BE REQUIRED to do both at the same time kinda like a free safety on a play action pass. With a Kaman or Bogut in the paint the technique used by Dalembert would certainly be different. Also Josh Smith looks similarly caught in limbo being the only shot blocker for that team. Billups would blow by any PF that has ever existed in the history of professional basketball so I do not see your point there. Also the aged Andre Miller and his poor on ball defense had a major part to play in Billups living in the paint as the series progressed. Also with two mobile shot blockers like Dalembert and Kaman/Bogut some unique zone defenses can be created and the perimeter defenders can gamble 10 times more because there are at least 2 people on the floor that can defend the basket.

And to the other poster, What low post moves does Dalembert lack potentially at PF that he doesn't have at C?

[PhenomThad31]

And to the other poster, What low post moves does Dalembert lack potentially at PF that he doesn't have at C?

none, which is why we need a PF that can do something with the rock down low. a lineup of Bogut/Dalembert/Thad/Iggy/Miller is an absolute joke offensively and if they somehow slipped in as the 8th seed in the playoffs would not score 80 a game on the Pistons or Celtics. However a lineup of Dalembert/Randolph(a guy who can actually do something offensively)/Thad/Iggy/Miller can make it past the first round with ease and lock up 4th seed IMO.

[SendEm]

LOL in YOUR world we're supposedly only good for 80ppg with Bogut, Dalembert, and Thad but somehow we did better than that with Evans, Dalembert, and Thad...I'm glad that I live in THIS world.
BTW Bogut was 6th in the entire NBA with ppg in the paint.

[tk76]

I agree that Sam could work well alongside another C/PF who complements his skills- but I do see Skates concern about Sam never having a place on offense.

Sam really can't play in the low block. As for the high post, he can sometimes hit an elbow jumper, but not at a great percentage, and the ball movement stops at Dalembert. If he could make decent decisions from the high post I would be more comfortable- but all to often he tries to force a fancy pass or make a silly drive.

Basically Sams biggest deficiency on offense is not his lack of tools, but his overblown sense what what he can do. he rarely makes the simple pass. He always seems to want to make some great play that is beyond his skill level.

Sam does best when he stays close to the basket- making himself available for dishes off of drives, oops and O-Boards. That leaves little room for another center to operate in the low block.

I guess that means Sam would work better next to an outside shooting center (Koufos?)- especially if the player is a good passer.

Ultimately, I would go for a Center who can primarily back up Sam, and play next to him for spots where they need to go big. Hopefully then in 2-3 years the new player can replace Sam as starting center when Sam's contract expires. If Jordan falls, he might be the right player to groom as Sam's replacement.

[SendEm]

All great points TK76 especially about the ball movement stopping at Dalembert. But you can't overlook that Dalembert in actuality doesn't score many points in the paint per game, it's 5.9 compared to Bogut's 10.6. What's happening is that Dalembert is developing his midrange shooting ability which is at .355% compared to Iguodala's .381%. Sammy isn't a finished product yet and I believe that he can do many of the things that Ratliff, PJ Brown and Haslem have done at PF.
Also we would no longer have Dalembert as the center of the offense where his "passing" would be on full display, it would be Bogut or Kaman in that position. Dalembert can shoot the ball in the same realm as what PJ Brown, Haslem and Horace Grant have done.In a few seasons he should be approaching that Horace Grant level of shooting.

Uninformed people automatically think that someone like Z-bo is a better scorer than Bogut in the paint when that is not the reality and the statistics can prove it. Randolph only scored 7.4 points in the paint on .583% while Bogut got 10.6 on .570. Gasol scored 10.6 in the paint and Al Jefferson 10.7. Let's upgrade our info on these players people and stop posting misinformation based on common perceptions.

[corwin]

Ultimately, I would go for a Center who can primarily back up Sam, and play next to him for spots where they need to go big. Hopefully then in 2-3 years the new player can replace Sam as starting center when Sam's contract expires. If Jordan falls, he might be the right player to groom as Sam's replacement.

It's hard to judge these young players but since this draft has some decent looking young bigs, this may be the best course of action. McGee, Jordan, Kouros, Robin Lopez, & Ajinca all could be groomed as back-up centers & perhaps some-day starters. Let DiLeo decide. Besides, it is highly unlikely that Mo lets any of them get any time on the court any time soon.

[tk76]

I will be fine with the back-up center approach (although a month ago I thought Thabeet might be the best project) if the team can go out and trade or sign a PF.

If we drafted any of the back-up centers you listed and then got Brand I would be ecstatic. If we got a lesser PF like Wilcox I would still be good with drafting a developmental C who at least would be an upgrade to Booth.

[SendEm]

I wonder if the Bucks would trade Bogut for Iggy.

[psykosacul]

i think the reason id rather see sam at center is because the skills needed to compliment him are most likely to be found in a PF. if we bring in a center, its likely that he wont have much offense. there are many more pryzbillas and boguts in the league than bynums. most centers cant really score much. having a starting front court made up of two guys who are rarely a threat to score more than 13 points doesnt appeal to me too much. teams could really start to lay off of their front court pressure and focus more on doubling our wing men and guards. i like the idea of a 20 point post man like brand or boozer next to dalembert. a wide body to bang with the larger players in the league, which allows sammy to roam and block weakside shots. and instead of wondering how sam would play the pick and roll if someone was behind him blocking shots, id like to bring someone in to play the pick and roll and know that SAM is back there to block shots... because he is pretty damn good at it.