Longterm plan for turning the Warriors into contenders

[Souvlaki]

I can't believe people want to put Bibby alongside Monta. Our defense is bad enough with just Monta, with Bibby it would be atrocious. We didn't make the playoffs last year because our defense was horrible, not the scoring.

[old rem]

We don't have a lot of money to work with to make drastic changes, so here's my short term offseason plan.

Draft
14th pick- Marreese Speights, F/C Florida
49th pick-Mario Chalmers, G Kansas-a man can dream he slips this far

Re-signings
Andris Biedrins- 5 years 45 mil
Monta Ellis- 5 years 50 mil
Kelenna Azubukie- 3 years 7 mil

Free Agent Signings
PG- Anthony Johnson(Kings)

Depth Chart

PG-Baron Davis/Mario Chalmers/Anthony Johnson
SG-Monta Ellis/Marco Belinelli
SF-Stephen Jackson/Kelenna Azubuike
PF-Al Harrington/Marresse Speights
C- Andris Biedrins/Brandan Wright/Kosta Perovic

Pretty sensible but Chalmers got quite a showcase in the NCAA's and if anything will go a few slots higher than he should. Lester Hudson might last to 49 and Sean Sinletary or George Hill are other rd 2 PG's to look at. I also still like Reggie Williams.

Guys.....it's hard to really argue pro or con about Euro-teens. We don't get to see them in a known context. We can't break down game logs for stats,strengths,weaknesses,patterns. Some guy is allegedly as good as Jiri Welsch? So? The scouts get to fly overseas,hang out,see games,talk to insiders and players. If they are sold..so be it. I tend to be skeptical. Wasn't long ago I was argueing..no...we don't want to draft Fran Vasquez and a lot of people insisted he'd be an instant star.

Mullin needs to keep his eyes and ears open...don't look for the home run..more like a solid line drive double-consistantly. We bagged a bonus in Azu and I think Watson will turn out pretty decent too. I'm hoping Nellie's fresh interest in 'youth" isn't just talk. I'm kinda bummed that Alexander has spurted out of our zone,along with Love. Perhaps,come draft day,one of them drops to 11 or 12 and we can do a move up that's not to costly. Probably not. I still really want a trade down.

I'm not for trading Baron just to do it. Maybe there's a deal that's too good to pass up--but I haven't seen anything I'd like AND could see happening. NEXT summer? Maybe. Then it's a new coach,then Monta may have the PG skills,then Baron includes a shiny new contract in a S+T rather like KG.
In a year maybe Baron staying is the best idea..maybe letting Baron expire is the smart move.

Jackson + Harrington as the F's almost works.....but not quite. Jax plays more like a G and Al,like a SF....so we have 2 small G's,a big G a SF and a relatively skinny C (with no backup). You all know where this is going. We need a PF/C type able to PLAY,able to give Biedrins some backup and able to play PF alongside Beans to give us more size,muscle,rebounds. We need a TOUGH sob,a physical banger,along the lines of Reggie Evans,Leon Powe. I still think Sheldon Williams could be that...and now his price tag has dropped to where he can be a bargain. Richard hendrix is that guy,as far as this draft goes. Turiaff is a RFA....I'd make a bid if only to harrass the Lakers. Craig Smith is a player. Unlike most wide body PF's he's a good passer and hits the midrange J well. I also still like Fazekas who can be a low $ PF/C....solid rebounder and can shoot. He needs school8ng on defense but bargains always need some fix-ups. Spotting WHO can be fixed up...and getting good at fixing can build a nice talent base.

Look at the Pistons. They salvaged R Wallace and Billups who had been high picks but floundered. they saw something in a too skinny Tay Prince and a too short Maxiel and a brokedown McDyess and NOBODY expected Ben Wallace to be anything. Hamilton was about the only guy they had in that core who was a "typical" pickup. Even then...why is he getting deep in the playoffs and a dozen SG's with equal talent don't?
Look at the Spurs. Take Duncan out of the picture and what's left? Parker,Ginobli and a dozen role players. Suns got Marion + Amare as mid-late lotto picks and most everyone else they grabbed when the price was low and remade those guys.

[darobster17]

If the W's are to turn into contendors, the young core of Monta,BWright and Biedrin's games must improve,expand to leaps and bounds and build that chemistry/killer intstinct that playoff contendors have. With that said, I realistically don't see it happening during one offseason...

Monta is probably the one player that already has shown consistently what he's capable of throughtout last season. With Biedrins...Im not so sure. I'd like to see if Beans can be more than a hustle/energy guy and show some legit post moves and or add a jumper to his repertoire. Can Biedrins be the guy we go down low to the post/block when we need a bucket? and or ultimately be the difference maker?

Brandan Wright has shown glimpses of a post game, runs the floor well and can block/alter some shots.

If I'm the GM/Coach, my first order of business outside the contract extensions of BoomDizzle,Monta and Biedrins, would be getting better bench players than Harrington,Cro,Buike and MP.

JR Smith or a player similar to his game would be a perfect pickup for us becuz we need an upgrade at SG/SF until Bellinelli or Buike can show they can be counted on...I'd take a chance on Gerald Green if noone picks him up in the offseason. My ideal pickup in the free agent market is landing Josh Smith. The guy's game fits the W's to a T...as well as addresses some the needs such as shotblocking, perimeter defense and rebounding. I'd also sign Chris Duhon quick if and when we deal Baron.

I like Donte Greene or Darrell Arthur or Speights or even Ajinca at #14. We take the best frontcourt player that could make an impact immediately. Ajinca of course would be a reach but his stock draft is moving up.

We could deal Harrington to Detroit for their late first round pick. We take Devon Hardin and hope he develops into a Jermaine O'neal type.

Baron/Monta/Duhon
JR Smith/Monta/Bellinelli
SJAX/#14th pick/Buike/Gerald Green
BWright/#14th pick/Hardin
Biedrins/#14th pick/Perovic/Hardin

[Sleepy]

If the W's are to turn into contendors, the young core of Monta,BWright and Biedrin's games must improve,expand to leaps and bounds and build that chemistry/killer intstinct that playoff contendors have. With that said, I realistically don't see it happening during one offseason...

Monta is probably the one player that already has shown consistently what he's capable of throughtout last season. With Biedrins...Im not so sure. I'd like to see if Beans can be more than a hustle/energy guy and show some legit post moves and or add a jumper to his repertoire. Can Biedrins be the guy we go down low to the post/block when we need a bucket? and or ultimately be the difference maker?

Brandan Wright has shown glimpses of a post game, runs the floor well and can block/alter some shots.

If I'm the GM/Coach, my first order of business outside the contract extensions of BoomDizzle,Monta and Biedrins, would be getting better bench players than Harrington,Cro,Buike and MP.

JR Smith or a player similar to his game would be a perfect pickup for us becuz we need an upgrade at SG/SF until Bellinelli or Buike can show they can be counted on...I'd take a chance on Gerald Green if noone picks him up in the offseason. My ideal pickup in the free agent market is landing Josh Smith. The guy's game fits the W's to a T...as well as addresses some the needs such as shotblocking, perimeter defense and rebounding. I'd also sign Chris Duhon quick if and when we deal Baron.

I like Donte Greene or Darrell Arthur or Speights or even Ajinca at #14. We take the best frontcourt player that could make an impact immediately. Ajinca of course would be a reach but his stock draft is moving up.

We could deal Harrington to Detroit for their late first round pick. We take Devon Hardin and hope he develops into a Jermaine O'neal type.

Baron/Monta/Duhon
JR Smith/Monta/Bellinelli
SJAX/#14th pick/Buike/Gerald Green
BWright/#14th pick/Hardin
Biedrins/#14th pick/Perovic/Hardin

I think this post deserves a WTF
So Monta becomes a backup to JR Smith and plays less minutes than the project bigman we take at #14, that backs up our whole frontline at the same time? Sounds like a plan...

[darobster17]

Clearly I did not intend Monta to backup JR smith even though it may lineup suggests that I did. Nor did I say or post that Monta will be getting less minutes than whoever we draft at #14. Stop reading between the lines and next time I will include the minutes played when I post my lineups.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Mullin needs to keep his eyes and ears open...don't look for the home run..more like a solid line drive double-consistantly.

Look at the Pistons. They salvaged R Wallace and Billups who had been high picks but floundered. they saw something in a too skinny Tay Prince and a too short Maxiel and a brokedown McDyess and NOBODY expected Ben Wallace to be anything.

Look at the Spurs. Parker,Ginobli and a dozen role players. Suns got Marion + Amare as mid-late lotto

I would call those home runs. Especially the Amare signing.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Monta is a good championship level number 2 or 3 guy. Andris is a championship defensive role player who still might develop some offense. Wright looks like he might become a championship 4th player like Tayshaun Prince.

Azubuike and Barnes are championship level 8th and 9th guys.

Baron is a championship level number 2 guy but he will start fading soon.

How do the Warriors get the superstar/ championship level number 1 guy?


Belinelli, Watson and Kosta may be nothing. I think Belinelli can at least be at steakier version of Steve Kerr or Brent Barry. I doubt Belinelli could be happy for long in the bombadeir 10th man off the bench role. Kosta could be 6 hard fouls if he is mean enough. CJ Watson is a good scorer. I wanted a quicker pass first, fast break leader, and intense defender as the third point guard on this team.

[FNQ]

Who's #1 on the Pistons?

You've completely undersold Monta and Biedrins based on what they have had to do in this horribly ran offense and at the same time completely overrated Matt Barnes. Remember, he was a journeyman for 6 years, had one good year, and returned to journeyman status. He's a scrub. Buke I can see on a winning team but not getting anything over 10mpg... he's either a 6'4 SF or a guard that can't dribble.

[GS Warriors 1]

Azubuike and Barnes are championship level 8th and 9th guys.

Barnes would be a male cheerleader on a championship level team. Azubuike could be a 9th or 10th but I doubt he would be anything more than that, though usually at that stage its a 7 or 8 man rotation, so he wouldn't see much floor time if at all.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Azubuike and Barnes are championship level 8th and 9th guys.

Barnes would be a male cheerleader on a championship level team. Azubuike could be a 9th or 10th but I doubt he would be anything more than that, though usually at that stage its a 7 or 8 man rotation, so he wouldn't see much floor time if at all.

A good male cheerleader is most of what the 9th guy is supposed to be. You want an energy guy in that role. Somebody who will dive to the floor for a loose ball. Somebody who enjoys playing but who can be happy with 10 minutes a game.

Barnes had a tough year emotionally. He will be back to the previous years form next year. Barnes is a good passer. Barnes is a streaky 3 point shooter who can heat up quickly. Barnes is a slightly better rebounder than Harrington despite being smaller than Harrington.

Azubuike is a good scorer in the paint who does not get flustered by being surrounded by active hands when he brings the ball into traffic. Azuibuke is a decent outside shooter also. Azubuike plays decent one on one defense on Kobe. He can give you as good a 20 minutes as the 8th guys for the Lakers and Celtics did this June. I would not trade Azubuike for Sasha Vujacic.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Who's #1 on the Pistons?

You've completely undersold Monta and Biedrins based on what they have had to do in this horribly ran offense and at the same time completely overrated Matt Barnes. Remember, he was a journeyman for 6 years, had one good year, and returned to journeyman status. He's a scrub. Buke I can see on a winning team but not getting anything over 10mpg... he's either a 6'4 SF or a guard that can't dribble.

Do you have a better comparisons for Biedrins than Camby or Tyson Chandler? Andris is very valuable. If he suddenly becomes Kevin McHale on offense then he would be better than Camby and Chandler.

Do you have a better comparison for Monta than Gus Williams or Leandro Barbosa? Monta is an almost unstoppable scorer. The problem is the "almost" and also that Monta is not very special at anything but scoring. Monta has enough quickness to be a great defender but he still gets fooled by vets one on one and he makes some poor choices on team defense. Monta is sort of special at running down long rebounds.

Monta made big improvements as a point guard. He is OK as a point guard and very very good as a scorer. He is not on Kobe's level. He is a notch behind Baron, Gilbert Arenas, and Paul Pierce. If Monta Ellis can be our Scottie Pippen and Baron Davis can be another Scottie Pippen but we still need our Michael Jordan.

The Detroit Pistons did win a championship with Chauncey Billups as their best player but that only happens on down years and Chauncey had four more teammates almost as good as him.

[FNQ]

Why do you need to compare? You are comparing players who don't really have a comparison.

Biedrins' ability to finish is among the elite level in this league. If you turned 25% of his very textbook finishes into gorilla slams, we'd be talking about him like he was a future 20/10 guy. He can easily eclipse the 15 ppg mark if we actively look to get him involved and established as an offensive weapon.

As far as Monta the PG goes, I'm not going to get into a long thing. But really, when you have Monta the player lower than Baron the player, that says it all. Talentwise its close, but player-wise, Monta eclipsed Baron a while ago. And Gilbert Arenas, to be frank.

Baron's not a Pippen. People need to accept him for what he is - a talented, immature PG that wants to be the star. He's got all the tools to be a great player and the brain of Stevie Franchise and Starbury.

The Pistons won a championship by playing team basketball. None of the teams this year in the finals would have beaten those Pistons. And back then, was Billups really their best player? Did it matter? They have 5 good players on the court at all times. Players, not talents. And if you'll look at every championship for the past 10 years, you will see players, not talents, winning. Guys who can play 2 ways, who can pass the ball, role-players, hard-defensive teams. We have what, 2, maybe 3 of those types here?

[GS Warriors 1]

Barnes had a tough year emotionally. He will be back to the previous years form next year. Barnes is a good passer. Barnes is a streaky 3 point shooter who can heat up quickly. Barnes is a slightly better rebounder than Harrington despite being smaller than Harrington.

He did have a tough year emotionally but I think his play last season is where he's been for most of his career. He's nothing more than bench filler. 06-07 was a career year for him and he got $3M out of it. I think he'll be back because he'll be much cheaper than that and the team seems to like him.

Azubuike is a good scorer in the paint who does not get flustered by being surrounded by active hands when he brings the ball into traffic. Azuibuke is a decent outside shooter also. Azubuike plays decent one on one defense on Kobe. He can give you as good a 20 minutes as the 8th guys for the Lakers and Celtics did this June. I would not trade Azubuike for Sasha Vujacic.

I'm just not sure about Azubuike yet. He had some moments but overall, probably played a bit too much. I see an undersized SF that is a streaky shooter and isn't all that good defensively. If anything, he should get a 1 year deal at a reasonable amount. If he wants a MLE deal, the Warriors should easily close the door.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Why do you need to compare? You are comparing players who don't really have a comparison.

You, GS Warriors 1, Old Rem, Know what you are talking about. In general I have noticed that most people on Real GM boards seem to overate their own players. I think comparisons help with objectivity.

Biedrins' ability to finish is among the elite level in this league. If you turned 25% of his very textbook finishes into gorilla slams, we'd be talking about him like he was a future 20/10 guy. He can easily eclipse the 15 ppg mark if we actively look to get him involved and established as an offensive weapon.

I Love Biedrins game even if he never shot because a defensive center is so important. Biedrins hands and touch look good enough for him to be an offensive player who does more than quick cuts to the basket. The Warriors could use a low post scorer. I won't know if Biedrins can be a low post scorer until I see what he can do against a defense that is ready to defend aginst him as a low post scorer.

As far as Monta the PG goes, I'm not going to get into a long thing. But really, when you have Monta the player lower than Baron the player, that says it all. Talentwise its close, but player-wise, Monta eclipsed Baron a while ago. And Gilbert Arenas, to be frank.

Baron's not a Pippen. People need to accept him for what he is - a talented, immature PG that wants to be the star. He's got all the tools to be a great player and the brain of Stevie Franchise and Starbury.

Monta does not create as much as Baron does for his teammates. Baron has really impressed me with his defense. Barons dribble denying technique is perfect. I wish Monta could learn from him. Baron is really smart defender. As of the end of last year Baron still looks like a more valuable player than Monta to me.

Baron does have some Starbury disease, but Baron has always been the best player on his teams. Put him with KG or Kobe and let's see if he loses his Starbury disease. I don't know how addicted Baron is to being the star.

Baron's talent level is comparable to Pippen's.

The Pistons won a championship by playing team basketball. None of the teams this year in the finals would have beaten those Pistons. And back then, was Billups really their best player? Did it matter? They have 5 good players on the court at all times. Players, not talents. And if you'll look at every championship for the past 10 years, you will see players, not talents, winning. Guys who can play 2 ways, who can pass the ball, role-players, hard-defensive teams. We have what, 2, maybe 3 of those types here?

I don't think those Piston's beat these Celtics. Billups, Sheed, Hammilton were all about as good as Baron. Ben Wallace was about as good as Andris or a little better than Andris, and Prince was better than Harrington/ about as Good as Jackson maybe better. So if we don't some how land a really great player then we need to get a few more players on Baron's level of talent. I don't know how that can be done. I think the Warriors need to get lucky.

[FNQ]

- FWIW, I dont think Biedrins will ever be a low post scorer. I can definitely see him being a high post scorer though, more of a 'slashing' PF/C who can get off quick and controlled shots close to the rim.

- Also, Monta may not get as easy looks as Baron gets teammates, but Monta gives them open looks. He's especially effective at drive and dish, and towards the end of the year became pretty good at making passes in traffic.

- I dunno what Baron you were watching this year, his defense was awful. While he's strong and quick enough to be able to harass people into terminating their dribble, he often times chooses not to play tough D. He was absolutely brutal by the end of last season... there's no way I'd consider Baron (now) more valuable than Monta (now) - not factoring in potential in the slightest, either. I think Baron's talent level is also as high or higher than Pippen's, but its just a damn shame he's not a player.

- As far as how addicted Baron is to being the star, we'll see this year. Monta's already, IMO, become our go to offensive guy. For us to have any type of success (no matter if you define it as wins, Monta's development, or both), Baron needs to recognize this. If he doesn't, we can expect a repeat of last year.

- I would love to see the prime Pistons vs. 08 Celts... I'm a firm believer that a well-oiled, less talented team can destroy a talent-laden team... Celts were amazing on defense but very poor on offense as far as running plays and things went. As far as comparing the Pistons of old to us, I can't think of one player on their team who was as unstoppable as Ellis can be... they also had the benefit of a coach who taught defense too.

Honestly, maybe its homeristic, but I think our team, minus Baron, is a lot closer to being a contender than most people will give credit for... people on these boards have to use buzzwords and labels on players, and if something doesn't fit into them, then it won't work (made 100x more ironic by the fact that most of these people buy into smallball ) ... a team led by and run through Monta is bound to be more efficient, and therefore, more successful.

[East Bay Funk Dunk]

- FWIW, I dont think Biedrins will ever be a low post scorer. I can definitely see him being a high post scorer though, more of a 'slashing' PF/C who can get off quick and controlled shots close to the rim.

- Also, Monta may not get as easy looks as Baron gets teammates, but Monta gives them open looks. He's especially effective at drive and dish, and towards the end of the year became pretty good at making passes in traffic.

- I dunno what Baron you were watching this year, his defense was awful. While he's strong and quick enough to be able to harass people into terminating their dribble, he often times chooses not to play tough D. He was absolutely brutal by the end of last season... there's no way I'd consider Baron (now) more valuable than Monta (now) - not factoring in potential in the slightest, either. I think Baron's talent level is also as high or higher than Pippen's, but its just a damn shame he's not a player.

- As far as how addicted Baron is to being the star, we'll see this year. Monta's already, IMO, become our go to offensive guy. For us to have any type of success (no matter if you define it as wins, Monta's development, or both), Baron needs to recognize this. If he doesn't, we can expect a repeat of last year.

- I would love to see the prime Pistons vs. 08 Celts... I'm a firm believer that a well-oiled, less talented team can destroy a talent-laden team... Celts were amazing on defense but very poor on offense as far as running plays and things went. As far as comparing the Pistons of old to us, I can't think of one player on their team who was as unstoppable as Ellis can be... they also had the benefit of a coach who taught defense too.

Honestly, maybe its homeristic, but I think our team, minus Baron, is a lot closer to being a contender than most people will give credit for... people on these boards have to use buzzwords and labels on players, and if something doesn't fit into them, then it won't work (made 100x more ironic by the fact that most of these people buy into smallball ) ... a team led by and run through Monta is bound to be more efficient, and therefore, more successful.

Lot of good stuff here. I think the thing we have trouble with in evaluating our team is predicting exactly what kind of players ellis and biedrins will be. i think both of them have very unique skill sets that aren't really comparable to anyone else, so they don't fit into conventional "labels" unless you use "combo guard" and "skinny defensive C" , which doesn't begin to explain what they do. but i think we all see potential for greatness, and so the smart thing to do is tie them down (and BW) and find complementary players who also play efficiently on offense.

I'm also very interested to see whether Baron can play second banana. Unlike some others, i think he CAN adapt and humble himself to the necessary degree, but i'm not sure that he will. i'm pretty sure baron's gonna be around this season, because i don't see anyone taking baron who will give us something we need, and i'm pretty sure he'll sign elsewhere after the season unless we make a strong playoff push.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

- I dunno what Baron you were watching this year, his defense was awful. While he's strong and quick enough to be able to harass people into terminating their dribble, he often times chooses not to play tough D. He was absolutely brutal by the end of last season...
Honestly, maybe its homeristic, but I think our team, minus Baron, is a lot closer to being a contender than most people will give credit for... people on these boards have to use buzzwords and labels on players, and if something doesn't fit into them, then it won't work (made 100x more ironic by the fact that most of these people buy into smallball ) ... a team led by and run through Monta is bound to be more efficient, and therefore, more successful.

I am not totally opposed to small Ball. This group of guys almost had to play small ball because Biedrins is the only good big guy the Warriors had unless you count the potential some of us thought we saw in POB. Harrington is good but it is time for us to realize that he is a 6' 9" off guard who is too slow to play off guard. You can play Harrington at center but forget about making a big guy out of him.

If you are going to play small ball you had better play eight or nine guys or your players legs will turn to rubber every fourth quarter. That is exactly what I thought I saw happen this year. Baron and Jackson turned soft on defense in the fourth quarters because they ran out of energy. I blame Nellie. He had to suck it up and play the bench players even though he did not have confidence in them.

Monta is efficient by himself. The rest of the team relies on Baron to make them efficient. The next phase to watch with Monta is whether he can stay efficient against teams that are keying on him. teams keyed on Monta a few times late last season. Take Baron away and they will key on Monta night after night.

Honestly, maybe its homeristic, but I think our team, minus Baron, is a lot closer to being a contender than most people will give credit for

Add Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace (from the championship Pistons not old Wallaces) to this team and then you have a contender. Nellie would still have to play Azubuike or somebody major minutes as the third guard and back up small forward. Biedrins would close out the games because Ben Wallace never could hit free throws. Take Baron away and you have to add in Chauncey Billups as well for the team to be a contender.

So, in my mind we are two very good players away from being a contender. Loose Baron and we are three very good players away from being a championship contender. Just to define "contender", Utah is a very good team but I don't consider them contenders.

Maybe Wright will be very good in a year or two.

[IHaveAHotGf]

Scrolling back a few pages, Marvin would be a good fit for this team.
-PG Here- or Monta
Monta or -SG Here-
Marvin
Wright
Biedrins

with Portland and Utah.

[FNQ]

Batum over Ibaka in 2008...book it.

L. E. Bump

[Warriorfan]

Draft is done and the team got a long term project in Randolph

I would trade Baron Davis for Bayless, La Frenz , Batum and Frye and Rodriquez from Portland.