Kobe-KG..

HarlemHeat37 · Post #1 » by **HarlemHeat37** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:27 pm

after finally winning his 1st title, what more does KG have to do to catch Kobe as the 3rd greatest player of this generation?..or has he caught him already?..

bluestang302 · Post #2 » by **bluestang302** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:43 pm

I think he's there right now

Kobe:
All NBA Teams: 10 (6 1sts, 2 2nds, 2 3rds)
All-Defense Teams: 8 (6 1sts, 2 2nds)
Top 12 MVP Finishes: 8 (1, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 9, 12)

KG:
All NBA Teams: 9 (4 1sts, 3 2nds, 2 3rds)
All-Defense Teams: 9 (7 1sts, 2 2nds)
Top 12 MVP Finishes: 9 (1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 9, 10, 11, 12)

Doesn't really get much closer than that I don't think. Now that KG got over the hump by winning the ring - and he WAS the main guy - he was the backbone of the team's defense and their offensive hub. Kobe is a perimeter player and thus, a better closer and is clearly the better scorer. KG is more able to affect the game defensively (simply because of his size), owns the boards, and is a great offensive player as well. Not a volume scorer, but an efficient and consistant 20 ppg player while also being a premier passer.

They are even in my book.

Wade3Iverson · Post #3 » by **Wade3Iverson** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:46 pm

^^^good post.

If I had to choose one to start a franchise I'm going with KG, but yeah it's very close. It's going to be interesting to see the next couple of years pan out; specifically the battles between the Celts and Lakers (the two favorites). Celts could easily win a ring the next couple of year as well, but Lakers can be extremely dominant for 5 years. I'm excited

MilanFan · Post #4 » by **MilanFan** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:00 pm

Another Championship. KG was their main defensive guy but not their main offensive guy. Pierce was their main offensive threat. Pierce was more important to the Celtics then KG in the playoffs. The Celtics kept rolling in the regular season when KG was out. Pierce was the finals MVP not KG.

Kobe's role on the 3 championship teams was just as important as KG's role on 1 championship team.

They are close, but Kobe is still alittle ahead.

Post #5 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:15 pm

MilanFan wrote:Another Championship. KG was their main defensive guy but not their main offensive guy. Pierce was their main offensive threat. Pierce was more important to the Celtics then KG in the playoffs. The Celtics kept rolling in the regular season when KG was out. Pierce was the finals MVP not KG.

Kobe's role on the 3 championship teams was just as important as KG's role on 1 championship team.

They are close, but Kobe is still alittle ahead.

Bull, KG was easily the better player, even offensively, he scored more points, and more efficiently. Pierce had a few huge games, with a bunch of subpar ones, KG was the only consistent force through the run, and it all starts with him, he's the guy that draws the double teams.

20.7 on 50%> 19.7 on 44%

kooldude · Post #6 » by **kooldude** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:02 am

in terms of greatness, Kobe is still the 3rd greatest player of this era. By a good margin. 3 rings > 1 ring

But I always thought KG was the better player than Kobe by a slight edge. KG's impact on defense is better than anything Kobe can do on defense, not a real fault of Kobe's but great defensive bigs > great defensive wings. Kobe is obviously superior on offense but it's not like KG hurts his team by not having volume scoring, it's just delegated to other teammates. You can't say that for defense.

Post #7 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:19 am

kooldude wrote:
in terms of greatness, Kobe is still the 3rd greatest player of this era. By a good margin. 3 rings > 1 ring

But I always thought KG was the better player than Kobe by a slight edge. KG's impact on defense is better than anything Kobe can do on defense, not a real fault of Kobe's but great defensive bigs > great defensive wings. Kobe is obviously superior on offense but it's not like KG hurts his team by not having volume scoring, it's just delegated to other teammates. You can't say that for defense.

Then what about Parker and Ginobli?? Parker has 3, and a finals MVP....

conleyorbust · Post #8 » by **conleyorbust** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:41 pm

I'd definitely take KG's 03-04 season over any of Kobe's seasons.

The difference in defensive intensity between KG and post-Shaq Kobe Bryant is huge. It goes faaaar beyond one guy being a wing and the other a big, I think even Kobe guys would agree with that.

Alex_De_Large · Post #9 » by **Alex_De_Large** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:03 pm

1-Shaq
2-Duncan
3-KG.

fanofthegreats · Post #10 » by **fanofthegreats** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:29 pm

I'd still take Kobe. He did have three years of missing the playoffs straight so that definitely hurts and the discussion was close then and during those years Kobe established himself as one of the top 2-3 playrs in basketball.

So yeah, even with the loss Kobe> KG for this era.

wigglestrue · Post #11 » by **wigglestrue** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:15 pm

Kobe by a hair, for now. Another championship like this for KG gets them even or gives KG the edge. They're both solidly in the top 20 of all time now, anyway. For example, I think this puts KG ahead of Barkley and Ewing, for sure. Hell, Kobe seemed to be gliding into (and past!?) the top 15 on some people's lists. Maybe Garnett is approaching that territory, too.

KNICKS1970 · Post #12 » by **KNICKS1970** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:30 pm

I would rank Kobe ahead of KG any day and I don't see that changing. It reminds me of how in the mid-80s, Bird was pretty much unanimously regarded as the best player in the game, and there were even stories about how he might end up the best player to ever play. Then Magic wins a couple of titles at the end of the decade and now the majority of people rank Magic as the greater player. If KG wins a couple more titles, it probably gives KG the edge historically, even though Kobe has been consistently thought of as one of the three best players in the league for the entire decade, has been mentioned as "the best all around player in the league" for almost the entire decade, and has arguably been the best player in the league for the last few years. I'm not sure I agree with any KG>Kobe argument, but I guess that's we wait until the games are played. Maybe KG puts up another 2-3 monster defensive years and wins another title and another Finals MVPs, while Kobe flames out and starts a feud with Sasha Vujacic. Who knows?

It would be neat to have Kobe and KG linked together historically though. It's a fun debate.

Post #13 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:54 am

I think it's the opposite actually, Kobe wasn't regarded as the best player in basketball until up 05-06, and now suddenly everyone thinks he is the best player of the last 10 years, or the player of the post jordan Era, and I don't think he was better than KG until at least 06, and it was still debatable then.

eatyourchildren · Post #14 » by **eatyourchildren** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:08 am

Wait a minute. How quickly winning championships colors or even eliminates some of our memories.

A Kobe-led team only once didn't make the playoffs, whereas it's happened multiple times for KG-led teams. Are we forgetting all those KG crying interviews just because him and Bill Russell are cool now?

And anyone saying KG was the de facto guy on this Celtics team is out of their mind. Take away Allen or Pierce and replace them with someone mediocre, and they might have easily gone out to the Hawks. This big 3 was the perfect combination of stars. They covered each others weaknesses perfectly. There's no way anyone can argue that the big 3 were not 1a, b, and c. KG straight up disappeared in some games, lol at 'consistency'.

Post #15 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:12 am

eatyourchildren wrote:Wait a minute. How quickly winning championships colors or even eliminates some of our memories.

A Kobe-led team only once didn't make the playoffs, whereas it's happened multiple times for KG-led teams. Are we forgetting all those KG crying interviews just because him and Bill Russell are cool now?

And anyone saying KG was the de facto guy on this Celtics team is out of their mind. Take away Allen or Pierce and replace them with someone mediocre, and they might have easily gone out to the Hawks. This big 3 was the perfect combination of stars. They covered each others weaknesses perfectly. There's no way anyone can argue that the big 3 were not 1a, b, and c. KG straight up disappeared in some games, lol at 'consistency'.

KG led teams missed the playoffs 3 times in what, 12 years? And Kobe led teams missed 1 in 4 years? Or lets pretend Kobe has been leading his teams since he was drafted.

Farm Raid · Post #16 » by **Farm Raid** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:16 am

eatyourchildren wrote:Wait a minute. How quickly winning championships colors or even eliminates some of our memories.

Double wait a minute. I agree Kobe beats KG out but isn't the whole reason why we think of Kobe (until this year) as anything more than TMac that championships he won with Shaq at the helm? Kinda hypocritical to complain about rings now when it's the reason why we don't look at Kobe like we do AI.

kooldude · Post #17 » by **kooldude** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:20 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:
kooldude wrote:
in terms of greatness, Kobe is still the 3rd greatest player of this era. By a good margin. 3 rings > 1 ring

But I always thought KG was the better player than Kobe by a slight edge. KG's impact on defense is better than anything Kobe can do on defense, not a real fault of Kobe's but great defensive bigs > great defensive wings. Kobe is obviously superior on offense but it's not like KG hurts his team by not having volume scoring, it's just delegated to other teammates. You can't say that for defense.

Then what about Parker and Ginobli?? Parker has 3, and a finals MVP....

I used the ring argument because Kobe and KG are on the same level in terms of impact; them being the top 5 players of this era. You can't say that for Parker and Manu.

Also Kobe won the rings as 1b option to Shaq's 1a. The people that said Kobe was Shaq's Pippen are just haters. Parker was never a 1b option to Duncan; neither was Manu, maybe except this year. Finals MVP is overrated; Regular MVP is like 10X better than FInals MVP. Even Worthy has a Finals MVP and he's never been a top 10 player in any year.

wigglestrue · Post #18 » by **wigglestrue** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:24 am

eatyourchildren wrote:Wait a minute. How quickly winning championships colors or even eliminates some of our memories.

A Kobe-led team only once didn't make the playoffs, whereas it's happened multiple times for KG-led teams. Are we forgetting all those KG crying interviews just because him and Bill Russell are cool now?

Kobe-led? So...05, 06, 07, and 08. Missed playoffs, knocked out in first round, knocked out in first round, lost in the Finals. Missed the playoffs in 1/4 of the teams he led. Looks a lot like KG's KG-led career in a nutshell except for the whole losing in the Finals part at the end.

And anyone saying KG was the de facto guy on this Celtics team is out of their mind. Take away Allen or Pierce and replace them with someone mediocre, and they might have easily gone out to the Hawks. This big 3 was the perfect combination of stars. They covered each others weaknesses perfectly. There's no way anyone can argue that the big 3 were not 1a, b, and c. KG straight up disappeared in some games, lol at 'consistency'.

Kevin Garnett led the team. Duh.

eatyourchildren · Post #19 » by **eatyourchildren** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:28 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:
eatyourchildren wrote:Wait a minute. How quickly winning championships colors or even eliminates some of our memories.

A Kobe-led team only once didn't make the playoffs, whereas it's happened multiple times for KG-led teams. Are we forgetting all those KG crying interviews just because him and Bill Russell are cool now?

And anyone saying KG was the de facto guy on this Celtics team is out of their mind. Take away Allen or Pierce and replace them with someone mediocre, and they might have easily gone out to the Hawks. This big 3 was the perfect combination of stars. They covered each others weaknesses perfectly. There's no way anyone can argue that the big 3 were not 1a, b, and c. KG straight up disappeared in some games, lol at 'consistency'.

KG led teams missed the playoffs 3 times in what, 12 years? And Kobe led teams missed 1 in 4 years? Or lets pretend Kobe has been leading his teams since he was drafted.

So we're going to extrapolate that to mean Kobe's teams will miss another 2 in 8 years? Does that even make sense? If Kobe plays another 36 years, he'll not go to the playoffs 9 times!

BTW, with Bynum coming back and some offseason moves to build onto the 3rd youngest team in the league, I wouldn't count on that extrapolation working.

That still doesn't leave answered my assertion that KG was NOT the de-facto leader of ONE championship team. He, Pierce, and Allen split the duties as equally as you can. (And you can argue the same happened when he went to the WCF with Cassell and Latrel)

That Nicka · Post #20 » by **That Nicka** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:30 am

wigglestrue wrote:Kobe-led? So...05, 06, 07, and 08. Missed playoffs, knocked out in first round, knocked out in first round, lost in the Finals. Missed the playoffs in 1/4 of the teams he led. Looks a lot like KG's KG-led career in a nutshell except for the whole losing in the Finals part at the end.

Not saying I disagree with you, but imo, you can also add 03 and 04 to the list