How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are...

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Post#21 » by TDG26 » Mon Jun 9, 2008 5:23 pm

tsherkin wrote:Too much knowledge to quote


:bowdown:
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Post#22 » by tsherkin » Mon Jun 9, 2008 5:29 pm

There's a decent ESPN article by Fran Fraschilla from a few years ago here.

It highlights some of the key parts:

Setting Up the Triangle

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Filling the Corner

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They show the inside cut, the outside cut, and then a few entries that get guards into the low post, such as:

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and

Dribble Entry

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Then it starts talking about actually RUNNING the offense.

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That little corridor is called the "line of deployment," which is a fancy way of saying the 3 in that picture is in optimum position to make an entry pass into the low post.

It goes on to show how fronting is a REALLY bad option in this scenario, giving lob options over the top or after a quick pass to the 1 in the corner, etc. This reminds of the Shaw-Shaq Redemption pass, as it was called in Orlando and L.A.

He talks about the "post split" option:

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The 3 dumps in to the 5, then screens for the 1, who comes out of the corner above the 5 and around 3s screen. That might leave him open for a mid-range jumper, a cut to the basket, etc, etc, etc. Options, options, options, the focus of this offense.

Fraschilla shows the screen away, the pass to the corner and the clear-out cut, the back door lob...

He shows a big-time favorite of the current Lakers, the Pinch Post:

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This is the first example of ball reversal, which is key to the triangle offense. In this diagram, you're looking at three passing back to the off-guard, then setting a double-screen with 5 for the 1, who leaves the corner and heads for what is now the weak-side elbow (pinch post). Meantime, the 2 has the ball, the 4 makes an L-cut from above the arc into the elbow area on what is now the strong side and gets a pass from the 2 (or they can screen-and-roll, which is a common event, especially with Kobe/Gasol).

But if he just gets the pass and the 2 clears, then he can take a jumper or face up and attack the basket. As for the screen-and-roll, any self-respective basketball fan knows what that's all about. A lot of Gasol's lobs come from that play.

Next up, the last item on his list but far from the last option, the backdoor-for-2 play. Basically, 4 cuts across from the left wing to the inside right elbow and the 2 cuts behind him. 4 gets a pass from 3 on the right wing and passes it to a cutting 2 for a dribble attack on the basket.

Neat play.

But the beauty of this offense is that it's a read-and-react option.

So when you're talking about options, you're talking about HUGE numbers of options.

The entry into the offense is a great example of this.

The above talks about the different kinds of cuts 1 can use to fill the corner or how to get the 2 into the low post, etc. But you can use the post pop to get the 2, the 1 or the 4 into the strong side post if your players can handle it (which is one of the reasons Phil Jackson has always liked big guards like Jordan, sometimes Pippen, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, etc).

You didn't see the post-pop where the 5 fills the corner a lot when Shaq was on the floor but you could see it with Cartwright, Travis Knight, when they're running Gasol at the 5... There are dribble-handoff plays to get the 2 in the corner, leaving the 1 and the 4 set up for the ball reversal and therefore the pinch post action or maybe a quick high sidescreen...

Etc, etc, etc. And that's just entries into the offense. You're talking about 10 basic entries into the offense (forming the triangle) and usually about 3 options based on how the defense reacts to your attempt. For example, with the post pop, as I said, you can get the 1 dribbling in a bit, passing to the three and then cutting away to the weakside as the 5 pops and the 2 slips into the low post.

You can also have the 4 make a weak side cut into the post and the 2 rotating down into the weak side corner. If the 1 wants the post because of a mismatch, he passes to the 3, cuts into the low post as the 5 pops and then the 2 replaces the 1's spot and the 4 cuts to the pinch post to prepare for ball reversal.

OR... you go with the classic triple post option. You get the 5 in the strong side post and the 1 in the corner. The 3, probably out of a blind pig because of backcourt pressure, sends a lead pass to the 1 and then makes a basket cut. 5 pops to takes the wing position of the triangle and the 4 fills in the post with the 2 moving over to where the 1 usually sits to prepare for ball reversal and boom, sideline triangle.

Then there are about a dozen weak side ball reversal options.

Then you start worrying about the post isolation offense and the half-dozen or so basic options out of the fully formed sideline triangle. Then there are 6 or 7 options if the defense is overplaying the triangle. Then there are options to play the wing post.

Etc, etc, ad nauseum.

This is the triangle; constant motion, lots of options to get set up and then big time continuity. Every option you take once you've set up the triangle will eventually lead you back to the triangle... and if the play is broken, you still have nearly a dozen basic options to set it up again anyway.

Plus, if you're feeling frisky, if you look at some of the plays, you occasionally end up with sort of basic single-double sets for brief periods of time, so you can run hard double-down screens for a spot-up shooter and run ball reversal to get him open looks from the weak side, Reggie/Ray-Ray/Rip style. From that basic set up, you can roll continuity into a Hawks set ala the Atlanta squads Hubie Brown coached in the late 70s and early 80s. Or you can roll into your flex/motion stuff because you have bigs who can shoot and pass and what-not.

Everything that happens in the offense is coordinated to give all 5 players on the floor some kind of option. An option to cut, an option to screen, an option to shoot, an option to pass... usually, a crapload of options to pass and cut, since the offense emphasizes really solid teamwork and great balance. It's probably the prettiest halfcourt offense you'll find and when it's matched with decent exploitation of transition and secondary break opportunities, it becomes exceedingly difficult to stop.
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Post#23 » by teamjosh04 » Mon Jun 9, 2008 6:24 pm

I read that article about how the Cavs would be a great fit for the Triangle as well. I agree with it, imagine LeBron being able to work without the ball and cut through defenses. You would think he would be denied the ball as someone said, but it works so well with Kobe. You can't keep the ball out of a man who is 6 ft 8 in with the speed of an elite PG. If you wish to double him, the triangle will kill you. The triangle, if anything prevents the use of double teams since it has so many options.

LBJ and Z are great fits for it, Joe Smith would do alright with it as well, but they would have to get some better fits at guard and another passing big man. They have some big contracts to pull it off but nobody in the Cavs front office or coaching staff has experience with the triangle offense (or any offense in Mike Brown's case). Personally, I think that if the Cavs had ANY type of offense they would be better, the triangle fits the bill as any type of offense and if they stuck with it I think it would ultimately work great.

Just one question...Who other than PJ can coach the triangle offense that has the ability to run a NBA team?
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Post#24 » by tha_rock220 » Mon Jun 9, 2008 7:08 pm

LiquidFire wrote:How do you guys think the cavs could run the Triangle offense? (ignore the terrible coach)


LeBron doesn't post up well enough. I guess Big Z could do it with his passing. I just don't think they have the requisite offensive talent. LeBron could flourish if they did though. He could get a ton of weakside iso's and even do well in a misdirection if he was working the wing. If they had been able to get Gasol and a couple shooters by the trade deadline they would have had a perfect team for it. I don't know, I could be wrong.

Anyway to the OP. I'm pretty sure tsherkin covered it all, but in case he didn't it's a read and react offense. If your players have the brains and talent to run it what you have is your entire offense basically always on the same page(this is why the Lakers had so few turnovers during the 3Peat). Forming a triangle isn't limited to LA. Teams do it all the time. It's one of the most effective ways of getting the ball into the post. If a defender overplays one side to deny the ball then it can be swung to the corner for another passing angle. The offense you see from LA just goes a step further. It allows for weakside reversals, the post switching sides, a 2 man game, etc. Don't, however, go thinking the offense gets complex for complexity's sake. If the simplest method of getting a high percentage shot is an easy pass to the low post(ie to Shaq) then that's what you're going to see happen.
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Post#25 » by Cybulski37 » Mon Jun 9, 2008 7:40 pm

teamjosh04 wrote:I read that article about how the Cavs would be a great fit for the Triangle as well. I agree with it, imagine LeBron being able to work without the ball and cut through defenses. You would think he would be denied the ball as someone said, but it works so well with Kobe. You can't keep the ball out of a man who is 6 ft 8 in with the speed of an elite PG. If you wish to double him, the triangle will kill you. The triangle, if anything prevents the use of double teams since it has so many options.

LBJ and Z are great fits for it, Joe Smith would do alright with it as well, but they would have to get some better fits at guard and another passing big man. They have some big contracts to pull it off but nobody in the Cavs front office or coaching staff has experience with the triangle offense (or any offense in Mike Brown's case). Personally, I think that if the Cavs had ANY type of offense they would be better, the triangle fits the bill as any type of offense and if they stuck with it I think it would ultimately work great.

Just one question...Who other than PJ can coach the triangle offense that has the ability to run a NBA team?


I don't know if he has the head coaching experience to make it work, or if he even wants to do it, but if Tex Winters is the mastermind behind this triangle offense I think it would be beneficial to just throw a **** of money at him to become HC in cleveland. Even if it doesn't work out fully, you can get the system installed into the minds of the young players.
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Post#26 » by TDG26 » Mon Jun 9, 2008 9:02 pm

tha_rock220 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



LeBron doesn't post up well enough.


While this may be true now. He will never get better if you dont allow him to do it in games.

Just like how kobe is so good at making absolutely terrible shots go in. He had years of practice.
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Post#27 » by teamjosh04 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:20 pm

Cybulski37 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I don't know if he has the head coaching experience to make it work, or if he even wants to do it, but if Tex Winters is the mastermind behind this triangle offense I think it would be beneficial to just throw a **** of money at him to become HC in cleveland. Even if it doesn't work out fully, you can get the system installed into the minds of the young players.


Yea, there is no way of that happening. Tex is pushing 90 and he was only a head coach in the NBA for two seasons in the early 70s. Even for millions of dollars he'd probably still turn it down, he's content living out his life doing the same thing he has been doing forever. Plus, I think he'd be a big flop as a head coach. I mean, he's almost 90 years old! Maybe I should start my coaching career and install a triangle offense that rivals Phil's. I can coach the Cavs!


About LBJ's post game...

It isn't refined but still - he can post of wing players whenever he wants. I've seen him be affective in the post many times, the offense just isn't fit for him to do so right now. His game is tailor made for the post, he'll be one of the most effective players in the post in no time. Seriously, how many wing players are better than LBJ NOW in the post?
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Post#28 » by tsherkin » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:57 pm

LBJ's post game doesn't need to be refined, he needs to just back down until he can't get any closer and then make one of a couple of very basic, simple moves. He's used them all at one time or another; I think people underrate what he could do right away if he was just given the opportunity and TOLD to post more regularly. Since the triangle has a couple of good entries for that scenario, it'd do wonders for him.

Also, since as the three he'd still be the most dominant on-ball guy, he'd be in some great situations to get shots for everyone else but at the same time, because there are so many options for him to make a quick initiation pass and then a cut of some kind, he's also going to get a lot of easier looks, which will be beneficial to him in several ways.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#29 » by tsherkin » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:01 am

Hah, I'm dredging this back up.

Over at the RaptorsChat boards, there's a really great thread hidden somewhere in the coaching forum.

It links to this file, which is a fantastic visual rundown of the triple-post offense, with all manner of descriptions for the various entries into the offense, the basic passing options the triangle seeks, pressure releases, that sort of thing. It's even got some other neat stuff in there, like the Chinese national team's offense and what-not.

It goes over Tex's 7 principles, his passing principles, Line of Deployment, and continuity into the rest of the offense.

BorisD, the poster who's running all this stuff, expands a little on the contents of the document and uses some different diagrams to really bring out the nature of the triangle. Obviously, it's more complex than it appears there (there's a reason Tex's 5-hour DVD is $120, for example, or his antique book from his Bulls days is selling for about $300... though regular used copies run about $40, I grabbed one today) but you get the basic idea of the offense. You can check out Kloppenburg's stuff at HoopTactics for more information about how the players are taught to read-and-react to specific defensive scenarios. He does, however, go into some pretty sweet depth in these posts, so be prepared to look at the two-pass options and such while learning specific triangle lexicon material such as 'garden/freeze spots,' 'line/moment of truth' and the 'blind pig' entry action.

There are some other neat posts in there where he does the same thing with the Princeton Offense and the UCLA Motion Offense, so it's worth a read.

I thought now would be a good time to revisit this thread to reminisce and reflect upon what Boston's defense managed to do to L.A. in the Finals, why the offense broke down and the importance of having offensive players with testicles backing up your star so that if he decides to take contested 17-foot fadeaways, you don't collapse and give up 20+-point leads or get blown out in historic fashion.

That sounds like a lot of undue criticism of Kobe and the way it was written did that but the Celtics' defense forced the Lakers to work ball reversal action in order to get around their suffocating defense of Kobe Bryant and to establish tertiary and quaternary scoring threats... which they simply did not do with sufficient efficacy. Of even more import, the Lakers shot terribly from the line (note both Gasol and Odom shooting under 65% from the line) and they got smoked at both ends on the glass. They also did a terrible job defending the three.

But offensively, while Odom and Gasol both evidenced a good FG%, they failed to score in sufficient volumes and a lot of that was the fact that the Lakers didn't take good enough advantage of the pinch post action and ball reversal to effectively combat Boston's defensive tactics. The triangle broke down a lot and it wasn't because the defense was flawless and countered the triangle but because the Lakers weren't using the appropriate counters and had weak personnel.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#30 » by tsherkin » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:25 am

Just to highlight what I'm talking about...

Say the Lakers take dribble entry into the triangle, putting Kobe on the right elbow above the arc, Fisher/Farmar on the wing, Radman in the corner. Odom starts in the strongside post, then cuts up the foul line and makes a weakside cut while GasolOdom comes to fill the low post from the weakside (Lord knows it wouldn't go well with Radman in the low post and Odom doesn't like to play down there THAT often...).

Now they have their triangle and they can look to their "two pass," even though the entry pass ended up being a dribble move instead.

What the Lakers tried to do a lot was get Gasol the ball along the conventional line of deployment. When that didn't work, Kobe usually drove a bit, pulled up and took a fadeaway 17-footer. If they got the rebound, they reset like it was a set offense and sometimes tried to run the cut where Gasol cleared out to the corner and Kobe filled the post, then Gasol screened for Radman or Odom who went into the corner, then screened for Farmar/Fisher to take the wing slot and then made a weakside cut and downscreened for the player in the short corner to come up and take the weakside guard slot.

This scenario is but one of many, of course; there are a host of entries and two-passes and blah, blah, blah.

The important thing is this: when the Lakers' initial offensive option broke down because the Celtics played great D on Kobe, they failed to do what's SUPPOSED to happen next in the triangle system: reverse the ball effectively.

The weak side guard pass, the backdoor step to the 4 at the strongside elbow, neither of those were happening with regularity. Some of that was on account of the Celtics shading the passing lanes and swarming Kobe, who tended to shoot a lot (though he passed well enough all series that I don't want to overfocus on that). Some of it was the Lakers ignoring the post split option even as a continuity into resetting the triangle. They weren't using Gasol to hit the guard on the top of the circle for ball reversal all that often either (just to reinforce that this wasn't a Kobe problem, it was an L.A. problem as a whole unit).

Take the instance of the outside cut; you get the 1 in the corner, the 3 on the wing, the 2 at the top of the circle roughly in line with the elbow, the 5 in the strongside low block and the 4 in the short corner (baseline, weakside, off the block). That's your triangle. A nice ball reversal play that uses the 5 is the post split.

3 goes baseline after entering the ball to the 5 (either along the line of deployment or by giving it to 1 in the corner and having him use that passing angle), 1 makes a middle cut and 5 has the ball. He has the option to hit either guy, right? But if 3 and 1 are smothered by man defense as the Celtics were doing with Posey, Ray-Ray, Pierce and Rondo (at various times), then 5 has the iso option (depending on what his man does) or the option to reset up top, reversing the ball... which could lead into a host of different continuity action with the 2, the 4 and the 3... or the 1, if 3 fakes the mid cut then backscreens for the 1, who comes over into the middle that way.

Or... the Lakers could have run the 1 on the baseline from corner to corner, the 3 enters to the 5, 2 moves weakside to the garden spot on the weakside elbow, 4 pinches in to the freeze spot on the weakside block, then the 5 hits the 2 on the garden spot and bam, the ball is reversed and the triangle is reformed with the 4 in the low block, the 1 (who took a screen to get to the weakside corner) and the 2 (who's on the wing).

But the Lakers didn't make these kinds of motion within the offense with any regularity, they got caught up shooting threes, contested mid-range shots without ball reversal and other such fare. The weak ball reversal action denied them the pinch post, too, where Gasol excelled during the regular season.

That's his favorite spot, or seems to be. When the ball gets reversed to him there, he gets the pick-and-roll, open mid-range Js, face-up isos without the second defender waiting for him in the post and he also got a lot of alley-oops from Kobe, which were so plentiful earlier in the playoffs.

What else?

The Lakers were really stagnant; the triple-post offense is designed to be mostly in constant motion, with what are called "zone speed cuts" occurring on a regular basis. So you get stuff where the guy comes from the strongside corner along the baseline, takes a screen from the short corner guy in the freeze spot as the strongside wing player comes over the top and diagonally down through the key to screen for the short corner, who hits the high post on the strongside (all this after entry into the low block, strongside).

The 5's looking for the drop-pass to the 1 as he goes baseline, or to hit the 3 in the bottom of the circle for a short jumper or a pass to the strongside high post after the screen-the-screener action.

But the speed cuts weren't happening and the Lakers were letting their offense break down for lack of ball reversal and off-ball movement. They got stagnant... and it wasn't even the Celtics' defense so much as L.A.'s lack of energy; the options were there, that's the beauty of the offense, there are always options and continuities.

It didn't help that Fisher flamed out on the series, shooting under 41% from the field and about 19% from downtown or that Luke Walton vanished or that Sasha generally looked very bad, of course. The lack of made shots certainly hurt them a lot but key in this is that the Lakers were TAKING 20+ three-point attempts a game instead of getting better looks closer to the basket. There's a reason Boston got to the foul line an average of 3 more times per game.

L.A. got bogged down with quick 3s, iso's and resetting strongside.

Blech, that's not how the triangle is supposed to work!
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#31 » by penbeast0 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:44 pm

Actually Ben Wallace would be the equivalent of Dennis Rodman, LeBron would have the MJ role as the primary scorer (and yes, the Cavs offense already runs through him), and . . . Wally? . . . would play the Scottie Pippen role. Now I'm seeing a bit of a problem.

As for the rest, Boobie/Pavlovic would be fine as triangle points who don't need great distribution skills, Z fine at center, Sideshow Bob/Joe Smith ok off the bench, just need that All-NBA sidekick for LeBron . . . but that is true in any offense you run.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#32 » by tsherkin » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:48 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Actually Ben Wallace would be the equivalent of Dennis Rodman, LeBron would have the MJ role as the primary scorer (and yes, the Cavs offense already runs through him), and . . . Wally? . . . would play the Scottie Pippen role. Now I'm seeing a bit of a problem.

As for the rest, Boobie/Pavlovic would be fine as triangle points who don't need great distribution skills, Z fine at center, Sideshow Bob/Joe Smith ok off the bench, just need that All-NBA sidekick for LeBron . . . but that is true in any offense you run.


Yes, the triangle would work fine in Cleveland if they could find themselves a legitimate second scorer from the 2 spot. They've got the mid-range bigs, the rebounding, the dominant #1 option...

The triangle would kick Lebron into the post a lot more often, too, which would be a plus.

Seriously though, if I were Mike Brown, I'd take the ball OUT of Lebron's hands and use him as the screener in high sidescreens more often, so he could draw MORE fouls and get higher-percentage buckets. That'd be nasty. Do that, toss him into the post more, that's a great start right there.

The triangle would be a beautiful thing for Cleveland, though, and if they could find a second scorer... yikes.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#33 » by tsherkin » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:46 pm

Where else would it work? It'd probably do pretty well in Houston if they shuffled their roleplayers around; Yao would work out just fine in that offense and T-Mac would be ideal for it as well.

The Clippers could try it if Maggette wasn't so weak as a passer... if Thornton pans out and evidences more passing prowess, it'd work. Miami has one piece that might be interesting in the triangle in Wade. Detroit, at least as they look now, could probably run it because they have big guards and a lot of interchangeable offensive skills (bigs with range, guards who post, etc). Minnesota, like Miami, has one piece; they've got a big who could hold down the low post pretty well. They'd need to get a dangerous wing scorer with good passing skills (probably better than McCants, though if they draft Mayo and he pans out, that'd make it interesting). Likewise Orlando has Dwight, some shooters, some interchangeable pieces, all they'd need is for Hedo or Shard to be turned into a more dangerous scorer and to improve their play from the 1.

Phoenix could do it, for obvious reasons. You don't really NEED the big guard to be your dominant scorer if you've got a brutally dangerous 4/5 pair, some decent 2/3 players and an epic 1 like Nash.

Portland could pull it off if Oden is as good as his hype. Sacramento could do it in principle with Martin and Artest... and it'd even play into Artest having a bigger scoring role. He just needs to move the ball a little quicker and BOOM. If he goes to the Lakers, it'll be scary, especially with Phil working his head-magic on Ron-Ron.

San Antonio has the pieces and it might actually help them offensively. They got smoked by the Lakers in the WCFs, posting 88 ppg on under 43% FG. The big keys were that Manu looked awful (that injury really limited him) and Tim Duncan looked terrifically mortal shooting 42.6% FG while leading them in PPG. He rebounded, passed and defended like a monster but he shot 59% from the line and 42.6% from the field while taking just over 20 shots a game. The triangle would have emphasized the kind of movement that would have allowed him to sit back a little on those extra shot attempts, given him better spacing on the shots he did take, etc. With things going a little easier, he might have been more relaxed at the line.

Of course, having noted Duncan's shooting percentage, the rest of the team actually shot 42.6% FG as well. Finley shot 33% or so, Udoka was 3/8 inside the arc (and also 3/8 beyond the arc, which is a solid 37.5% 3P), Manu was 19/53 (just under 36% on 10.6 FGA/g)... They had offensive struggles and weren't using Barry, Bowen, Oberto or Kurt Thomas enough.

The triangle asks for 15 to 20 feet of space between the players for the most part and encourages continuity, fluid and unpredictable sets with a lot of different entries, good mid-range looks in and around the paint, near the rim and open threes...

I don't know if it'd have actually helped, given how gimped out Manu was and how epic Duncan failed at some of the really basic looks he was getting (like his FTs), but in principle, it's an offense that fits their lineup especially well. Finley and Manu would look really great because of their inside-out game, especially with Duncan holding down the post AND having the range to occasionally play sidescreen and pop instead of roll.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#34 » by jman3134 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:42 pm

I disagree on San Antonio. Why would you run the triangle on a team with the big 3 and a bunch of spot up shooters? They would be less effective at the Triangle than most teams because of their considerable age. Most of their guys simply shot the ball from the perimeter....which was why Barry and Finley looked pretty effective in the series. If they used the triangle, they would have to be in constant motion, not exactly the forte of older players. So, I sort of feel that Pop is tailoring his offense to the talents of his roster. Parker can't shoot from the perimeter, as exposed in the Spurs series with the Lakers. And in the Triangle, he would have to have a certain degree of outside shooting.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#35 » by 10scott10 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:19 pm

the triangle offense is based on three premises.
1. that you can get a ball to a certain place faster with a cut and pass, than with a dribble.

2. that if you get players shots they are comfortable with, they are more likely to make them.

3. Players can be taught to know when to make the proper pass or cut based on how the defense reacts.

that is what it is about.
it is an offense that relies on passing and cutting rather than dribble penetration. by rapdly passing the ball, the defense has to react, and this reaction will leave a spot open for an easy shot. A simple example is the drive and kick. often when the player on the perimeter gets the ball, they will pass it along the perimeter. while they are doing this, the defense is chasing the ball, not to where it is going, but to where it is. this creates open spaces in the defense. this is what the triangle is based on.

While it is easy to pass the ball, the real trick about the triangle is knowing which pass or cut to make, based on what the defense does. A player who did that on the lakers a lot (well not as much this year, but think back to last year) is luke walton. The ball is near the top of key, defense collapses. he cuts from the corner without the ball, and stops next to the basket. the center, being drawn to stop the ball where it currently is, leaves the area and opens space. make the right pass, and you have an easy lay-up or dunk.

that is the essence of the triangle. making cuts and passes to break down the defense and open spaces for easy shots.

the problem is that it can take players a long time, if ever to know when and where to they should cut or pass.

however, the triangle is very adaptable to different players on the court. that is beauty of it. it is not a series of set plays, but rather a way of think to get easy shots. if you have a big man who requires doubling, you use him to force the defense to collapse and open up space. even dribble penetration can be used in the offense to create spaces for shots. The triangle is an offense based on a simple philosophy, but can be implemented in innumerable ways based on the players that are in it.

many of the things that we think of being necessities of the triangle, are based on how phil Jackson implements it. he like a tall point guard. this isn't necessary for the offense, but he feels that they can make better passes by being able to see over shorter point guards.


as for teams other than the lakers that could run it well, i think that the jazz, the pistons, and the spurs could do well with it.


EDIT: and tsherkin, that is a great explanation of what went wrong with the during the finals. hats off to you
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#36 » by tkb » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:58 pm

Triangle was originally designed to let big men who could stick the mid range shot and make great passes excel, so I guess any team that has that kind of big with a decent cast around him (good passers and shooters).
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#37 » by RJM » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:49 am

I posted this a while back on the Laker Board.

**

Wikipedia -- The Triangle offense, also known as the Triple-Post offense, is an offensive strategy in basketball. Its basic ideas were initially established by Hall of Fame coach Sam Barry at the University of Southern California, and his system was later refined by former Kansas State University head basketball coach and former Los Angeles Lakers consultant Tex Winter, who played for Barry in the late 1940s.

The system's most important feature is the sideline triangle created between the center, who stands at the low post; the forward, at the wing, and the guard at the corner. The team's other guard stands at the top of the key and the weak-side forward is on the weak-side high post — together forming the "two-man game".

The goal of the offense is to fill those five spots, which creates good spacing between players and allows each one to pass to four teammates. Every pass and cut has a purpose and everything is dictated by the defense.

The offense starts when the ballhandler passes to the wing and cuts to the strong-side corner. The triangle is created from a post player on the strong-side block, the strong-side corner, and the extended strong-side wing, who gains possession on the first pass. The desired initial option in the offense is to pass to the strong-side post player on the block in good scoring position. From there the player has the options of looking to score or pass to one of the perimeter players whom are exchanging from strong-side corner and wing, a dive cut down the lane, or the opposite wing flashing to the top of the key which initiates another common option known as the "pinch post".

If a pass to the block is not possible, the second option is to either to pass to the weak-side guard who flashes top of the key from the weak-side wing position or passing to the strong-side corner. If the ball is passed to the corner the options are either shoot, pass to the strong-side block, or pick and pop with the wing. If it is passed to the weak-side guard it initiates the "pinch post" option. There are two options. The first and most common is to pass to the weak-side forward who flashes to the elbow (corner of the key at the free throw line) to receive the pass. When he does the options are a rub handoff, back door cut by guard without the ball, post up of the guard on a smaller player, or face up and attack. The second option is a pick and roll with the forward. The advantage to the first option is there are so many weapons to attack the defense it opens up a lot of freedom and ability to score effectively. The advantage on the second option is that the player who has the ball and uses the screen now has the entire side of the floor to work with to go one on one. Meanwhile, on the other side, the wing sets a screen for the corner guard on the triangle split. If the hand-off is not available, the forward or the guard can pass to the corner guard coming off the screen. If the defense overplays or expects the split, both the wing and the corner guard can back cut to the basket. During all of this time the original strong-side block player is able to establish position for an easy shot while the defender is lured by all of the movement and cutting by the other players.

If the strong-side wing-to-guard pass is not possible, the third option is for the weak-side forward to flash to the strong-side elbow, take the pass, and cut to the basket on the trademark backdoor play of the offense. Meanwhile, the wing and corner guard exchange on a down screen. The forward with the ball can pass to the cutting guard or to the corner guard coming off the wing's screen. If nothing's available, he can shoot the basketball himself.

The offense also has a variety of options if there's heavy pressure from the defense. If the initial wing-pass by the guard isn't available, the triangle can be created on the other side by passing to the other guard, who then passes to the weak-side forward (who then becomes the strong-side wing). The guard, who initially had the ball, then cuts to the other corner. The center or the pressured wing can flash to the opposite post.

If the guard-to-guard pass is not available, the weak-side forward can make a similar flash cut that was mentioned earlier. That also creates many cutting opportunities. If there is heavy pressure on everybody, the center can release the pressure by cutting to the high post for a pass by the ballhandling guard. That would also create space for possible cuts.

Most critics of the triangle offense cite its high level of difficulty and longer-than-average learning process.

Proponents argue that, when learned, the triangle becomes very natural and is structured so as to make sense. The guiding philosophy behind the offense is to pursue the path of least resistance.

Head coach Phil Jackson, with help from assistant coach Tex Winter, has utilized the triangle offense to great success. The Chicago Bulls under Jackson won six NBA titles in the 1990s playing in the triangle. Jackson's Los Angeles Lakers later won three championships employing the triangle.

NBA greats Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaquille O'Neal, and Kobe Bryant never won NBA championship titles before their teams adopted the triangle system (Shaquille O'Neal later won an NBA championship without the triangle offense in 2006 as captain of the Miami Heat). Other teams, such as the New Jersey Nets and Indiana Pacers, have adopted certain elements of the offense, but in NBA history, only teams coached by Phil Jackson have used the arsenal of the offense in its entirety. In addition to 9 championships, Jackson has won over 1000 total games during his Hall of Fame career (regular season victories and playoff victories combined) as an NBA head coach.

Winter has worked for Jackson as an assistant for all of Jackson's NBA head coaching career.

**

And now for play sets.

Offensive Basketball Play #1: TRIANGLE PRINCIPLES

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1
In the triangle offense 4 and 5 are the only players to play the post position. 1,2 and 3 are interchangeable at the various perimeter positions (point guard, strong-side wing, weak-side wing and corner position).

The shape of a triangle is formed on the ball side by the post player, the wing player and the corner man. The triangle can be formed on either the right or left side; it can be initiated by either a pass from the point guard to one of the wing men or by the point guard dribbling over to one of the wing positions.

Whichever player ends up with the ball in the strong-side wing position becomes the "trigger man" - what he does with the ball determines the offensive movement.

The offense begins with 4 and 5 located at the elbows and the two wing players on the lower blocks, as shown. When the point guard reaches the bottom of the mid-circle, 4 and 5 then downpick for 2 and 3 to get them open in the wing areas for a pass from 1, as shown in the diagram.

Image

2
Another way to begin the triangle is to have 1 dribble to either wing position with the wing player then v-cutting down to the corner position and the strong-side post player moving to the high-post elbow position, as shown here.

(We'll be showing only the wing pass entry in our play option examples, but all plays can also be initiated by the point guard dribbling over).

Image

3
Either of these two ways to begin the offense will result in the triangle being set up. In this example, where 1 has passed to 3 on the wing then cut through to the corner, the triangle is set on the right side with 3 on the wing as the trigger man, 1 in the corner and 5 in the ball-side high post area.

2 moves up to the point area for defensive protection and 4 moves out to the weak side wing area.

(All of the triangle offense options shown in the following pages can be run from either the right side or the left side - it doesn't matter which side the play begins on.)

Offensive Basketball Play #2: CIRCLE-OPTION

Image

1
When the trigger man calls out "CIRCLE" then the corner man knows to run quickly and "circle around" to the opposite side corner. In this example, 3 is the trigger man. Upon calling out "CIRCLE", 1 runs to the opposite corner leaving 3 and 4 alone on the left side.

("Circle" can also be called out by the point guard. In this case if the point guard calls "CIRCLE" and he then passes to the wing, he will then cut through to the basket and continue out to the opposite corner area. If the point guard instead dribbles to the wing then the wing man clears out to the opposite corner area.)

Image

This results in a 2 on 2 game. 4 then sets a screen on the baseline side of 3's defender, then rolls to the basket after setting the screen. 3 dribbles off the screen from 4 and can either look for his own shot or pass to 4 rolling to the basket.

1 and 5 look to CRASH the boards if a shot is taken. 2 stays at the point for defensive protection.

Offensive Basketball Play #3: C-OPTION

Image

The "C" option stands for Clear. When the trigger man, 2 in this example, calls this from the triangle position then 5 and 1 immediately and quickly go to the other side of the floor. They "clear-out" to the opposite side leaving 2 to take his man one-on-one to the basket.

(Remember, we must be good actors in basketball so 5 might act like he's screening for 4, and 4 might act like he's screening for 1, who could act like he's coming off the screen from 4 - you don't want to just turn and watch 2 with the ball because the defense will then quickly figure out the play).

If a shot is taken, 1, 4 and 5 CRASH the boards while 3 stays at the point for defensive protection.

("C" can also be called out by the point guard. In this case if the point guard passes to the wing then he cuts through to the basket and continues out to the opposite corner area. If the point guard dribbles to the wing then the wing man clears out to the opposite corner area.)

Image

2 takes his man one-on-one trying to get all the way to the basket.

If he can't beat his man then the triangle is reset, either on the same side or on the opposite side.

(Another option may be, instead of calling out "C" every time for this play would be to start the clear out play by calling out any color.)

Offensive Basketball Play #4: CORNER-OPTION

Image

The corner option begins as always with the two post men down-screening for the wing players. 2 & 3 come off the screens out to the their respective wing areas.

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1 passes to the open wing (who then becomes the "trigger" man). 5 steps up and sets a screen at the elbow for 1 who v-cuts off 5's screen looking for the pass from 2 for a layup. If 1 does not get the ball he v-cuts out to the corner area and 5 remains in the high post elbow area.

3 then replaces 1 at the point position and 4 goes out to the opposite wing area.

Image

Now the triangle offense is established on the right side with 5 in the high-post area, 1 in the corner, and 2 who is the trigger man with the ball - what he does next with the ball will dictate the appropriate offensive movement. 3 has now moved up to the point for defensive protection and 4 has moved out to the weak side wing area.

As previously described in the "Triangle Principles" section, this triangle can also be set up by having 1 dribble to the wing - now 1 becomes the trigger man - and 2 v-cuts down to the corner with 5 going to the high-post elbow area. If 1 is having difficulty passing to the wing, he has this option to dribble to either side to begin the offensive movement.

Image

The corner option then is where 2 passes to 1, 5 then steps up to set a screen on 2's defender, and 2 v-cuts off of 5's screen looking for the pass from 1 for a layup.

Image

If 2 does not get the ball he goes through the lane to the weak side where 4 and 3 are coming down to set a double screen on 2's defender.

5 then steps up to set a screen on 1's defender. 1 dribbles off the screen and has the following options: a) jump shoot, b) pass to 5 rolling to the basket after setting the screen, or c) pass to 2 inside the free throw line coming off the double screen from 4 and 3.

Image

4 and 3 must read what 1 decides to do. If 1, 2, or 5 get the shot then 4 and 3 must CRASH the boards. 2 or 1 must be sure to stay back for defensive protection.

Image

If neither 1, 2 nor 5 get the shot then 4 sets up at the high-post area, 3 moves out to the corner and 2 becomes the wing trigger man. 1 passes to 2 to set up the offense, then goes to the point for defensive protection. Now the triangle has been established on the left side of the floor to begin the offense again. The trigger man, 2, will now control the offensive movement by what he decides to do with the ball.

1 stays at the top of the key and 5 takes the weak side wing position.

Offensive Basketball Play #5: TRIANGLE POST-OPTION

Image

In this example 1 has passed to 3 then cut to the left corner, 4 has taken the high-post position so now the triangle is set up on the left side. 3 is the trigger man and decides to pass the ball to 4 at the high-post.

Image

4 pivots facing the basket in a triple threat position, then has various options: a) Pass to 2 at the basket for a layup, who has received a back-screen from 5 at the right elbow area. b) Jump shot or drive to the basket.

Image

If 2 does not get the pass he must then move out to a position out to the right of the lower block.

c) Pivot back around so your back is to the basket, then make the back-door pass to 1 for a layup who has v-cut to the baseline side. (2 must stay out to the right of the block area to keep his defender away from the basket).

Image

If 1 does not receive the pass from 4 then 1 continues on through the lane and looks for the double screen on the weak side from 2 and 5.

4 can then either: d) Pass back out to 3 on the wing who can then pass to 1 around the free throw line for the open shot, coming off the double screen from 2 and 5. Or.....

Image

e) Pass to 1 around the free throw line for the open shot (this may take too long and could result in a 5 second call, so the better option of d and e is probably going to be option d).

If a shot is taken all players except 3 should CRASH the boards. 3 must stay back for defensive protection.

Image

If this doesn't produce a shot then 1 can dribble over to the right wing area, 2 can break out to the corner area, 5 goes to the high-post area, 3 takes the defensive protection area at the top of the key and 4 slides out to the weak side wing.

Image

The triangle has now be re-established on the right side of the floor. 1 is now the trigger man - what he does with the ball will determine the offensive movement.

Offensive Basketball Play #6: REVERSE-OPTION

Image

In this example the triangle is set up on the right side. 2, the trigger man, reverses the ball to 3 who quickly passes to 4 on the weak side wing.

As 3 is beginning to pass to 4, 5 steps up to set a screen on 2's defender. 2 v-cuts and flashes across the lane looking for the pass from 4 and the shot.

If 2 shoots everyone except 3 CRASHES the boards. 3 stays back for defensive protection.

Image

If 2 doesn't get the ball he continues through the lane to the left side corner.

After screening for 2, 5 then sets a screen on 1's defender. 1 v-cuts across the lane looking for the pass from 4 and the shot.

If 1 shoots, everyone except 3 CRASHES the boards.

Image

If 1 is not open, then 4's final option is to pass to 5 who, after screening for 1, then rolls to the basket looking for the pass.

If 4 does pass to 1 and he is not open for a shot, then 1 has the option to pass to 5 who is rolling to the basket. If 5 does not get the pass he then stays inside looking to get good rebounding position.

http://www.basketball-drills-and-plays. ... fense.html

**

Make sense?
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#38 » by Rox_Nix_Nox » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:25 am

jesus christ people should get it by now.
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Re: How do you play the 'Triangle' offense? what teams are... 

Post#39 » by pillwenney » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:03 am

And yet ESPN's analysis extends to Mark Jackson saying "that's finding a way to get it done".

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